23 Replies Latest reply on Sep 19, 2012 6:49 PM by josephs51576386

    Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?

    Petrula Level 1

      CS6 Production Premium Suite

      Win7x64

      Canon XA10

       

      I shoot a continuous one hour talk.

      Using Windows Explorer, I copy the BDMV folder from the XA10 to my project folder.

      Using the Media Browser, I import the clip (which consists of multiple MTS files).

      On the imported clip, I use "New Sequence From Clip".

      I do not edit the sequence.

      I then "Render Entire Work Area".

       

      The rendering takes awhile. Why?

      I thought Premiere edits AVCHD as native so it should not have to render if no edits occur.

       

      Thanks in advance.

        • 2. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          It doesn't have to render.  So...why are you rendering?

          • 3. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
            Petrula Level 1

            According to the 1004369 Thread, spanned MTS files have a rendering issue.

             

            However, I also imported a non-spanned unedited MTS file (1080i, 12 minutes) and it also had a long render (over 4 minutes).

             

            Hence, it appears Premiere does not support native for AVCHD.

             

            Thanks

            • 4. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
              John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I edit AVCHD from a Canon Vixia using CS5... I do not have to render

              • 5. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                See this Red, yellow and green render bar article.

                Then have a look at which colour is your one.

                Then try playing back the Timeline without hitting 'Render Entire Work Area'.

                Then answer the question, why you are hitting 'Render Entire Work Area'.

                • 6. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                  josephs51576386 Level 3

                  If you use a clip joining program then the spanned clips issue is gone, and the spanned clips issue doesn't affect everyone. For me personally I've never experinced with my Sony footage from NX5U's. I never render anything unless it isn't playing back smoothly. Truthfully I can stack tons of 1080i AVCHD with color correction/scaling and keyframming and not require any rendering. So I don't know why you're exprecing the issue you're experincing.

                   

                  When you try to playback the video does it playback smoothly or not? (Before rendering)

                  • 7. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    spanned MTS files have a rendering issue.

                     

                    That's not quite accurate.  Some spanned media will have difficulty in CS6, where even simple playback is problematic.  The solution is NOT to render.  The solution is to use an older version like CS5.5, or to convert the media to something else before you import it into CS6.

                    • 8. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                      Petrula Level 1

                      Span and non-span clips playback fine without rendering.

                      Rendering makes them playback even smoother.

                       

                      I first notice something was fishy when rendering a sequence with only a single transition. It took a long time to render. So I then rendered an unedited sequence which should have rendered instantly since AVCHD is supposedly native. It also took a long time to render so AVCHD did not appear to be native as advertised.

                       

                      Moreover, my understanding is that the Adobe Media Encoder first renders before encoding. So rendering before using AME would help AME since it would see the sequence was already rendered. And rendering should make playback smoother so why not render. Unfortunately, Premiere seems thinks AVCHD is not native so renders every frame.

                       

                      If I merge the MTS files for a continuous talk, do merge programs change the CPI, MTS, MPL, index.bdmv, and MovieObject.bdmv files to reflect the change? Will I lose metadata about time/date codes, etc.?

                      • 9. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        There's a lot of misinformation there.

                         

                        How long it takes to render has NOTHING to do with whether or not you're editing native media.  That is determined solely by what you import.  If you convert before import, it's not native.  If you don't convert, it is.

                         

                        Rendering before an export can speed up the export process in some cases, but once you combine the render times with the export times, it works out to about the same anyway, so you don't always save time.  Rendering first typically has the added drawback of adding another layer of compression to the chain, which is best avoided whenever possible.  So unless you really know what you're doing here, general counsel is not to render.

                         

                        If you merge the clips outside of PP, you will lose metadata.

                        • 10. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                          josephs51576386 Level 3

                          Like I mentioned in the other thread you created: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4705784#4705784

                          If you merge the clips outside Premiere you will lose your metadata information. Because it then makes the clip seperate from it's AVCHD folder structure.

                          • 11. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                            Stephen_Spider Level 3

                            From Fuzzy_Barsik's  earlier link...

                             

                            Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration:

                            • yellow: The source media’s codec is computationally difficult (such as AVCHD). As mentioned above, only very few simple codecs don’t get a yellow bar; these include DV and DVCPRO.
                            • yellow: The settings of the clip (e.g., pixel aspect ratio, frame rate, field settings) don’t match the settings for the sequence.
                            • yellow: A CUDA-accelerated video effect or transition has been applied to the clip. (A CUDA-accelerated video transition only causes a yellow bar over the duration of the transition.)
                            • red: A non-CUDA-accelerated video effect or transition has been applied to the clip. (A non-CUDA-accelerated video transition only causes a red bar over the duration of the transition.)

                            Mercury Playback Engine Software Only:

                            • yellow: The source media’s codec is computationally difficult (such as AVCHD). As mentioned above, only very few simple codecs don’t get a yellow bar; these include DV and DVCPRO.
                            • red: The settings of the clip (e.g., pixel aspect ratio, frame rate, field settings) don’t match the settings for the sequence.
                            • red: Any video effect or transition has been applied to the clip. (A video transition only causes a red bar over the duration of the transition.)
                            • 12. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                              Petrula Level 1

                              Jim - I appreciate your feedback in clarifying what rendering is doing.

                               

                              To begin with, I assume native means

                               

                              "There’s no platform-specific rewrapping of camera files. No time-consuming transcoding. No quality-compromising recompression. No space-hogging intermediate files. No need to purchase and install third-party codecs. No excuses, no reasons to turn down work, no more coffee breaks - c’mon, we can’t have everything."

                              Native Format Editing in Adobe Premiere Pro

                              Colin Brougham, 5/15/2011

                               

                              Bottom line is that native means you can immediately edit after importing (linking).

                               

                              I assume "rendering" means process any transitions, effects, etc. so they play back quickly, and are also ready for encoding with Adobe Media Encoder (AME).

                               

                              If I import a clip, and then place it in a sequence using "New Sequence From Clip", there are no transition, effects, etc.. Hence, it is unclear to me why rendering the entire sequence should take a long time. What is Premiere doing and why? Thanks in advance.

                              • 13. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                josephs51576386 Level 3

                                Does it not playback correctly when you attempt to playback before rendering?

                                • 14. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                  Petrula Level 1

                                  It plays back much smoother after rendering.

                                  • 15. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                    Keith_Clark Level 2

                                    Petrula wrote:

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    If I import a clip, and then place it in a sequence using "New Sequence From Clip", there are no transition, effects, etc.. Hence, it is unclear to me why rendering the entire sequence should take a long time. What is Premiere doing and why? Thanks in advance.

                                    because to "render" you are basically transcoding/exporting in the background. it is "exporting" your avchd to either mpeg,avi, or whatever your render codec is. you dont "have" to render. you are just simply choosing to do so, and adobe is obliging that request, by exporting on the fly in the background to a less compressed codec. so it takes, however long it takes with your PC, to 'export' your clip to that codec

                                    • 16. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                      Petrula Level 1

                                      If one creates the sequence using "New Sequence From Clip", why is it exporting to mpeg or avi instead of using the codec for the MTS file.

                                       

                                      Where does one set which transcoding/exporting codec (format) the renderer uses.

                                       

                                      Thanks for the feedback.

                                      • 17. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                        Keith_Clark Level 2

                                        Petrula wrote:

                                         

                                        If one creates the sequence using "New Sequence From Clip", why is it exporting to mpeg or avi instead of using the codec for the MTS file.

                                         

                                        Where does one set which transcoding/exporting codec (format) the renderer uses.

                                         

                                        Thanks for the feedback.

                                        *usually* because if your PC can not handle the native footage, one would want to be able to edit a preview fluidly, so one renders it to a less CPU intensive codec to preview fluidly (avi, mpeg, the other one i can never remember xdcam? i can't remember the other choice it gives you) and if your PC can handle the native clips, but stacking on 35 effects bogs it down, one would render out the clip to get fluid playback. rendering is all about fluid playback while editing. but as JIm stated, if you don't need to, don't. there's no reason or point. if you do need to, just realize it is converting it to another codec in the background, that may or may not be compliant with your chosen export method.

                                        • 18. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                          Bottom line is that native means you can immediately edit after importing (linking).

                                           

                                          Not quite.  It simply means what I stated earlier, no conversion before (or during) import.  There are things PP needs to do with the media (PEK files, conforming audio, indexing mpeg assets) that take time and it's best if you wait for that to complete before you begin editing.

                                           

                                           

                                          I assume "rendering" means process any transitions, effects, etc. so they play back quickly, and are also ready for encoding with Adobe Media Encoder (AME).

                                           

                                          Again, not quite.  Rendering is typically used to mean the creation of a new frame based on the composite of all elements in the sequence, including effects, titles, transitions, etc.  For most sequences, that new frame also gets transcoded into a new compressed format.  That second step, the transcoding, is what takes so long and is something you generally want to avoid.  That's why general advice is to only render if you absolutely have to for real time playback, but even then you often won't be using that render for export.

                                          • 19. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                            It plays back much smoother after rendering.

                                             

                                            Then you need better hardware to work with this media.  An Intel i7 processor and at least 8GB of RAM.

                                            • 20. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                              I shoot a continuous one hour talk.

                                               

                                              OK, I just caught this.

                                               

                                              CS6 does have a bug when it comes to playback of longer AVCHD clips.  Your options are two:  Use an older version like CS5.5, or transcode outside of PP before you import the media.  Sorry I didn't catch that sooner.

                                              • 21. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                                Petrula Level 1

                                                Jim - Your response was very helpful. Please see if I have this right.

                                                 

                                                By "no conversion before (or during) import", you mean no transcoding occurs during import. However, "PEK files, conforming audio, indexing mpeg assets" still occur.

                                                 

                                                I should only use "Render Effects in Work Area" to speed up playback if necessary i.e playback of effects is uneven.

                                                 

                                                I should avoid using "Render Entire Work Area" because unless the transcoding Premiere uses just happens to be the same transcoding used by Adobe Media Encoder (AME) for a given queued transcoding, the preview rendering will not be used by AME.

                                                • 22. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                  Close enough.

                                                  • 23. Re: Why Does Premiere CS6 Render AVCHD?
                                                    josephs51576386 Level 3

                                                    The only ways you can avoid the bug with long clips, is to either transcode, or use a earlier version of Premiere. There is however a third option which has worked for a few people I have spoken with. One of them being from this forum.

                                                    The MTS merge program which i have told you about will merge the files for you, which  means that it will basically fix the bug (in some cases) for people who experince issues with longer AVCHD files/spanned media. Because you'll be pulling in media that is joined together already, however this does cause you to lose metadata. But honestly to me it's worth the trade. However this fact is different for everyone, because everyone's work flow is slightly different.