23 Replies Latest reply on Dec 15, 2012 8:02 AM by KlausKi

    Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories

    KlausKi Level 1

      Hi there,

       

      I have been trying to post this improvement suggestion by filling-in the corresponding form but it didn't allow me enough characters to describe it correctly. So I am posting it here now and going to reference it in the Improvement Suggestion form...

       


      Currently it's hard to perform a good edit because Adobe Premiere Pro doesn't provide a clip basket showing all available clips running, allowing the user to preview and choose from different takes of the same scene.

       

      I'd like to suggest to animate all movie clips in all repositories, like Media Browser and Project panels, in order to create kind of an animated lightbox.

       

      These clips should be run without audio, in low resolution and, optionally, at a lower framerate, depending on the machine's capabilities and user's preferences.

       

       

      Clicking (and thereby activating) one of those movie clips should ...

      • magnify that clip,
      • enable audio for that clip,
      • display a timeline,
      • and display an in-point and an out-point marker.

       

      Using these markers, the user shall be able to limit the preview loop of the clip in that particular repository (e.g. to repetitively monitor only a small scene of the movie clip).

       


      Here's a link to a small movie clip demonstrating the improvement suggestion as a virtual live demonstration:

       

       

       

      (While recording I was suffering from a tonsillitis, so the text might be hard to understand from time to time.)

        • 1. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
          shooternz Level 6

          Does Hover Play not work for you in the Project Panel?

          • 2. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
            KlausKi Level 1

            Not at all, as you can see from the video.

             

            With Hover Play ...

             

            1. the user can play only a single clip at once
            2. transport is much too coarse for long clips

             

            I once had recorded a scene using 8 different takes. Comparing them to decide which one to use or experimenting with them so see which part of a clip to take or where to cut wisely only by using Hover Play seems impossible to me. - Until today I didn't finish editing of that movie.

             

            At another occasion I have been editing a road trip, searching for ages to find appropriate inserts to use. - Having all of the clips in the repository play repetitively would have been a great help, providing inspiration by playing clips I would never have browsed intentionally.

            • 3. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
              shooternz Level 6

              I see what you mean.

               

              Personally I can only look at one video at a time .

               

              I would need to install a faster processor in my head to cope with an array of videos!

              • 4. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                Personally, I love the idea. Please request it and include a link to your video. Here's the feature request form: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                • 5. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                  KlausKi Level 1

                  Thanks, Kevin. I did.

                   

                  I hope the others will like this idea, too.

                  • 6. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                    KlausKi Level 1

                    After carrying this thought with me around for a while I'd like to add an update to my original suggestion:

                     

                    1. When comparing different takes (= clips) of the same recorded live scenes, the usual editing process while working with Premiere Pro would be to drill down on the take that's supposed to be inserted into the sequence. So if there were 8 takes of the same scene, first there would be 8 clips to compare, then 7, 6, 5, 4... until the final clip is found.

                      In the course of the comparison process it would be very helpful to be able to "switch off" those takes that have been decided not to be used. So I'd like to update my suggestion to provide the following additional features:

                      Each preview clip should provide a play/pause feature. So playback shall be switched on and off individually for each of the preview clips.

                      As mentioned in my original suggestion, when activated (zoomed), the preview should provide buttons for manipulating that clip preview's playback. Originally I suggested a Play Audio button (with a speaker symbol).

                      I now, additionally, suggest to add a Play/Pause button to an activated (zoomed) clip preview. If playback is active, that button should display a Pause icon. If playback is paused, the same button should display a Play icon.

                      Given that, an active preview would be displayed something like this:
                      Play'n'pause on preview.png
                    2. After a clip has been selected for an insert, the next editing step would be to search a clip from the repository for the next insertion into the sequence. So all tracks would be back in the game.

                      So there should be a new menu item, resuming playback of all preview clips in the repository: "Edit > Preview > Play all clips".
                    3. If the user wants to concentrate on the Program Montitor video, he/she should be able to pause all preview clips. So I suggest the should be a new menu item complementing the previous one: "Edit > Preview > Pause all clips".
                    4. Some people might prefer not to see any animation in the repositories at all. For them there should be a new option available in Premiere Preferences to pause all preview clips by default (this setting would equal to the current behaviour).
                    5. The user might want to concentrate on a single preview clip and just want to have this single clip being played back when activated (zoomed).

                      So I suggest there should also be a Solo option available.

                      By holding the [CTRL] key down while clicking the Play/Pause button suggested in provision #1, all preview clips should be paused and the currently active (zoomed) preview clip should be played back alone.

                     

                    In my suggestion I have been focussing on using Premiere Pro with the mouse. But there should be keyboard shortcuts available for all these actions, too.

                    • 7. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                      Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                      This is a very cool idea.

                       

                      Not to throw a wrench into the works, but I am a little concerned about what happens if I have 100 clips in my project panel. Does Premiere Pro have to read the information for all 100 clips at one time from my hard drive? If so, I am going to have to replace my RAID0 with what? Something with tremendous throughput I imagine.

                       

                      My guess is that you would want to select the clips that are going to play in the browser or panel. That could be annoying. So, perhaps we limit it to the visible clips with the maximum number of clips playing determined in the Preferences menu?

                      • 8. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                        KlausKi Level 1

                        Hi Steven,

                         

                        you are right, absolutely yes. It doesn't make sense to have all of a repository's clips animated all the time.

                         

                        It wouldn't make any sense for Premiere Pro to animate preview clips not being visible to the user. So I guess the programmers of Premiere were presumably going to constrain playback to clips visible to the user's eye.

                         

                        In my current resolution (1920*1200) using the standard Edit workspace, I can see about six clips in the Project panel. Plus one from the Media Browser. So I guess that's the usual number of animated clips the user's machine has to deal with.

                         

                        But if the user would maximize the Project panel in order to be able to browse all the clips, then he/she would want to see them all animated. That's why he/she's been maximizing the Project panel. The user's machine should be able to deal with this.

                         

                        In my first posting I wrote that Premiere Pro should individually reduce playback resolution and frame rate according to the user machine's hardware capabilities. So the user's machine will never get bogged down by playing preview clips. If the user machine's capabilities are insufficient, then Premiere Pro should automatically switch off preview clip playback and disable the corresponding option I suggested in my update (item #4).

                         

                        YouTube is a great example of having a number of animated clips visible at the same time (using Adobe Flash). I believe, if they can (by using Adobe technology), then Adobe can do, too.

                         

                        Cheers,

                        Axel

                        • 9. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                          I understand wjay you are saying, but I have to assume that Premiere Pro would have to read all of the clips off of the hard drive, and then play them back once the video has been put in some sort of cache.  If the clips are pretty long it could get to be a memory issue. And if we are talking about RED footage, it could get very interesting very quickly.

                           

                          It isn't the playback I am worried about. It is reading the file in the first place., and finding a place to put the low resolution video.

                           

                          Nonetheless, I think it would be a worthwhile use of the Adobe Engineering team's time to see if this can be done effectively.

                          • 10. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            I think it would be a worthwhile use of the Adobe Engineering team's time to see if this can be done effectively.

                             

                            I disagree.  It's been the standard method of working for a century at least that you watch one take at a time and use the one you like best.  I think we'd be better off if Adobe spent their limited resources on other things, like fully integrated Dynamic Link with SpeedGrade for one.  Making all effects and transitions GPU accelerated for another.  Moving away from CUDA towards OpenCL on many more cards from both companies for a third.

                             

                            Besides, you can already achieve this in a manner by simply using the multicam monitor.

                            • 11. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                              KlausKi Level 1

                              Jim Simon wrote:

                               

                              I think we'd be better off if Adobe spent their limited resources on other things, like fully integrated Dynamic Link with SpeedGrade for one.  Making all effects and transitions GPU accelerated for another.  Moving away from CUDA towards OpenCL on many more cards from both companies for a third.

                               

                              So I understand you are using SpeedGrade a lot and would like to have integration into Premiere Pro improved. And you would also like to have all effects and transitions GUP accelerated. - Agreed, I'd like to have these features, too. Why don't you believe developers at Adobe might be able to handle all these requests in a timely manner?

                               

                              Jim Simon wrote:

                               

                              Besides, you can already achieve this in a manner by simply using the multicam monitor.

                               

                              Good point. But the MultiCam monitor does not allow for running clips independently from each other. So different takes can not be compared using it. And finding a good insertion (from a completely different clip) can not be done using the MultiCam monitor. Wouldn't you agree?

                               

                              Jim Simon wrote:

                              It's been the standard method of working for a century at least that you watch one take at a time and use the one you like best.

                               

                              I don't see your point here. - You presumably will agree that typesetting was done using cast metal sorts as a standard method of working for more than a century. And I guess you would also agree that this standard way of working has been overcome by now. So why would you want to keep obsolete standards up high?

                              • 12. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                Why don't you believe developers at Adobe might be able to handle all these requests in a timely manner?

                                 

                                Past experience.  The improvements I mention are likely to require a LOT of time and resources.  So is this new feature you want.  Call me cynical, but I just don't have the feeling Adobe could do it all in the next cycle.

                                 

                                 

                                the MultiCam monitor does not allow for running clips independently from each other.

                                 

                                No, but that's what the Source Monitor is for.  Your call was to see them all at the same time. That can be achieved.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                So why would you want to keep obsolete standards up high?

                                 

                                Only because I find other improvements far more important and more useful to the masses.  I think for most folks, we'd still need to see the takes one at a time to truly get a sense of which is the overall best take.  (Not to mention that a director will often make that call on set, so you already know going in which take you're going to use.)

                                • 13. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                  Felix CL Level 3

                                  I am with Jim here a lot.

                                  I do think, this would be a nice feature but

                                  I don't see many occasions, this would be used -by me-.

                                  To me it's much more important, how a clip works with the edit, the clip before and the clip, it leads to, than how it compares to the other takes...

                                  Also, most of the times, the best take(s) have been called before editing but often a previously marked "bad take" offers itself to you in the process of editing as the best choice re: emotion/pace/move , since on set it's often more about performance/mood/mood of the director ;-)

                                  But only in context and not in comparison.

                                  At least that's how i work most of the time. Doesn't mean, i can't see that this could be a neat idea for many editors.

                                  But what would you compare with simultaneous playback of source material?

                                  Timing, yes. But that is something, one develops a feeling for over the time.

                                  Or are there uses for this feature, i missed or haven't thought of yet?

                                  Greetings,

                                  felix

                                  --

                                  ...and keep smiling

                                  • 14. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                    Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                    Well, to be absolutely honest, I think the problems getting it to work smoothly outweigh the benefits. When I wrote the following I was trying to be polite since I had poked holes in the idea a little.

                                     

                                    Nonetheless, I think it would be a worthwhile use of the Adobe Engineering team's time to see if this can be done effectively.

                                     

                                    I think that Multicam is the right way to find the best clips. You run through the clips in groups of four, finding the best in each group and then put the winners together to find the best. I doubt that I could watch more than four at a time. I would find it hard to believe that too many people could watch more than four at a time. Some, I am sure, but that isn't enough to expend engineering resources.

                                    • 15. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                      You run through the clips in groups of four

                                       

                                      In CS6, you can run through as many takes as your system can handle.  No more artificial 4 clip limit.

                                      • 16. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                        Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                        Oh. Cool. I still probably can't watch more than four at a time.

                                        • 17. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                          Yeah, that sort of jives with one of the points I was trying to make, that most editors will probably have to watch one at a time anyway to really get a sense of which take is the best.

                                          • 18. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                            Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                            Right!

                                             

                                            I imagine that Multicam would save a lot of time getting rid of all of the obvious negative choices in a hurry and then spend the time to watch all of the potential candidates one at a time.

                                             

                                            Personally, I pretty much know when I capture the video if it is going to make the cut or not. Same with importing files. I watch them one at a time and delete the "bad" shots. Anything left over is a potential winner and really has to be given a real chance against the others in a fair competition, which means one at a ime they get my full attention.

                                             

                                            The exception is when I am choosing colors. I have more trouble with colors so I need to see them side by side.

                                             

                                            Now, if I were a professional editor and had assistant editors providing me with potential candidates, I might need to find the fastest way to make choices.

                                            • 19. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                              KlausKi Level 1

                                              I see you're all taking different workflows than I do.

                                               

                                              To explain a little bit about how I came to this idea: I'm (privately) producing travel movies. I don't know what to expect at the time of rolling the cam, so I'm just keeping the camera running almost all the time. Later then, I'm trying to create a catching short documentary movie from it. The creative part takes place only in Premiere Pro, not before. I need a light box in order so see what I caught and to get inspired from what's running. At least that's how I'm working.

                                              • 20. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                                Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                                Yes, that is different.

                                                 

                                                When I shoot HDV to tape, I  sit back in my easy chair, sometimes with an adult beverage, and watch the tapes on my HDTV right out of the camera's Component port.  I keep a notepad handy and jot down approximate timecode so I can easily go back and capture just what I will actually have any liklihood whatsoever of using. If there is even a slight chance, I jot it down.

                                                 

                                                Shooting to a memory card is different. For that Iscrub through it quickly on the PC quickly and delete everything I won't possibly use. In other words, the exact opposite procedure.

                                                 

                                                When I travel, I have to modify the procedure for tape. I find a comfortable place to sit, and set my tripod up so that the camera's LCD screen is less than an arms length from my face. Then I get out the notepad again. Or, sometimes I end up in a hotel room with a TV that has component inputs.  If a TV is not available because I am not anywhere close to a hotel (which happens less and less as I get older) I just capture it all into my laptop, clip by clip, deleting anything I regret capturing.

                                                 

                                                I find it easier to go through the footage in the evening after a shoot rather than wait until I get back and forget exactly why I shot something, or where I was, or whatever.

                                                 

                                                The point being that I watch all of it. I certainly fast forward now and then, but I can still see what was recorded.

                                                 

                                                When importing files, scrubbing through is a lot faster, but I still see every clip.

                                                 

                                                So what I am saying is that much of my creative process happens well before Premiere Pro. I already have the basic idea of what I want to do before I create a project. I am not saying the footage never takes me in a different direction, just that I shoot with a premise in mind, I capture with a revised premise based on what I was able to shoot, and I edit fairly close to the premise I used to capture.

                                                • 21. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                  I don't know what to expect at the time of rolling the cam, so I'm just keeping the camera running almost all the time. Later then, I'm trying to create a catching short documentary movie from it.

                                                   

                                                  I don't see how that necessitates seeing all the clips at the same time (or even accommodates it).  These are not many takes of the same thing.  These are all individual shots that would require culling one at a time - the normal work flow.

                                                  • 22. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                                    KlausKi Level 1

                                                    Thanks Jim, I'll have a look at it.

                                                    • 23. Re: Improvement Suggestion: Add Animation to Movie Clips in Repositories
                                                      KlausKi Level 1

                                                      Just checked Prelude...

                                                       

                                                      Same situation there. So I suggest my suggestions should be applied to both.