23 Replies Latest reply on Sep 26, 2012 10:56 AM by SteveC100

    Uneven Font Display

    SteveC100 Level 1

      I just moved from an older Macbook Pro to a new one, and I just installed ID 5.5 (and Acrobat X) on the new machine.

       

      First impression -- great. Everything came over, and old files look good ... except ...

       

      I'm seeing that body text in a book that I'm responsible for looks really strange. The font is Baskerville and the text in ID looks like this:

       

      funhouse mirror in In Design.png

      The same text in a pdf I made previously, looks like this in Acrobat:

       

      acrobat.png

       

      If I copy the text and paste it into Word, it also looks fine (displayed in Baskerville). And if I print the page, the printed version looks okay, too.

       

      Anybody have any idea what might be causing this?

       

      Many thanks in advance --

      Steve

        • 1. Re: Uneven Font Display
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          You are not the first person to report this. My recollection is it tends to be font-specific, but make sure your dispaly settings are set to High Quality Display.

          • 2. Re: Uneven Font Display
            Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            I see this quite often... in Adobe Song.

             

            I recall that the generic explanation for why this happens (but only in a few cases for a few people) was "poor hinting". And I also recall, with less confidence, that the fix suggested was "go grab your old Baskerville off of your old Mac."

            • 3. Re: Uneven Font Display
              SteveC100 Level 1

              Thanks guys. Peter -- I am already set to High Quality display. Joel -- "hinting" sounds like a good clue.

               

              This is what I did:

              1. Uninstall CS 4 and CS 5.5 from old machine (under Snow Leopard)

              2. Use Migration Assistant to move all user files and Mac apps.

              3. On the new machine (under Mountain Lion), install Dreamweaver  from CS 4, and ID & Acrobat from CS 5.5. (I have CS6 Production Premium, which I have not yet installed, but I'll get Photoshop & Illustrator from that package).

               

              The font in question is Baskerville and I checked it in Font Book and don't see any warnings. It displays okay there. Also, keep in mind that it's the same font, file and version of ID on both machines.

               

              So ...

              How do I move a single font from one machine to another? Drag it?

              Should I try installing the whole CS5.5 package? I don't need all the apps.

              Anything else I should try?

               

              Thanks again for the quick responses, guys,

              Steve

              • 4. Re: Uneven Font Display
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                It's probably not related, but as a general principle Adobe apps don't do well with migrating. They should be reinstalled from the original media/download.

                • 5. Re: Uneven Font Display
                  Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I'm 90% sure that Baskerville comes with Mac OS. That means that Apple (or Apple's font supplier?) changed something about the hinting in Baskerville between versions of Mac OS. Apple makes minor changes in some fonts at pretty much every release of Mac OS.

                   

                  And there's something about the changes this time that give InDesign a headache. This is unsurprising because Adobe doesn't rely on the host OS to render fonts, it has its own font-rendering system built into ID. So checking it in Font Book and finding that it's fine there doesn't actually tell you that it will work with all Adobe apps. For what it's worth, InDesign is pickier about fonts than most garden-variety applications.

                   

                  When I needed to move fonts from my old Mini to my new MBP, that's just what I did - I dragged fonts from one machine's Fonts folder and dropped 'em in the other machine.

                   

                  I feel pretty sure that reinstalls of Adobe apps won't affect this issue at all. Your migration regime sounds perfect, but oughtn't affect this font issue, either.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Uneven Font Display
                    SteveC100 Level 1

                    Peter,

                     

                    Yes, I understand. That's why in uninstalled everything first and then reinstalled from the Adobe DVDs.

                     

                    What should I try? I don't think I can work with the display the way it is.

                     

                    Steve

                    • 7. Re: Uneven Font Display
                      SteveC100 Level 1

                      Okay, Joel -- I'll try dragging and get back to you.

                       

                      Many thanks,

                      Steve

                      • 8. Re: Uneven Font Display
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Sorry, you did say that, and I jst didn't catch it the first time through. Migrating Mac apps does not equal migrating all apps....

                        • 9. Re: Uneven Font Display
                          SteveC100 Level 1

                          Joel, Peter,

                           

                          Okay, we have success, sort of.

                           

                          I replaced the font two ways -- by dragging, and by using Font Book on both machines to remove, export and install. That didn't seem to make any difference.

                           

                          Either way, the font from the old machine solves the problem -- no uneven display.

                           

                          But -- Font Book really doesn't want to install the font. I got two warnings that it was corrupted -- the main one is below. In font book, the font family shows a normal preview, but each of the fonts within show simulated "arabic" character instead of an actual preview (2nd image below).

                           

                          Any idea what I should do? Word and ID seem able to use it and it solves the problem. Maybe I've got a bad copy of the Mountain Lion version. Should I try to find a new one? It's a true type font with a creation date in June 2012 (Baskerville.ttc).

                           

                          Steve

                           

                          font book warning.png

                           

                           

                          arabic font display in font book.png

                          • 10. Re: Uneven Font Display
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            I'm a windows user, so I'll stay out of this part....

                            • 11. Re: Uneven Font Display
                              SteveC100 Level 1

                              I should add that the font validates fine on Snow Leopard.

                              • 12. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Well, I don't have any solutions for you, but I can suggest an experiment to try.

                                 

                                I don't know how well it will work with your workflow, so be cautious. I have a few fonts like this - mostly for languages like Khmer or Burmese - that work fine everywhere but in ID. So I have slightly-edited versions of some of these fonts, that work okay in ID but cause Font Book (or Word, or whatever) to freak out. So I install the font twice.

                                 

                                Now, this is is generally bad InDesign practice - having the same font installed in multiple locations can cause problems, hence my advice that you use caution. I've not tested this plan at all, so you should before you rely on it.

                                 

                                Whatever changes were made between Baskervilles are obviously required for Mountain Lion. I am 99% sure that you do not have a corrupt version of Baskerville in Mountain Lion. Like I said, Apple make these little changes all the time.

                                 

                                Use the InDesign fonts folder - if you dig into the InDesign folder in Applications, you'll see a "Fonts" folder. InDesign can use fonts in this folder, but no other application can use these fonts. So keep the version of Baskerville that came with Mountain Lion installed in /Library/Fonts, or wherever Font Book keeps it (???), and drop the old Snow Leopard version of the font into /Applications/something/InDesign/Fonts.

                                 

                                This might work, but I've not tested it at all (I have a MBP at home, but my workplace is pretty much a Microsoft shop, the newest Mac we have is a mirror-door G4). So test this carefully before relying on it, if my two-fonts-installed dodge works at all. I've crossed my fingers for you...

                                • 13. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                  SteveC100 Level 1

                                  Joel,

                                  You da MAN! That worked. I now have the old font in the In Design/Fonts folder and the new font in Font Book -- and all looks good in ID.

                                   

                                  Thus I assume that if a font exists in both places, ID uses the one in the application folder over the one in the system.

                                   

                                  Should I log a bug somewhere with Adobe?

                                   

                                  Thanks again --

                                  Steve

                                  • 14. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                    Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Should I log a bug somewhere with Adobe?

                                     

                                    That's the community-minded thing to do.

                                     

                                    I suggest you insert a link to this thread, because if I were in charge of generic bug-sorting I'd say "Oh, that is a problem with Baskerville, not with ID" and round-file the bug report. But I am going to resubmit my bug, too, which is a problem with one of the Chinese fonts that is packaged with InDesign (!!!), and so maybe if we both submit the bug at the same time it will stand a better chance of being looked at by someone who can do something about it.

                                    Thus I assume that if a font exists in both places, ID uses the one in the application folder over the one in the system.

                                     

                                    You know, the Accepted Wisdom on these forums is that what we are doing (installiing two fonts with the same name in different places) is a Bad Idea. Your assumption is a little faulty; it will usually use the one in the /InDesign/Fonts folder instead of the OS Fonts folder. The rest of the time, it'll do something funky, or drop the italics, or crash, or something like that. Be especially vigilant when packaging or exporting PDFs or using Find Font or anything else along those lines. Those are the times that I have seen problems crop up when using this little duct-tape hack.

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                      SteveC100 Level 1

                                      Okay, thanks Joel. Caution duly noted. And thanks so much for your help.

                                       

                                      So where should I report this?

                                       

                                      Steve

                                      • 16. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                        Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Whoops! Feature request/bug report is here. If you have a support contract with Adobe, use that instead.

                                        • 17. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                          SteveC100 Level 1

                                          Joel,

                                          No support contract --

                                           

                                          but that  bug report link looks like it's broken. It takes me to an error page.

                                           

                                          Thanks --

                                          Steve

                                          • 18. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                            https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                             

                                            Joel's link has an extra Http on the end.....

                                            • 19. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                              Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Ach, I hate this forum software, it likes to add "http://:" to the end of any link I post.

                                               

                                              Feature request/bug report is here. I tested it this time.

                                              1 person found this helpful
                                              • 20. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                                SteveC100 Level 1

                                                Okay, done. Thanks again for your help. I hope Adobe is paying you guys!

                                                 

                                                Steve

                                                • 22. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                                  [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                                                  Oh wait, for that you have to mark an answer of your choice as "correct". You can also mark several as "helpful".

                                                  • 23. Re: Uneven Font Display
                                                    SteveC100 Level 1

                                                    Okay, I marked some posts. Unfortunately, the forum displays the "correct" answer in the beginning, which in this case doesn't make a lot of sense, but I guess readers can sort it out.