1 2 Previous Next 72 Replies Latest reply on Feb 16, 2015 12:51 PM by Eric A Weiner

    Canon C300 MXF spanned clips

    imacattack Level 1

      Total FCP to PP newbie here, so pardon if this is already addressed/covered/known issue or simply user error.

       

      My first project in PP is based on Canon C300 footage, 23.976, 1920x1080, interview content.   Many of my interviews go longer than the 2.05GB file limit and thus span across multiple clips.  This appears to be causing significant confusion with PP.  I've read a few other user discussions that seem to have similar issues but mine are slightly different...bear with me...

       

      Issue #1:

       

      Two spanned clips from the same camera take show up with the same starting time coded.  For example. I have one continuous interview that starts at 01:22:56:12 but then spans across two clips.  I'll call those Part A and Part B.   When I import Part A and Part B using "Import from Media Browswer, then both Part A and Part B display the same common start time-code, even though in reality part B should clearly start one frame after the end of Part A.      This happens in both the Project/Bin view as well as the Source Monitor.  See below.

      spanned_clips.png

      partA.pngpartB.png

       

      Aside from the confusion this creates with me, the user, it also appears to be causing problems within PP in that when I try to simply load either Part A or Part B into my source monitor, PP gets "confused" about which source clip it should playback from.  Sometimes this means that it plays the wrong clip entirely, until I pause and restart the playback, and sometimes it means that PP will stagger playback between the two clips (altnernately playing frames from A and then B in near real-time...A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B, etc) until it figures out which is the correct source clip to play.  

       

      If this weren't bad enough, it gets even more troubling when I edit a section from either Part A or Part B into a sequence, thinking that I've edited in the section that I want, only to play it back and have PP play the audio from Part A and the picture from Part B.  Yet another example of it's own internal confusion.

       

      Issue #2

      The complimentary problem to this is that the End TC for Part A and Part B are note the same.   Looking at the Bin view above, you can see that Part A has an end TC that is after the ending TC of Part B.   When I first encountered this I thought that it meant that PP was being "smart", seeing that there was a spanned clip, and then using the XML metadata to know that the full clip was the total of Part A and Part B, and that I could simply delete Part B from my project.      Not so.  As Issue #1 demosntrated, the TC associated with Part B is just flat out wrong in its display.  (the only correct aspect of Part B apparently is the duration.)

       

      Take-Aways:

      I'm not clear at this point if this is a problem with how Canon is writing it's MXF and XML files or how PP is reading those files.  Either way, it's maddening to try to edit something without the confidence that what I'm editing is in fact going to be there when I play it back.

       

      I've seen some users mention using other ingesting solutions and I would be interested in what those are before going much further in my cut (even though it will be tremendously discouraging to know that the "fast solution of PP" is somewhat of a fallacy at this point).    I'm also interested to know if these problems are limited to C300/MXF files or if it's showing up with .R3D files which also get written to disc as spanned files.

        • 1. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          Issue 1:

           

          You shouldn't be seeing two clips.  If a particular clip takes up two actual files on disk, let's call them File_01 and File_02, then only File_01 will show up, both in Media Browser and in the Bin once imported.  Sorted by file name, you should see the names go from File_01 to File_03.  The only time this doesn't happen is when you don't use the Media Browser for import, when you do it from the Project panel, which I suspect is what you actually did here.

           

          Issue 2:

           

          Corrected when you import from the Media Browser.

          • 2. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
            imacattack Level 1

            "You shouldn't be seeing two clips."

             

            And yet, I do. 

             

            "If a particular clip takes up two actual files on disk, let's call them File_01 and File_02, then only File_01 will show up, both in Media Browser and in the Bin once imported.  Sorted by file name, you should see the names go from File_01 to File_03."

             

            Nope, not happening.  I see File_01, File_02, File 03, etc...

             

            "The only time this doesn't happen is when you don't use the Media Browser for import, when you do it from the Project panel, which I suspect is what you actually did here."

             

            Nope, looking at it right now in Media Browser.

             



            • 3. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              What does the View as: show up top?

              • 4. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                imacattack Level 1

                oh wow...I feel dumb...and yet not.  Here's the reason:

                 

                When I first looked, it said "File Directory", and I saw everything XML files, and all spanned clips.  This is how I had imported things before and no doubt leads to my problems.      But because you had raised the question, it seemed like it was my newbie error so I investigated the other options.  I was intrigued by Canon XF but it was greyed out (see below).    Turns out there's a slight order of operation bug/limitation to get Canon XF to even display.  (I call it a bug because it's not user intuitive, but it may just be a feature limitation that could be imrpoved upon).  The issue is that UNLESS the user clicks on the root "Card Name" of the /Card Name/Contents/Clips###/ClipName/ structure, then there is no ability to even choose to view Canon XF.    In other words, because the "View As" was already set to File Directory, I was never viewing Single Clips and I was therefore allowed/forced to drill all the way down to individual MXF files to then import.

                 

                 

                file_dir.png

                drill_down.png

                 

                vs....

                 

                root_dir.png

                canon_xf.png

                 

                Thus, I now see why you said  "You shouldn't be seeing two clips....etc"

                 

                It's a bit less than intuitive and hopefully can be improved. 

                 

                Thanks for the help.

                 

                Loves me some Premiere Pro CS6.


                • 5. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                  imacattack Level 1

                  Follow up question:

                   

                  Now that I've incorrectly imported clips and actually started editing, jow do you recommend I rectify my problems? 

                   

                  If I delete clips from the bin, they dissapear from my timeline.  

                   

                  In a FCP world, I would unlink, safely delete the clips from the bin only, then relink to new media and if necessary, generate new master clips. 

                   

                  Can I expect to do this safely now that I know how to get the approprate spanned-but-stiched clips into PP?

                  • 6. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                    Stephen_Spider Level 3

                    Premiere interprets the spanned clips as one clip, which is convenient.

                     

                    If you import through a "file > import"  method after importing the spanned clip through Media Browser, you will see all of the partial .mxf of the spanned clip, however upon import premiere will treat each clip as if they are the same entire spanned clip.

                     

                    If their is a View setting in Media Browser is set to Cannon XF and the folder structure from the flash storage is intact, one should only see the 1st part of the spanned clip listed there. If the Media Browser view is set to File Directory, one should see all the .mxf files; again upon import premiere will treat each partial .mxf of the spanned clips as if they are the same entire spanned clip.

                     

                    If for some reason you really needed to import only one part of the spanned clip, use a file > import method before ever using the Media Browser.

                     

                    On our CS5.03 system Media Browser doesn't recognize Cannon XF spanned clips. We just use file import, then select each clip of the spanned video from the project window and drag them onto the New Item button. The creates a sequence that serves as a virtual spanned clip in Premiere.

                    • 7. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                      Stephen_Spider Level 3

                      You might start a new project. If Premiere is playing the wrong footage for a clip that you are previewing, I don't think that deleting and re-importing will fix it.

                       

                      The cleanest solution is likely a fresh project. You could export any good, working sequences with a high quality codec then import it into the new project.

                       

                      Good luck.

                      • 8. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                        If I delete clips from the bin, they dissapear from my timeline.  

                         

                        Yup.  You'll have to reedit anything using those clips.

                        • 9. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          The issue is that UNLESS the user clicks on the root "Card Name"

                           

                          That's just the way it works for all solid state media.

                          • 10. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                            imacattack Level 1

                            apparently, this issue is still present for me.  I'm still only seeing Part A of a spanned clip, even if I choose Canon XF frmo the View drop-down selector. 

                             

                            Ideas?

                            • 11. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              That's normal.  PP won't show you the multiple parts of a spanned clip, but it will bring them all in as one clip.

                              • 12. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                imacattack Level 1

                                But that's what I mean.   The clip that is imported, is NOT the complete spanned clip. 

                                • 13. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                  Hmm.  It should be.

                                   

                                  Are you following the directions posted earlier in the thread?

                                  • 14. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                    imacattack Level 1

                                    Yep, making sure that "View As" is set to Canon XF and using "Import from Media Browser".  Even started a brand new project to clear the slate.

                                    • 15. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                      wfmc staffer Level 2

                                      Wasn't it working for you earlier? Wasn't that part of the issue in your initial post?

                                      • 16. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                        imacattack Level 1

                                        No, it's never worked.  If I set "View As" to "File Directory", then I get the A & B portions of a spanned clip but significant problems within the timeline, and if set "View As" to "Canon XF" then I theoretically see the fully spanned clip in the Media Browswer but what gets imported at that point is only the A portion. 

                                        • 17. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                          Tayedrummer Level 1

                                          I was having the same problem if I'd drop folders from Windows Explorer into a bin.  The only solution I found was to use the media browser, navigate to the location of the media, right click and select IMPORT.  At that point you'll only see AA062401 in your bin even if AA062402, AA062403 and AA062404 spanned clips are in there (similar to how Red R3D media behaves in Premiere).

                                           

                                          I haven't tried to round-trip through Resolve to see if the spanned files make it though the process.  They do work in Premiere this way though.

                                          • 18. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                            what gets imported at that point is only the A portion. 

                                             

                                            That's all you will see in your bin, yes.  But the clip itself should be the entire duration.

                                            • 19. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                              imacattack Level 1

                                              But that's what I'm saying...it's NOT the entire clip.  It is only the A portion.  The clip stop playing in the middle of someone's dialog and if I go find the second part of the segment, then it continues right from where it left off.  

                                               

                                              I'm not sure how else to explain it.

                                              • 20. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                Nothing in the folders got renamed or moved?  You use Windows Explorer to copy from card to hard drive, not any special software?

                                                 

                                                Is it only with C300 clips?  Have you any other type of spanned media to test with?

                                                • 21. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                  imacattack Level 1

                                                  Well, I'm on a Mac, but no special software and I've kept the full directory structure in tact. 

                                                   

                                                  But, no, I have not tried any other spanned clips sources.  This is my first PP project (and first C300 shoot) but it seems pretty self evident how the Canon XF option is supposed to work vs how it's really working.   Oddly enough, the problem seems inconsistent between clips/folders.   In other worlds, some spanned clips are importing "in tact" while others are only coming with segment A in tact.  Makes me wonder if the clip based XML file has been corrupted and/or if there's a particular problem with C300 and Mac compatibility. 

                                                   

                                                  I'm particularly worried because I have another C300 shoot on deck, although I doubt I'll have bay takes that are long enough to create spanned clips.   Still unsettling either way.

                                                  • 22. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                    imacattack Level 1

                                                    Was just discussing this issue with my DP who initiallly thought that i was having problems with clips that were spanned across CF cards, so i wanted to reiterate here that the spanned clips are happening on any/all clip that goes over 2.05GB.   i assume that this is a FAT32 preventative measure on Canons part so I was curious if anyone knows if there is an option to turn the recording of segmented files OFF on the C300.

                                                    • 23. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                      FAT32 can go up to 4GB, so I'm not sure why the Canon is cutting them off at 2GB.

                                                       

                                                      Are the individual files spanned because of that size limit on the same card, or because the card itself ran out of space and they span from card A to card B?

                                                      • 24. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                        imacattack Level 1

                                                        Yes, I've been perplexed by the 2GB issue as well.  It's like a FAT16 limitation, for an unknown reason.

                                                         

                                                        To your second question though, they're spanning on the same card, not across cards.

                                                        • 25. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                          Stephen_Spider Level 3

                                                          2gb limit is the same with cannon AVCHD, I don't no about other brands.

                                                          • 26. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                            Stephen_Spider Level 3

                                                            Have you tried to use the cannon xf utility? There is an export function to combine spanned clips into one.mxf for you.

                                                            • 27. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                              ExactImage Level 3

                                                              It's actually a fat32 limitation      31 bits for size plus a two's compliment bit to seek forwards or backwards......

                                                              • 28. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                It's actually a fat32 limitation

                                                                 

                                                                The maximum possible size for a file on a FAT32 volume is 4 GB [not 2] minus 1 byte or 4,294,967,295 (232−1) bytes.

                                                                • 29. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                  Carter Beauford Level 1

                                                                  I am also having this same issue using Canon XF300 MXF spanned files. Premiere pro CS6 6.0.2 limits them to 29 seconds (full clip duration is over 10 minutes) and only plays audio from the first spanned file even when video from another clip is playing.

                                                                   

                                                                  Canon XF Utility plays the whole clip within the application perfectly, but when I try and export and merge files it also cuts them short as well.

                                                                   

                                                                  When opening with VLC (latest version, I believe it's 2.03) it plays the video perfectly but the audio plays at twice the speed...

                                                                   

                                                                  The workaround I've been having to do is logging and transferring the footage into FCP7 and transcoding using the Canon XF plugin and then importing the  .movs into premiere which of course is a hassle to do. Takes extra time and disk space.

                                                                   

                                                                  The main reason I made the switch to Premiere was the ability to play various formats in the same sequence but I can't even play MXFs properly...

                                                                   

                                                                  Computer specs: 12 core 2.66ghz Mac pro running snow leopard 16 GB

                                                                  • 30. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                    JMS Edit Level 1

                                                                    Same exact thing going on here. MXF clips jumple and discard random bits of footage when there are spanned clips.

                                                                     

                                                                    We have tried everything here. The two weeks we have been working with the c300 footage in post has been a total nightmare. We scoured the internet looking for answers.

                                                                     

                                                                    We have been ingesting MXF media by transcoding to ProRes with Final Cut Pro 7's 'Log and Transfer', after installing the FCP x Canon Plugin, then importing those clips to Premiere Pro.

                                                                     

                                                                    Hoping for an update soon.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                      BigBrennan Level 1

                                                                      Figured I'd give this a bump as I'm having the same issues.  Premiere won't even allow me to view the directories as XF directories.  Huge issue that's killing my workflow.  Present across multiple systems and multiple editors on my team.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                        Greg Baber Adobe Employee

                                                                        For clarification, are you trying to read the directories directly off the card or did you copy them onto the hard drive first?

                                                                         

                                                                        If copying to the hard drive, did you copy the entire file structure?

                                                                         

                                                                        And, can the Canon utility copy those files off the directory onto the hard drive correctly?

                                                                        • 33. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                          needles27 Level 3

                                                                          I'm about to do a C300 shoot for the first time, so this thread caught my eye.  I'm wondering if anyone has any good/bad experiences while using C300 footage with Prelude in their workflow?  What happens if you do your importing through Prelude, and then use the "Send to Premiere" command? 

                                                                          • 34. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                            BigBrennan Level 1

                                                                            I tried both.  Reading off the cards they aren't noticed as Canon XF directories. Copied locally I copied the entire folder and I did it properly, still won't read as an XF directory and importing the MXF files separately leads to problems with spanned clips.

                                                                             

                                                                            Tried copying the files through XF utility with the same results.  Had multiple people try the same thing including one of my editors and my DP, all with the same results.  We've also had the same issue with media coming from different C300s, so it's not an in-camera problem.  Moved to CS6 in October and haven't been able to use Premiere Pro since then.  Occasionally we'll cut something on an old machine that has CS5.

                                                                             

                                                                            I have all my people currently editing on Avid because of this, which is a big hassle considering we do a ton of work in After Effects and media management in Avid is a big issue if you're cutting with native ama files.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                              Paul Joy (UK) Level 1

                                                                              I have exactly the same problem, Premiere 6.02 on the Mac won't recognise the Canon XF files from my C300 as Canon XF either from the cards or from copies of the cards on my hard drive. Importing the individul spanned clips causes all kinds of weirdness with incorrect timecodes.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                                BigBrennan Level 1

                                                                                You know the saddest part of this is Adobe has been downright evasive about responding to this issue.  I've had 3 calls with techs who offered no help, no answers, or my favorite, insisted that I was doing something incorrectly.  Adobe keeps trying to close my help case without offering any additional assistance.  I've even been emailing a tech directly as he gave me his direct email address and now he has become totally unresponsive.

                                                                                 

                                                                                My work around is using an external recorder that captures to pro-res files or using an old laptop to edit that has CS5 installed on it.  Also been editing in Avid until Adobe figures out what's going on

                                                                                • 37. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                                  wfmc staffer Level 2

                                                                                  I may be wrong, but I think for Mac you need to load a driver from the Cannon CD that came with the camera to get the Mac to read the cards.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                                    Paul Joy (UK) Level 1

                                                                                    Sorry but I think that's wrong, there are no such installers. Canon XF should be recognised with a default installation.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Canon C300 MXF spanned clips
                                                                                      Paul Joy (UK) Level 1

                                                                                      One interesting thing I've noticed is that if I go back through my footage archive Premiere recognises all of my card offloads until August 2012, then every one since it fails to recognise as the XF Codec. Nothing changed in terms of workflow, I've always copied the entire cards over into a directory.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      The only thing I could think of that changed was the release and installation of Mountain Lion on my macs, could that effect the way the files are created somehow? I don't use the Canon XF utility to copy my cards, I just use the finder. You might think that could be the problem but it's not because premiere can't see my C300 footage as Canon XF today either straight from the card or after creating a backup using the utility.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Very strange!

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