huh, it's basics... just double-click to dig into the group. When you have selected one item of the group, you can select one more with shift, or select another with plain clicking on it... Just play with it, and you'll see the options. You don't need cmd or opt keys to work in groups.
Thanks for the super quick repsonse. Unfortunately that hasn't seemed to have helped me.
That works fine as long as the grouped items are overlapping or apart, but not when items are entirely behind another item (ie, no part protruding from the group)
The problem is that if I double click to try and get through a text box to an item that is entirely behind it, then it just switches into text edit mode for the top text box.
If it helps, could you imagine a transparent text box that is 20x20 with red rectangle centred beneath it that is 10x10. If the 2 items are grouped I cant find any way to select through to the red rectangle without first ungrouping the two.
Am I going mad?
oh, yes, then you should follow Prashant's advice and use "Select next object" icon, after you selected your text frame via double-click. I believe, its rather rare case (with full overlapping), so 9 times of 10 using just double-click is absolutely enough when selecting grouped item.
On selecting the group, press the downward pointing icon to get into the object and then cycle through the objects in it with right or left pointing icons (box with three sub objects in the above diagram).
Thanks for that. It just about works.
It still feels a bit unwieldy compared to the the Quark command, as some of the groups I'm working with are pretty complex and it takes quite a lot of clicks to get through to the item I want, but its still a lot better than having to ungroup them.
Yes, it's felt as if I'm the only person in the world who's working will fully overlapping items.
It's strange as I have to deal with dozens of them every day.
Anyhow, I'm a bit better off now. Thanks again for the input. I'm impressed at how quickly people responded.
yeah, this forum is living fast and you're welcome to the club.
on topic: I believe it's worth to get familiar with both ways of working with groups. I almost never use those icons... Double clicking lets you dig straightforward in multilevel groups, and it's just fun.
I'm not certain I understand the overlapping, so you may have to experiment a bit or use a combination of techniques, but in general, if you use the Direct Select tool (white arrow) you can select a memeber of a group, but I find it easier to use the Selection tool (black arrow) and double click an object in the un-selected group. This should select the that object alone, and you should now be able to select individual objects from the group, or add/remove objects using the Selection tool as if they were no longer grouped untill all objects in the group are once again deselected. Use the Shift key to add an object or remove one already selected.
To move down through the stack Hold the Cmd key and click to get the next lower object.