11 Replies Latest reply on Oct 9, 2012 6:35 PM by Jim_Simon

    Archive Capabilities / Settings

    Andrew M Clark Level 1

      Hello -

       

      I'm looking to get CS6 (for either Mac or Windows).

       

      Currently dabbling in FCPX, I noticed that FCPX has the ability to "Create Archive" from a tape based source; which I believe is just a straight (lossless) copy of the tape.

       

      Does PPro CS6 have the ability to create an archive of footage from a tape based format that is an exact (lossless) copy?

       

      If not, any one have suggestions on method(s) to archive tape based footage in a lossless format?

       

      Appreciate any advice regarding this!!

        • 1. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          There's no feature with that name, but I'm not sure I understand exactly what the feature does.  For starters, unless things have changed, FCPX has no capability whatsoever to deal with tape based media.  You would have to use another program to get anything from tape onto the hard drive for editing, and that program would determine what codecs were used.

           

          Premiere Pro can capture from DV and HDV tape over FireWire, which creates DV and MPEG files (respectively) on the hard drive for use in editing or archiving.  With the addition of third-party cards, you can also add HDMI and HD-SDI capture to the mix.

          • 2. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
            Steven L. Gotz Level 5

            To add to what Jin said, when Premiere Pro captures DV, it is really just taking the ones and zeros off of the tape and putting them on a hard drive in a format readable by a PC or Mac. There is no loss. It is still 25Mb/s, the same as on the tape. There is no additional compression. The compression happens when the video is written to the tape. So if you set the capture for the entire tape, you will certainly have an archive that can be used at a later date.

             

            The same applies to HDV. It is a lot more compressed before writing it to tape, but that is when the compression method is so different between DV and HDV. Hoever, no additional compression occurs when captured from tape to your hard drive.

            • 3. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
              Andrew M Clark Level 1

              Jim -

               

              The "feature with that name" is Create Archive.

               

              FCPX (currently) has the ability to accept tape..., I've utilized it and it works.

              • 4. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
                SimonHy Level 2

                Shaluda wrote:

                 

                Jim -

                 

                The "feature with that name" is Create Archive.

                 

                 

                Jim means that there is no feature in Premiere with that name.

                 

                Basically a FCPX Archive is functionally like a zip file, it locks away a copy of your clip. It's not a widely useful archive as it is only readable by FCPX. If you want a function like that, why not just make a zip file out of it? It serves the same purpose but isn't tied down to one editing system.

                • 5. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
                  Andrew M Clark Level 1

                  Steven -

                   

                  Appreciate the info.

                   

                  Nice to know that there is no compression the PPro uses when capturing.

                   

                  So utilizng the current version of PPro (CS6), I take it from what you are stating there is a setting to "capture entire tape" .... or do you have to set the In and Out points manually?

                  • 6. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
                    Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                    I don't have my camera out and handy, but if I recall correctly, you have a choice between "In to Out" and "Tape". Just use Tape if you want the entire tape.

                    • 7. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
                      Andrew M Clark Level 1

                      Simon -

                       

                      It would be great to have an archive of my tapes on a HDD readable by any NLE ... without being compressed of course.

                       

                      But don't ZIP files use some sort of compression scheme? (I'm not sure; which is why I'm asking.)

                      • 8. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
                        Andrew M Clark Level 1

                        Thanks Steven, nice to know.

                         

                        Simon stated that if I created a ZIP file that it could be read by any NLE.

                         

                        Sounds fine, but I thought that ZIP files utilize form of compression .... which is what I don't want.

                         

                        It would be nice to have an archive of tapes on HDD's that could be utilized by any NLE!!

                        • 9. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
                          SimonHy Level 2

                          Zip files compress, but not for compressed sources. When you unzip an archive, what you get out is the same as what you put into it.

                           

                          While zipping is probably not bad for volatile file structures like AVCHD, as it means you have a copy that maintains the folder structure, the main thing you want in an archive is just for it to be in two places,  preferably at least one of which is on a raid drive with redundancy.

                           

                          Personally I'd skip the zipping/archiving, and store the media on another drive.

                          • 10. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
                            Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                            I don't believe that zip files help you in any significant way when it comes to reducing the storage requirements for DV-AVI, the format used to put the ones and zeros from the tape into a file on your hard drive on a Windows platform. I believe that FCP puts it into a .mov file - but it is the exact same information regardless of the wrapper put around it.

                             

                            If you send someone a bag of marbles, you can put it in a square box, or you can put it in a flatter box. It does not matter to the marbles. Once the box is opened, they pull out the bag and see the same thing no matter how it was sent. And to continue the metaphor, the box can only be just so small. You can't suck the air out of it to make it smaller than the marbles will allow. Or the marbles will break and no longer be useful (as marbles). On the other hand, if you send someone a puffy winter jacket, you can get one of those space bags to suck the air out and make the package much smaller than just putting the jacket into a big box. And once they take the jacket out and shake it a bit, it looks the same as before. It didn't lose any mass. It looks exactly the same.

                             

                            To test my theory, I just compressed a short DV clip from my old Mini-DV camera. It started out 26,554KB and the xip file ended up 25,207KB.  So, nothing significant.

                             

                            The good news is that DV-AVI is DV-AVI. You take it from the tape and put it back on the tape and nothing has changed. You can even slice it up in Premiere Pro, and if you do not add any effects at all, when you put it back on the tape, it is exactly the same, but without the stuff you didn't want. Nice, huh?

                             

                            So, what is the best long term storage medium? Many people will say that it is tape, if stored properly. I keep my tapes and I keep the hard drives. I have tapes from 2002 that are in great shape. I have files on my PC from those same tapes that look fine. In fact, the file I compressed to test the results is from 2002.

                             

                            If what you are trying to do is to archive a project, along with the source media, then you need to use the Project Manager in Premiere Pro. It will gather everything you used, nedia and all, to a new directory, or drive, in a nice, neat, organized way. Ready to be used years later (if you remember to update the project file if the file format changes like it did from Premiere to Premiere Pro).

                            • 11. Re: Archive Capabilities / Settings
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              It would be great to have an archive of my tapes on a HDD readable by any NLE

                               

                              So...what's stopping you?  There's no trick to this.  Just don't delete the captures. That's your archive.