12 Replies Latest reply on Oct 6, 2012 7:55 AM by Peter Spier

    Unable to add bleed or release facing pages

    ryobi2color

      InDesign CS5.5 on a PowerMac running Lion OS.

       

      We have a 32 page pamphlet brought in by a customer that was set up in CS5.5. 8.5x11 document size, facing pages checked, page numbering starts at 2 so all the pages are showing as 2 page spreads.

       

      We need to make some adjustments to the file but I can't figure out what is going on. Unchecking facing pages does nothing. The pages do not break out of the spreads into single pages. Second problem is that when we added in bleed setting in the document setup panel absolutely nothing happens. No red outline. Checked in all views just in case I wasn't paying attention. Nothing is locked. The master pages are blank. I'm mystified as to what is going on and I'm hoping someone has some insight.

       

      Thanks!

       

      Ryobi2color

        • 1. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
          Colin Flashman Adobe Community Professional

          Try this first in case the file is corrupt: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/526991

           

          Otherwise, have a look in the pages palette to see if "Allow Document Pages to Shuffle" is turned on or off. If the tick is there... not sure. If it is unticked, that would be why the pages aren't moving.

           

          About the bleed, in preferences, under guides and pasteboard, the client didn't do something silly such as change the bleed colour to white?

           

          that's all i can think of at the moment

           

          colly

          • 2. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            Even if pages are allowed to shuffle, if the page numbering starts with an even number a facing pages file will remain in spreads.

             

            You say the master page is blank? Is there perhaps more than one master? It's hard to believe that a file with page numbering isn't using a master page with a current page marker on it. Maybe this is a file built from placed pages of another document? Can you select and edit text?

             

            Generally switching from facing to non-facing pages in Document setup would be a disaster. That forces all pages to use the right-hand half of a two page master spread, so be very careful about doing that. If you need to break apart spreads to add an inside bleed, there are easy ways to do it without modifying the facing pages layout: InDesignSecrets » Blog Archive » Breaking Pages Apart to Bleed Off a Spine  Read the notes, too. There's a script for doing the whole file if you need to.

             

            You say you don't see the bleed guides even after adding them. Sounds like you might be in Preview mode. Do you see the white pasteborad or any other guides?

            • 3. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
              Michael Gianino Level 4

              Just an outside chance here, but are the pages built on 8.5x11 document pages as singles, or did the designer use a 17x11 page and built two pages on one document page?

              • 4. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                winterm Level 4

                Peter Spier wrote:

                 

                ... If you need to break apart spreads to add an inside bleed, there are easy ways to do it without modifying the facing pages layout: InDesignSecrets » Blog Archive » Breaking Pages Apart to Bleed Off a Spine  Read the notes, too. There's a script for doing the whole file if you need to.

                It's a bit outdated thread, I believe... However, Al Ferrari idea there ("My idea for it would be that when an inside bleed value is specified in Document Setup for a Facing Pages document, that ID would display the page spreads pulled apart by the amount of the inside bleed") now is implemented with Page Tool.

                Today, if you want an inside bleed not extending onto another page in spread, you might use Page Tool.

                • 5. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  winterm wrote:

                   

                  It's a bit outdated thread, I believe... However, Al Ferrari idea there ("My idea for it would be that when an inside bleed value is specified in Document Setup for a Facing Pages document, that ID would display the page spreads pulled apart by the amount of the inside bleed") now is implemented with Page Tool.

                  Today, if you want an inside bleed not extending onto another page in spread, you might use Page Tool.

                  You can believe whatever you like, and the Page tool might, indeed get you where you want to be. If going to print, though, my experince is it's far safer to split the spread the old way than to introduce the complications of multiple page sizes.

                  • 6. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                    winterm Level 4

                    Peter Spier wrote:

                    You can believe whatever you like

                    No, I can't, but that's another story. That thread is nearly 6 years old, couldn't accept your categorical tone about it.

                     

                    ... than to introduce the complications of multiple page sizes.

                    What? I'm sure you know that multiple page sizes - not the only thing one can do with Page Tool.

                    Here is the screenshot:

                    2012-10-06.png

                    Single page size for all pages. Yes, it's not "true" facing pages too, but at least I can show it as a spread. Doing it in "old way", can you? There is still "right" and "left" pages of single Master spread. In fact, there's no other differences - just more convienent view for designer.

                    What problems with print or whatever?

                    • 7. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                      ryobi2color Level 1

                      You say the master page is blank? Is there perhaps more than one master? It's hard to believe that a file with page numbering isn't using a master page with a current page marker on it. Maybe this is a file built from placed pages of another document? Can you select and edit text?

                       

                      There is only one master and no page markers on the master. Our key operator is going to add page numbers for the customer in his docsetter when he processes the file. The file appears to be a bit of kluge. Things like 3 separate spot colors of decreasing intensity instead of tints from a single spot, the main article has columns of text as individual frames and no linkages between them. But we can select and edit text and access all objects.

                       

                      Generally switching from facing to non-facing pages in Document setup would be a disaster. That forces all pages to use the right-hand half of a two page master spread, so be very careful about doing that. If you need to break apart spreads to add an inside bleed, there are easy ways to do it without modifying the facing pages layout: InDesignSecrets » Blog Archive » Breaking Pages Apart to Bleed Off a Spine  Read the notes, too. There's a script for doing the whole file if you need to.

                       

                      I figured since the master is blank releasing facing pages wouldn't cause a problem. Thanks for that link! I can certainly hand split this file but I'm still curious (even though it may be a bad idea) why the document won't release the facing pages.

                       

                      You say you don't see the bleed guides even after adding them. Sounds like you might be in Preview mode. Do you see the white pasteborad or any other guides?

                       

                      Not in Preview mode. Everything else is showing -- guides, margins, pasteboard.

                      • 8. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                        ryobi2color Level 1

                        Just an outside chance here, but are the pages built on 8.5x11 document pages as singles, or did the designer use a 17x11 page and built two pages on one document page?

                         

                        Definitely built as single 8.5x11 documents.

                        • 9. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          I can certainly show non-facing pages in a spread by turning off shuffling. Your method is interesting, though as it shows them with inside bleed at the spine, where my method does not:

                          Non-facing Spreads.png

                          In this case there may not be a problem at print time (though it will probably fail if you try to use Print Booklet in CS6 currently, but that's a differnt bug). That said, you can break down the cases where you need inside bleed into two basic types: Bleed on objects crossing the spine, in which case the bleed is really the edge of the opposite page, and that sort of bleed doesn't require splittig of spreads at all, and won't work with your setup unless you place those objects twice, once on each page and crop; and bleeds that are for objects that don't cross the spine, in which case your method might be easier, but I think tat would be an individual preference.

                           

                          My own preference would be to work in real facing pages so I can see waht the reader will see, right up to the point where I need to output. If I then need to split one or more spreads I can do it at that time and not have to do my designing across that inside bleed area.

                          • 10. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            ryobi2color wrote:

                             

                            Just an outside chance here, but are the pages built on 8.5x11 document pages as singles, or did the designer use a 17x11 page and built two pages on one document page?

                             

                            Definitely built as single 8.5x11 documents.

                            Can you show us a screen shot of the page and the Pages panel?

                            • 11. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                              winterm Level 4

                              Peter Spier wrote:

                               

                              I can certainly show non-facing pages in a spread by turning off shuffling.

                              Can't see a benefit to do this, until it doesn't show inside bleed. If it was enough, there would be no need in that thread you posted a link earlier.

                              As I said, I see no essential differences between "my method" and that "old way", except of more convienent view, and using new tool of ID. So all the cons you pointed out, goes to that "old way" too, I guess?

                              However, this method is needed rarely. It's good for projects that go to spiral binding (not sure for Eglish term, I hope you understand what I mean). In all other cases you mentioned we can happily forget it, so no probs here with "objects crossing the spine" and similar stuff. Inside bleed in most cases is pointless at all.

                               

                              My own preference would be to work in real facing pages so I can see waht the reader will see

                              it depends on method of final binding, sometimes you see on your screen with facing pages more than reader will see (I mean not only bleeds), and I'm sure you keep it in mind while working.

                              btw, doing in that "mode with inside bleed" (doesn't matter which "version") project for spiral binding, you see exactly what your reader will get...

                              • 12. Re: Unable to add bleed or release facing pages
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                First, let me say that "old" doesn't necessarily mean "obsolete" and "new" doesn't necessarily mean "better." The tools you want to use, and how you use ID are largely a matter of personal choice. That's one of the things that makes ID so nice.

                                 

                                If I need to do a spiral bound book with inside bleed I tend to lay out by increasing the page width by the inside bleed dimension and adding a guide to show the trim edge. That's the "old-fashioned" way of getting your view.

                                 

                                As they say, "different strokes for differnt folks." In my workflow the only postential use I've found for the Page tool has been for book covers, and after trying it as a three-page spread, I've decided I still prefer a single page laid out in two columns with the gutter eqaul to the spine, but I generally don't have to design the cover without knowing the spine width.