20 Replies Latest reply on Oct 22, 2012 7:26 AM by ECBowen

    Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it

    Scott Chichelli Level 3

      Hey all,

       

      here are some benchies for Premiere, and AE. as well as Red 4k.

       

      will add AE later actually. please do NOT pollute this thread, stay on topic and relevancy.

       

      Video material - AVCHD 1080P 24 Frame Each Cut to 30 minutes of material

      Export Codec - H264 HDTV 1080P 24 Preset Default

      4 Effects per Layer - Fast Color Corrector, Brightness & Contrast, Video Limiter, Sharpen

      Each Layer Scaled to 50% for 4 frame PinP view.

       

      Ivy Bridge 3770 @ 4.7GHz

      16GB DDR3 1600

      4x 1TB 32Meg Cache Drives.  (2 sets raid 0)

      680GTX 2GB video card

      Adobe CS6

      3 Layer - 28:05

      4 layer - 33:19

       

      3930K @ 3.2 GHz (stock)

      32GB DDR3 1600

      4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives.

      670GTX 4GB video card

      Adobe CS6

      3 Layer - 30:12

      4 layer - 37:00

       

      3930K @ 4.5GHz

      32GB DDR3 1600

      4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives.

      670GTX 4GB video card

      Adobe CS6

      3 Layer - 25:59

      4 layer - 31:05    <---- winner by far.

       

      2X Xeon E5 2687 @3.1

      32GB DDR3 1600

      4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives Raid 10

      670GTX 4GB video card

      Adobe CS6.02

      3 Layer - 31:15

      4 layer - 38:43

       

      Note* the slowest performer in THIS test is the DUAL Xeon. this is more about GHZ than core count with this work flow even the Ivy @ 4.7GHz beat the stock 3930k

      cant imagine how slow a single Xeon would be...  this is indicitive of the average workfow for most in Premiere.

       

      Next up Red 4K where the Xeons shine.. we didnt bother with the Ivy system.

       

      2X Xeon E5 2687 @3.1

      32GB DDR3 1600

      4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives Raid 10

      670GTX 4GB video card

      Adobe CS6.02

      Red 4K to DPX  4096 x 2048 24p Full Range (max bit depth)

      3 Layer - 8:13

      4 layer - 11:52

       

       

      3930K @ 3.2 GHz (stock)

      32GB DDR3 1600

      4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives.

      670GTX 4GB video card

       

      Red 4K to DPX  4096 x 2048 24p Full Range (max bit depth)

      3 Layer - 11:23

      4 layer - 13:55

       

      3930K @ 4.5GHz

      32GB DDR3 1600

      4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives.

      670GTX 4GB video card

       

      Red 4K to DPX  4096 x 2048 24p Full Range (max bit depth)

      3 Layer - 9:49

      4 layer - 11:53   OH WAIT A TIE with the Xeons.. 

       

      We feel there is a place for dual Xeons and red 4K tpe codecs or heavy animation is it..

       

      Eric will have to post the AE info as there is way to many benchmarks in that folder. varied ram count, video cards etc plus he is still getting X79 #s

      this gets to be a pain with every version change having to go back a redo #s.

       

      Scott

      ADK

       

      [Message was edited by: Jim Simon - Added the stock 3930K speeds for easy reference.]

        • 1. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
          Jim_Simon Level 8
          We feel there is a place for dual Xeons

           

          Would it really make financial sense, though?  Seems you can get the same performance from a single $560 CPU as the $3,800 dual Xeons.  (I wonder what the dual 3939Ks times would have been...)

          • 2. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
            lasvideo Level 4

            Keep in mind Jim this is just one benchmark. In the process of editing I do many things with different pieces of software. And although Red and large formats dramtically benefit from the dual zeon , many other operations fly when all 32 threads are at work. And when time is of the essence, its worth the investment.

            • 3. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              What kind of other operations?

              • 4. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                lasvideo Level 4

                3D in Cinema 4D, Syntheyes for andvanced Motion tracking, Mocha for object tracking.They all take advantge of the 32 threads.

                • 5. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                  Lasvideo is correct about the Dual Xeons and their benefit with pure threading applications such as Cinema4D. Many of these type of applications are adding GPU support for rendering which very well may change this soon. However until then the Dual Xeons shine with 3D generated material and compositing applications such as AE. However CS6 is showing the Dual Xeon now really coming into it's own handling Red material with the MPE engine which is an improvement over CS5 or 5.5. Overall the Dual Xeon also gives a far greater performance ceiling than the X79. This means a Dual Xeon can handle a far greater load in Premiere before you have to render the timeline than an X79 system. If budget is less of a concern than production time then the Dual Xeon makes sense for complicated projects with heavy effects work.

                   

                  Eric

                  ADK

                  • 6. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                    Ola_1974. Level 1

                    Hi guys, interesting article.

                     

                    Maybe I have come to the right place.

                     

                    I recently posted a thread where I asked for help on what to buy.

                    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4756332

                     

                    Time is a luxury I am low on, and I have several projects in the pipeline, and I need a new supercomputer for fast HD(1080p)/4K video editing/rendering.

                    The projects are both 1920x1080, 4K (3840x2160), and 4K x 4K (4196x4196 - circular).

                     

                    I am not saying that money is not an issue, but I would hate to fail and buy an underpowered NLE PC for my tasks. That is why I am also considering a high end dual XEON system.

                    But I would also hate to waste money. So I am looking to make the RIGHT decision here!

                     

                    I am working with Adobe CS6. primarily in After Effects (AE), but also in Premiere Pro (PP).

                    All my work consist of a lot of slowing down footage, which is very CPU/GPU / RAM intensive, like; frame blending, time warping/stretching, twixtoring etc, and previewing this effects..

                     

                    I am considering a dual XEON E5 8-core 2680 or 2687 (w 64-128GB RAM) vs an overclocked 6-core 3930K/3960X 4.1/4.2Ghz (w 32GB RAM) system.

                    Regardless what system I choose, it will go with a MSI GTX680 4GB DDR5 w 1536 cuda cores (unlocked for Adobe.), + SSD raid for boot/programs + 24 TB RAID5/6 for storage.

                     

                    There seem to be very different opinions about where to go and what to choose. And some say a dual XEON system with 32 cores (w hyperthreading enabled) is overkill since AE/PP is not capablae ot utilizing all cores effectively, I don't know.

                    In other words, the hardware is way ahead of the software.

                     

                    If this is not the right place I apologize, but this thread seem to be touching upon my exact question, and I hope you will be able to help me make the RIGHT decision.

                    Maybe you could give me some input under my thread if discussing this under this thread is wrong.

                     

                    First I was going for the dual XEON, then the i7, and then I actually was about to order a dual XEON system, but then I read this thread, where the OC'ed 3930 is just as fast as a dual E5 2687 in rendering, and I am thinking the i7 is enough for my tasks.

                     

                    Although rendering is not all, seemless editing and preview is even more important!

                     

                    Your input would be so greatly appreciated!!

                     

                    Best,.

                    Ole

                    • 7. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Compliments on a well phrased question. Wish more people did that.

                       

                      OK, the Aurora is out because 32 GB is not enough for all that RED 4K material and your extensive use of time warp and Twixtor. You really need 64 GB memory.

                       

                      I looked at the Dell T7600 and started configuring it with dual E5-2687W's, 64 GB, no video card (you intend to get one Dell does not have, one SSD and the maximum 4 disks that one can choose and already was over € 11,000. Not surprising, since Dell steals you blind if you choose anything other than default for a system.

                       

                      I understand your reasoning, but I think you can get better BFTB with other approaches. However, first let me try to remove doubts you may have about multi-threading in AE and PR, both applications use multi-threading perfectly using all cores available. I don't know whether Twixtor is equally well behaved. I do know that several popular plug-ins for PR, like from RedGiant, are not that much optimized for multi-threading.

                       

                      AE is an application that greatly benefits from more cores while PR generally profits more from clock speed. And that is the main dilemma you face. Go for an expensive dual E5-2687W system or go for an overclocked i7-39xx system?

                       

                      This is not an answer to your question, but I'm in the final stages of a new system which is documented here: Planning & Building a NLE System and it may contain material of interest to you. It is long and contains many pages, but it may be worthwhile to have a look and the price/performance is attractive in comparison to the Dell.

                       

                      The Dell T7600 has - apart from the price - several drawbacks that you need to be aware of. It is limited in internal space, so with all that 4K material the number of internal disks can be a limiting factor. Dell uses special connectors for disks and forces one to use Dell raid controllers (well, LSI actually) and make it quite a hassle to install for instance an Areca controller. The PSU has non-standard dimensions and cabling and can not be replaced by another brand. All E5 CPU's are locked and cannot be overclocked, not only because of the crippled BIOS in Dell machines.

                       

                      A DIY solution, like I described in the link above, is by far the least costly solution but you may not be so inclined. In that case I suggest you contact Eric Bowen at ADK Video Editing and explain your situation. ADK is a highly regarded custom builder with excellent service and they can build a system exactly tailored to your needs and Eric is their top technical guru.

                       

                      Hope this helps.

                      • 8. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                        Alex - DV411 Level 2

                        Ole,

                         

                        I am with Mylenium (Walter) - if you need a system for AE and 4K, at the very least you'd want the ability to have more than 64GB RAM (just case, for the future), and that rules out Core i7 (max RAM - 64GB).

                         

                        Why Dell and not HP Z820?  Sure, T7600 looks a bit splashier, I really like the design, features, externally accessible PSU, drive bays, including SFF ones.  T7600 however has two fewer PCIe slots, and has less of a track record in AE or Pr use.

                         

                        To save money, don't use the HP configurator to fully deck it out, only to configure a base system.  One CPU that you need, minimum RAM, cheapest boot HDD.  Add a "smartbuy" 2nd CPU that you will install yourself later.  Separate HP "smartbuy" parts if you need them.  Separately, order 3rd party RAM, SSD, hard drives and/or an external array.  That will save you a a few thousand.

                         

                        Alternately, get a custom dual Xeon system from a reputable integrator, which should save you even more.

                        • 9. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                          What is the Percentage of AE work with 4K material to Premiere work with the same?

                           

                          Eric

                          ADK

                          • 10. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                            Ola_1974. Level 1

                            Thanks Harm!!

                             

                            I am aware of the space limitations of the Dell T7600, that will not be an issue regardless what system I go for, since I will be housing the RAID system in a separate cabinett. I am also aware of the controllers. The Dell, If I choose to buy a Dell, will only have some SSDs in the cabinett. I am open to all types of machines/custom builds. But what is important to me is that I can get a good price through a retailer I know on Dell, and Dell also offer a 3 year service on location.

                             

                            And yes I thought it was a little strange that the Aurora "only" could offer 32GB, when most 2011 / i7 motherboards can go to 64GB.

                             

                            So memory is a huge issue here it seems..

                             

                            I will read through your article and get back!

                             

                            Thank you,

                            Ole

                            • 11. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                              Ola_1974. Level 1

                              Hi Alex,

                               

                              thank you for your reply.

                               

                              I was a bit hasty and wrote Dell in my initial post, but I removed it here since it is not decided, and I do not have to buy a DELL, but I can get a good price on DELL through my network. However I am open to all pc's/brands. But regardless what brand/or custom build, I just want to try my best to make the right decision on the CPU/GPU route for my type of work...

                               

                              Will check out HP, and thanks for your advice on the HP configurator.

                               

                              If I get you right you say go with the XEONS..

                               

                              Best,

                              Ole

                              • 12. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                Ola_1974. Level 1

                                Dear Eric,

                                 

                                thank you for your time and your reply.

                                 

                                I would say, since I do a lot of slowing down footage in AE, the percentage of usage between the two is 70% AE / 30% PP, as it is today.

                                 

                                Most of my work is timelapse based. AE is much more convenient for working wiht stop motion based videos (timelapse) in high resolution than PP, even if I don't do any timestretching/frameblending. So I think it is safe to say I will continue to work most in AE.

                                 

                                And, the more I think about it, even if rendering time IS important, I realize that previewing what a sequence looks like, with the applied effects, time-stretch/warp/frameblend/twixtor, color correction, etc. is more important than the actual rendering time itself.

                                 

                                 

                                Best,

                                Ole

                                • 13. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                  If the majority of your work is in AE then a Dual Xeon provided you have enough ram to assign 1GB to 1.5GB per thread will be the best platform. AE is still majority threading and ram so that is what I would suggest you build around if it is in the budget range you want.

                                   

                                  Eric

                                  ADK

                                  • 14. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                    Ola_1974. Level 1

                                    Harm,

                                     

                                    I did read your article, really interesting reading. And even if the article does not seem to go into depth about comparing/considering the i7 39XX vs the "affordable" E5's (2680 maybe, not the E5 2690), the article certainly raises my awereness over a few other things. Such as RAM and disk system, which I may need to look further into. I've never heard of RAID30, I was sure RAID5 or RAID6 was the way to go today from other articles I've read. Also, you mention that AE is capable of utilizing several Graphic cards (GPU), in 3D raytraced engine, in contradiction to what I believed. I actually have a GTX690 here which I will return for a cheaper GTX680, since I read in Adobe, only a single GPU is used. Anyway, I will not be doing much 3D rendering, only 2D, so I will likely not benefit from the raytraced 3D engine anyway!? I may need to look further into what disk (RAID system) to go for, but I am not gonna hijack this thread any further and I will search forum, and if needed start my own thread. But obviously I am looking for some sort of redundancy, and increased read speed (for playing back 4K footage in realtime), although I guess this also can be done on a RAIDed SSD boot/program/cache disk system.

                                     

                                    Thanks for your thoughts and input,

                                    really appreciated!

                                    Ole

                                    • 15. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                      Ola_1974. Level 1

                                      Eric,

                                       

                                      If I go for a dual E5, it will most likely be the 2680/2687s, to get as high frequency as possible, since overclocking them is hard. And I will feed them with at least 64GB of RAM. And I trust this NLE will still be a decent performer in PP, even if the main reason for taking the extra cost of a XEON system is performance in AE!?

                                       

                                      Thank you very much for your thoughts on the matter, I realize I am getting the advices from the best people in the business here!!

                                       

                                      Appreciated!

                                       

                                      Ole

                                      • 16. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                        The 2687's would be the Idea choice. With those your performance in Premiere will be excellent and AE Ideal. I recently had a heavy animation client friend get a Dual 2687 system and he reported the AE ram preview was so much faster than his Previous Dual 5600 Xeon system that he was completely suprised. I am still waiting to hear back from him on his C4D experience.

                                         

                                        Eric

                                        ADK

                                        • 17. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                          lasvideo Level 4

                                          Ole, as someone who recently purchased a HP Z820 (2-2687 / 64GB ram / GTX 570) I can tell you I am extremely pleased with it.

                                          • 18. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                            Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                            Will check out HP, and thanks for your advice on the HP configurator.

                                             

                                            If I get you right you say go with the XEONS..

                                            Based on what you wrote so far about what you need from your system, definitely.

                                             

                                            If you don't need all that internal expansion, consider a Z620 (or a T5600).

                                             

                                            (It's probably the first time I ever said that - because these two models aren't all that much cheaper than their bigger brethren, and only exist for those who don't need storage, I/O and memory expansion that the higher models afford.  E.g. a 3DS Max artist at Dreamworks or a computational fluid dynamics scientist at Lockheed Martin.  Also, the previous gen model, Z600's design was not on the same level as Z800, making the choice clear. Z620 is a different animal however, has all the good stuff from the Z820, except smaller PSU, less max memory, fewer drives, fewer slots.  The CPU choices are all the same and it does take high power GPUs including Maximus configs.)

                                             

                                            Pics of Z620 and Z820 internals.

                                             

                                            http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/14262_na/14262_ov2.jpghttp://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/14264_ca/14264_ov2.jpg

                                            • 19. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                              jamesp2 Level 1

                                              Since most editors spend far more time editing than exporting, how does the time-line responsiveness vary, if at all, from one system to another?

                                               

                                              Thanks.

                                              • 20. Re: Benchmarks again Xeon vs etc for those who may have missed it
                                                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                That is somewhat of a broad question. The timeline performance will depend on the codec of material your dealing with and Adobe's Caching model for that codec. In regards to AE, allot has to do with the ram assigned per thread in the multiprocessing options in AE. 1GB to 1.5GB right now gives you the optical caching performance with AE and Ram preview. Beyond that the Disk speed would effect the load time into ram for the material with AE. That is a general summary of what to look for. If you deal with Large comps in AE then having an SSD drive for the OS is a good way to load the AE projects quickly and deal with the interface ideally.

                                                 

                                                Eric

                                                ADK