6 Replies Latest reply on Oct 16, 2012 8:14 AM by josephs51576386

    HD vs. 4K Video resolution questions

    media kat Level 1

      I was taking some still photos with my iPhone at 3264 x 2448 for a PP project and it had me thinking. HD video is only 1920 x 1080, which is much less resolution than a basic still shot from an iPhone.

       

      1. Why is 1920 x 1080 HD resolution the high quality standard and not 4k video camera resolution? Is this currently a limitation of display devices and price, or is there some other reason?

      2. Can I make a 4k still image project in PP based on a resolution of something like 4096 × 2048 and than just downconvert when I'm done? Are there any issues with working with lots of stills of that size in the program?

       

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: HD vs. 4K Video resolution questions
          SimonHy Level 2

          It took almost a hundred years to shift from SD resolution to HD, in the meantime they invented colour. HD's barely been around for a decade, and already people are wondering why it's so low... makes me laugh.

           

          To answer your question, it's all about legacy and investment in a standard. Companies the world over have invested billions into technology based around a standard, just like they did with SD. It took a huge effort to change that standard to HD, it'll probably take another huge effort to change it again. 4k is great, and there's nothing to stop people shooting and working in it for a long time, but it's not likely to be a common delivery format (outside of cinema) for some time.

          • 2. Re: HD vs. 4K Video resolution questions
            shooternz Level 6

            All you need to know:

             

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

             

            Q1. Who said it was the "hq standard" but...see next answer.,   Yes ...and how does one distribute it efficiently within the bandwidth.

             

            Q2  Yes, Yes if you dont have the computing horsepower...No if otherwise.

            • 3. Re: HD vs. 4K Video resolution questions
              josephs51576386 Level 3

              Shooter has basically already touched on the main issue, but I'm going to go over them a bit more.

               

              For broadcast TV aka (OTA) each TV station has roughly 19.3Mbps of bandwidth. In order to achieve a decent looking picture for 1920x1080i 29.97 (59.94 fields) you have to have that channels bitrate running anywhere from 11-14.5Mbps. This also greatly depends on what type of content you air as well. Then you also have to consider that a most stations in the USA have subchannels and some of them attempt to run two HD channels which is going to basically take up all their bandwidth for the most part even if they use 720p60. Then you also have a good amount of channels that chose to run one main HD channel and then up to three SD subchannels. So as you can understand this is obviously already taking up all the bandwidth each TV  station is currently given. Even if you use what is commonly referred to as a "stat mux" in the broadcast engineering world you still wouldn't be able to pull off airing 4k resolution OTA without exceeding your bandwidth.

               

              Then there is also another problem which has already been addressed which is the fact that currently the amount of money it takes to produce displays that actually support 4k are currently expensive enough that almost nobody who is a regular home user would have ANY interest in buying one. The other reason though is simply that people have really just begun widely adopting 1920x1080 TV sets. Many people who own LCD's still actually don't even have a LCD that actually supports anything higher than 1280x720. So this is another factor. I also believe most TV stations aren't going to be in a hurry to upgrade all over again just yet. There are several TV stations who still haven't even completed upgrading to HD, so obviously they aren't going to make the jump to 4k anytime soon even if just for this one single reason alone.

               

              Another possible issue with stations broadcasting in 4k is that it would cause several issues for stations who currently have a lot of older 720x480 4x3 aspect ratio content. They would have to somehow upconvert from 720x480 to 4k resolution. Which given how good current upconverters work, I don't see that turning out very well. When you're using a high quality up converter you can do pretty nice SD to 1920x1080HD upconversions but it's still usually noticable that it's not real HD content when you look at it on a large screen. So then the issue would be that several stations would have to stop using all their 720x480 content. Which isn't something a lot of places are going to want to do. Smaller TV stations especially since a lot of them have air time clients that don't have good equiptment and still turn in SD only material at this point. (So this point somewhat goes back to slow adoption speed)

               

              Now to answer your second question, it shouldn't cause any issues for you to make a larger than 1920x1080 sequence and then just scale down when you're finished. However I always like editing with photos that are larger than my sequence so I can "pan and scan" them and do things to make them look more interesting since I have the "extra pixels" to work with when doing so. Like shoot correctly said if you have the HP on your system go for it, if not don't.

              • 4. Re: HD vs. 4K Video resolution questions
                Rallymax-forum Level 3

                media kat wrote:

                 

                I was taking some still photos with my iPhone at 3264 x 2448 for a PP project and it had me thinking. HD video is only 1920 x 1080, which is much less resolution than a basic still shot from an iPhone.

                 

                1. Why is 1920 x 1080 HD resolution the high quality standard and not 4k video camera resolution? Is this currently a limitation of display devices and price, or is there some other reason?

                 

                Yes. Infrastructure was dragged up to 1920x1080 over two generations. It'll take another generation to pull it up to 4k. there are already 4k displays and cameras so it'll happen faster than last time.

                 

                4K capture, processing and display is around us. The distribution is the weak link at the moment

                Having said that, just as TV shows destined for SD broadcast were shot on 35mm film (which has far higher resolution than Standard Definition (720x480) ), 4K cameras are being used as the primary shooting camera for TV shows that are broadcast in HD (eg Arri Alexia is very popular for TV dramas - eg Burn Notice).

                 

                Display devices - yes that's an issue

                 

                Price - yes, 4k cameras and workflow is still very high $$$

                 

                other reason - yes, it takes time for the public to adopt the new technology. The ability to broadcast it is the biggest issue right now.

                 

                media kat wrote:

                 

                I was taking some still photos with my iPhone at 3264 x 2448 for a PP project and it had me thinking. HD video is only 1920 x 1080, which is much less resolution than a basic still shot from an iPhone.

                 

                1. Why is 1920 x 1080 HD resolution the high quality standard and not 4k video camera resolution? Is this currently a limitation of display devices and price, or is there some other reason?

                2. Can I make a 4k still image project in PP based on a resolution of something like 4096 × 2048 and than just downconvert when I'm done? Are there any issues with working with lots of stills of that size in the program?

                 

                 

                Thanks.

                Yup, edit in one of the RED formats or make a custom sequence using the industry standard 4K resolutions.

                Alternately if you know you're using only the iPhone camera photos (not video) make a sequence that matches that resolution.

                 

                - For example I made a 4K timelapse using DSLR photos then down converted the 4K sequence to 1080p. (http://youtu.be/hK53CYs8pDY)

                • 5. Re: HD vs. 4K Video resolution questions
                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                  Dont forget the cost and investment broadcasters have to make just to replace their Mpeg encoders/transmitters. There are still quite a few that have not upgraded to Mpeg4 versions that handle HD encoding.


                  Eric

                  ADK

                  • 6. Re: HD vs. 4K Video resolution questions
                    josephs51576386 Level 3

                    Agreed, the station where I work is one of them. Ours is a mpeg-2 ADTEC media hub pro 2.

                    We are just now completing our air signal upgrade to HD. We have had HD studio stuff now for around 6 months give or take. The transmitter stuff is just now being completed.