15 Replies Latest reply on Oct 28, 2012 12:42 PM by Mercthebrit

    multi - cam editing

    Cosmosnarf

      When choosing camera angles in the multi-camera monitor you have to hit play first. Some instructions tell you to hit the record button instead. what is the difference?

        • 1. Re: multi - cam editing
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          Play will simply play, Record will record your angle changes.

           

          However, you will automatically go into record mode when playing if you change the angle.

          • 2. Re: multi - cam editing
            DMH79 Level 2

            And sadly, when you hit stop or pause the record button is toggled. Whenever the record button is toggled it makes a cut in the timeline. SO...essentially when you stop Adobe has set it up so that it makes an unintended cut and then...wait for it...it will also switches angle on you back to Angle #1 causing you to have to quickly select the angle you really wanted to stop on. Oh boy do I hope that gets fixed because the proposed workaround does NOT work. But I digress...

             

            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1069438?start=0&tstart=0

             

            I'm banned from talking about this so I'll stop. For now . Other than this major design flaw, multicam works great. Good luck.

            • 3. Re: multi - cam editing
              Cosmosnarf Level 1

              Wow, that seems strange. Why have a record button at all? But perhaps that is the workaround to the comment below which is the pause button issue taht changes camera angles. When I use the play button it doesn;'t seem to change the camera angles to something I don't want.

              • 4. Re: multi - cam editing
                Cosmosnarf Level 1

                You're banned from talking about this? What does that mean? Making too many waves? maybe they shoud fix it instead of banning people who complain?

                But does the play button fix this issue Instead of using the record button to make your camera angle changes?

                • 5. Re: multi - cam editing
                  ExactImage Level 3

                  Cosmosnarf wrote:

                   

                  When choosing camera angles in the multi-camera monitor you have to hit play first. Some instructions tell you to hit the record button instead. what is the difference?

                  What?    No you dont.   We never cut while it's playing OR recording 

                   

                  We go to the cut point, pause, tinker back and forth with the frames if we want, change angle and carry on

                   

                  BTW - in CS6 we also changed the shortcut keys back to 1,2,3,4 instead of Alt-1, Alt-2 etc.

                   

                  The reason we don't cut while playing is for the reasons above, when you pause it changes back to the wrong camera!

                  • 6. Re: multi - cam editing
                    Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                    Cosmosnarf wrote:

                     

                    You're banned from talking about this? What does that mean? Making too many waves? maybe they shoud fix it instead of banning people who complain?

                    But does the play button fix this issue Instead of using the record button to make your camera angle changes?

                    Yes, you don't want to get DMH79 started with this. However, he's not banned, but he did rant in a thread he created and that caused us to lock that post. Then he started a new post on the very same topic, so we locked that one too. He's very passionate about multicamera, and if you are too, I'd make the same suggestion: create a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                     

                    Basically, you have to tap the 0 key (Record On/Off toggle) if you do not want Premiere Pro to create a new cut back to CAM 1 when pressing the Space Bar (Play/Stop). To me, it's not a huge deal. I'm already used to it (me, a former FCP instructor and on the FCP team at Apple).

                     

                    That's how our multicamera monitor works right now, and is just different than FCP. I'm fairly certain the workflow won't be changed between now and our next version, so make your request now.

                     

                    I can confirm that the toggle works in OS X 10.6, OS X 10.7, and OS X 10.8, so I find it a bit odd that some have reported that with certain versions of OS X, the Record On/Off toggle doesn't work. If the "0" key won't toggle for you, please make a bug report: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                    • 7. Re: multi - cam editing
                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                      Question asked and answered in this thread:

                       

                      Adobe Community: Premiere Pro CS6 - Multicam is BROKEN!!! vs FCPX, (Final Cut Pro) FCP7, Avid, Sony Vegas

                       

                      If the discussion here begins to mirror the discussion there, this topic will be locked as well.  If anyone has other questions about how multi-cam actually works or is supposed to work, then please continue to post.

                       

                      Jeff

                       

                      EDIT: Kevin summarized the gist of the topic to which I linked better than a Reader's Digest Condensed Book!

                      • 8. Re: multi - cam editing
                        DMH79 Level 2

                        Cosmosnarf wrote:

                         

                        You're banned from talking about this? What does that mean? Making too many waves? maybe they shoud fix it instead of banning people who complain?

                        But does the play button fix this issue Instead of using the record button to make your camera angle changes?

                        I'd say banned is a harsh term, but yeah. My thread was closed down and locked and they basically said move on. I tried opening up a new thread simply to say what they marked as the CORRECT answer is NOT correct but they closed and locked that thread too and said that any other threads about the topic would be deleted. It didn't make them look good to have a thread like that. It's like when there's a bad accident and the cop says: "keep moving, nothing to see here". This isn't an issue for everyone, but it was to many of us and it had been documented for two years with no action so I figured I'd try to make it a little more "visible" to attract attention. Well that worked. Too well I guess.

                         

                        To answer your other question, the play button starts the multicam sequence playing. Then, AFTER you make your first angle change, the record button begins recording all your new angle changes. You can toggle on/off the record button at anytime by either hitting record or the keyboard shortcut "0". Hitting stop or pause while the multicam is recording will toggle off the record button as well. The problem is that when the record button is toggled off either directly  (which was the workaround they falsely marked as correct) or indirectly (by hitting stop/pause), that's precisely where it makes a cut is made and the angle is switched back to the Angle 1 whether you like it or not. Other than like, like I said, Multicam seems to work great. I tend to sync my two clips in a timeline, then right click on it and Nest it. Then, I right click again and select Multicam>Enable. Done. That way all my audio sources (when I shoot there are often several mics/audio sources) are visble and not combined into one pointless track. It works. Just wish it didn't have the one major design flaw is all.

                        • 9. Re: multi - cam editing
                          DMH79 Level 2

                          Jeff Bellune wrote:

                           

                          Question asked and answered in this thread:

                           

                          Adobe Community: Premiere Pro CS6 - Multicam is BROKEN!!! vs FCPX, (Final Cut Pro) FCP7, Avid, Sony Vegas

                           

                          If the discussion here begins to mirror the discussion there, this topic will be locked as well.  If anyone has other questions about how multi-cam actually works or is supposed to work, then please continue to post.

                           

                          Jeff

                           

                          EDIT: Kevin summarized the gist of the topic to which I linked better than a Reader's Digest Condensed Book!

                           

                          Hi Jeff. How's your day going?

                          He wanted to knwo about the play and record button and how they worked. Hopefully my last post answered him.

                          Don't worry. I'm just here to be helpful is all and answer questions. I promise not to point out that the answer to the thread above is wrong any more.

                          • 10. Re: multi - cam editing
                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                            It didn't make them look good to have a thread like that. It's like when there's a bad accident and the cop says: "keep moving, nothing to see here". This isn't an issue for everyone, but it was to many of us and it had been documented for two years with no action so I figured I'd try to make it a little more "visible" to attract attention. Well that worked. Too well I guess.

                            Please note that the thread is still available for all to see and read.  I even linked to it in this topic.  If Adobe was trying to hide anything, the whole topic would have vanished.

                            what they marked as the CORRECT answer is NOT correct

                            I disagree.  That the feature is working as designed *is* the correct answer, as is the part about Adobe needing lots of feature requests to make changing the way the feature operates a priority for the engineers.

                             

                            Regardless, it is indeed time to move on and discuss other aspects of multi-cam in CS6.  And yes, I thought your description of how multi-cam actually functions in CS6 was very clear and well-written.  My day is going fine, too, and I hope yours is as well.

                             

                            Jeff

                            • 11. Re: multi - cam editing
                              DMH79 Level 2

                              Kevin Monahan wrote:

                               

                              Cosmosnarf wrote:

                               

                              You're banned from talking about this? What does that mean? Making too many waves? maybe they shoud fix it instead of banning people who complain?

                              But does the play button fix this issue Instead of using the record button to make your camera angle changes?

                              Yes, you don't want to get DMH79 started with this. However, he's not banned, but he did rant in a thread he created and that caused us to lock that post. Then he started a new post on the very same topic, so we locked that one too. He's very passionate about multicamera, and if you are too, I'd make the same suggestion: create a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                               

                              Basically, you have to tap the 0 key (Record On/Off toggle) if you do not want Premiere Pro to create a new cut back to CAM 1 when pressing the Space Bar (Play/Stop). To me, it's not a huge deal. I'm already used to it (me, a former FCP instructor and on the FCP team at Apple).

                               

                              That's how our multicamera monitor works right now, and is just different than FCP. I'm fairly certain the workflow won't be changed between now and our next version, so make your request now.

                               

                              I can confirm that the toggle works in OS X 10.6, OS X 10.7, and OS X 10.8, so I find it a bit odd that some have reported that with certain versions of OS X, the Record On/Off toggle doesn't work. If the "0" key won't toggle for you, please make a bug report: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                              Hi Kevin!

                               

                              You are great as always. Sincerely. And thank you for your attention and help. And I promise not to get "started" on this again

                               

                              You said: "Basically, you have to tap the 0 key (Record On/Off toggle) if you do not want Premiere Pro to create a new cut back to CAM 1 when pressing the Space Bar (Play/Stop)."

                               

                              That is correct. However, toggling off the record actually is the culprit of the extra/unintended cut and angle change. If it wasn't, I would definitely adapt and work with that. But wherever you toggle off the record is where the infamous unintended cut/angle change is made. I thought maybe it was just me but I had someone test on a PC and it did it there too. I promise not to rant. This is just new information that I felt makes the answer to that thread inaccurate. Yes, technically that "answer" makes it so the stop and pause don't cause the cuts/angle change. BUT wherever you previously toggled off the record you'll have that cut/angle change so there's no way around the issue. With no way around, it can't be called a workaround.

                               

                              I guess you could call ExactImage's solution above the only "workaround" and just never use the live switching feature. Bummer.

                               

                              Knowing its not gonna be fixed anytime soon is good to know but sad to hear. Thanks Kevin for that info.

                               

                              Cosmosnarf, please fill out a "bug"...er, I mean "feature request" (cough, cough) as suggested to have the record toggle not make cuts when stopping.

                              • 12. Re: multi - cam editing
                                DMH79 Level 2

                                Jeff Bellune wrote:

                                 

                                what they marked as the CORRECT answer is NOT correct

                                I disagree.  That the feature is working as designed *is* the correct answer, as is the part about Adobe needing lots of feature requests to make changing the way the feature operates a priority for the engineers.

                                 

                                Regardless, it is indeed time to move on and discuss other aspects of multi-cam in CS6.  And yes, I thought your description of how multi-cam actually functions in CS6 was very clear and well-written.  My day is going fine, too, and I hope yours is as well.

                                 

                                Jeff

                                 

                                See my post to Kevin. So yes, technically its not the stop/pause that's the issue. Should I start a new thread about the record button (when it's toggled off) being the actual culprit of the unintended cuts/angle changes? That is actually the real issue.

                                 

                                Glad to hear you day is going fine. Mine is too thank you. (chuckle) You'll be happy to know that I'm here in good spirits today and was looking for help elsewhere on other topics and only looked at this thread to help others understand how multicam functions. I just got through teaching somone else CS6 so I do recommend it, but they sure do know about this issue. Ha! There's a lot of good with how multicam functions. You are right. Having only one really bad flaw is actually pretty good for a major feature of a program.

                                • 13. Re: multi - cam editing
                                  Mercthebrit

                                  Re: Multicam is broken.

                                   

                                  Hi DMH79


                                  I don't know why they closed your thread on this topic. I think it's an important feature that they need to get right otherwise new potential buyers such as myself will go elsewhere. Hitting 'stop' should mean stop and it's ridiculous that a cut is added and the camera angle changes.... Why???

                                  I've worked on national network TV drama for many years and have never seen such a 'feature' added to the stop key in this way. If an editor requires something of this nature then Adobe should create another button separate to the stop key that performs this function. Or let the editor create their own macro, simple as that! I know that everyone works differently but don't add fixed multiple actions to a key assuming that it's what everyone requires. The basics functions of are so important!

                                  I currently use Avid and up until recently FCP 7... until Apple killed and replaced it with it's 'prosumer' FCPX. Therefore I thought I'd give Premiere Pro CS6 a try. If you're correct about this Premiere Pro multicam 'feature' then it has definitely made me think twice and it will undoubtably have an impact on whether I decide to buy Adobe Creative Suite 6 Production Premium as well. I'll check out some tutorials on Premieres multicam and decide if I can work around it or not but I fear I'm wasting my time.

                                   

                                  Oh and with the kindest respect Jeff, I don't think it's time to move on with this topic. If it wasn't for post's such as these I and many other editors wouldn't be able to make an informed choice on whether to purchase this software or not.

                                   

                                  All the best to one and all.

                                  • 14. Re: multi - cam editing
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                    Oh and with the kindest respect Jeff, I don't think it's time to move on with this topic. If it wasn't for post's such as these I and many other editors wouldn't be able to make an informed choice on whether to purchase this software or not.

                                    Then I'm glad you were able to search the forum, find the topic in question, and use the information there to help you make an informed decision.  Please note that the topic in question was locked, not deleted, and the arguments against the way the feature works are still in place, as is the Adobe response that the feature is working as designed.

                                     

                                    If you disagree with the way the feature works, then you should file a feature request here:

                                     

                                    Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                                     

                                    Jeff

                                    • 15. Re: multi - cam editing
                                      Mercthebrit Level 1

                                      Jeff Bellune wrote:

                                      Then I'm glad you were able to search the forum, find the topic in question, and use the information there to help you make an informed decision.  Please note that the topic in question was locked, not deleted, and the arguments against the way the feature works are still in place, as is the Adobe response that the feature is working as designed.

                                      Hi Jeff

                                       

                                      I understand that the topic wasn't deleted and you're quite right it was a simple matter of searching the forum to find the info. I will still have a look at the trial version of the software and make up my own mind but it does seem like a strange feature for Adobe to adopt even though it's working as they intended. I will also provide my thoughts to Adobe for future feature requests should my company decide to purchase and use their software.

                                       

                                      Best wishes.