20 Replies Latest reply on Oct 26, 2012 12:41 PM by Peter B. Bailey

    Can't figure out someone else's ID file

    Peter B. Bailey Level 1

      Hello,

      I work for a publishing company. We use a Unix-based composition system based on SGML. Sometimes I have to help with outside data coming into the company. I've got an InDesign file here from the outside world that I'm converting to RTF and then sending through our workflows to get to SGML I'm baffled by this InDesign file. It has paragraph styles that visually suggest the use of particular style attributes that I'm not seeing in the actual paragraph styles when I call them up. For example, there's a paragraph that has a rule above and below it. And, it's got a unique paragraph style. But, when I open up that style, I see no rules above or rules below defined. How in the world did the person who created this get these rules then? When I'm in the paragraph and I use the pulldown at the upper far right, again I don't see any paragraph rules defined. When I select all on the page, the rules aren't selected, so, they're definitely part of the paragraph. I show it in my screenshot below where I'm in the paragraph with the paragraph style selected and opened up.

       

      Another thing that bugs me about this file is the use of small graphics peppered throughout the document. I can't select them. No matter what I do, I honestly can't select these graphics. They're not on the master page. When I select all on a page with some of these graphics, none of the graphics are lit up. Any combination of command, shift, and/or option don't select it either.

       

      I've exported to IDML and brought the file back in, but, it behaves in the same way.

       

      Thanks,

      Peter

       

      clipboard.jpg

        • 1. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
          Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Is the text in a table?

           

          For the images - check the layers panel and see if any of the layers are locked.

          There's also an option in Preferences to allow selection of locked objects.

          • 2. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
            Peter B. Bailey Level 1

            Man I feel stupid. Yup, there are layers. And, there's one for clipart. And, that's where they are. Sorry about that.

             

            The text is in a layer of its own. But, paragraph style wise, it's still behaving as described.

            • 3. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Have you tried to select the rules with the direct select tool? They might be anchored objects, or part of a group containing that example text that is anchored .

               

              Or they might be applied to the paragraphs above and below the text they set out. It would help to see non-printing characters, and maybe text threads, in the screen capture.

              • 4. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                The rules could be applied to the paragraph via the Paragraph panel and not be part of the style. In that case there would be a + sign next to the style in the Paragraph Style panel:

                 

                Screen shot 2012-10-26 at 7.46.31 AM.png

                • 5. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                  Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                  No, the direct select tool does nothing regarding the rules. And, there's no plus sign next to the paragraph style in the palette.

                  Here's another screenshot, with non-printing characters and text threads displayed. I wish there was a way here to simply stick my ID file here so that you all could just see it.

                  Thanks.

                   

                  Clipboard.jpg

                  • 6. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    Do you see the end of story marker at the end of the example text? That's telling me its an anchored frame in it's own paragraph (looks line an inline as I don't see any anchored oject marker). Try selecting the paragtaph marker at the end of the rule below to see what style is applied to the paragraph holding the anchored object.

                    • 7. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                      Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                      Here's that part of the paragraph blown up, with the last paragraph marker selected. The paragraph marker does indeed have a different paragraph style, but, that style also doesn't have any rules defined.

                       

                      Clipboard.jpg

                      • 8. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Did you check to see if the rules were applied to the paragaphs above and below the anchored object?

                         

                        Can you post this page someplace to examine?

                        • 9. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                          peter minneapolis Level 4

                          The style reports feature in the commercial Blatner Tools suite InDesign from dtptools.com may be helpful in quickly revealing what paragraph (or other styles) properties are on/off. There's a free trial.

                           

                           

                          HTH

                           

                           

                          Regards,

                           

                           

                          Peter

                          _______________________

                          Peter Gold

                          KnowHow ProServices

                          • 10. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                            Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                            OK. I downloaded and installed the Blatner tools. Here's a screenshot of that paragraph style. And, yes, there are rules above and below the paragraph in this interface. But, it appears that these Blatner tools modify my looking at the paragraph styles in my regular fashion now. When I simply choose to edit the style now, the interface looks like the Blatner one! And, in that interface, there's not even a choice for modifying the rules. What's that about? And, why in the world would I have to depend on a tool like this to see what's really, really, really in this paragraph style?

                             

                            Clipboard.jpg

                            • 11. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              I don't use Blatner tools, so I'm not in a position to discuss that, but I doo find it disturbing that ID itself doesn't seem to be seing the rule settings in the style. That makes me worry that either the file is corrupt or your prefs might be.

                              • 12. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                Yeh, I agree. It is weird. I did export the file as IDML and bring it back in, but, everything's still the same. I just e-mailed dtptools so I hope to hear from them soon. Cheers.

                                • 13. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                  peter minneapolis Level 4

                                  So now there are three guys named "Peter" working on the same problem, eh?

                                   

                                  There's something really wrong in your screenshot, ergo, also in your particular machine/installation operation. (Not your fault.) The title of the dialog box in your screenshot is "Paragraph Style Options," but the properties panel shows CHARACTER style properties!

                                   

                                  Here's what I get in the Paragraph Style Options dialog box, in ID CS6 8.0.1 on Mac Powerbook Pro with OS X 10.6.8 with a recently downloaded Blatner Tools 1.0 (InDesign > About Plug-ins > DTP Tools > Blatner Tools (all the components are dated in recent months of 2012):

                                   

                                  parastyleblatner.jpg

                                   

                                  My Blatner Tools is licensed, but I don't think that accounts for the different results. I don't know what might cause it. DTP Tools support may have a suggestion, or thank you for finding a bug. They're on European time, so a response might take a while, but they are diligent about answering questions.

                                   

                                  Also, have you tried creating a paragraph style report with Type > Create Paragraph Style Report? My earlier suggestion was that the report would give you info about all or selected properties of all or selected paragraph styles in one click. Try it with and without the hierarchy option. 

                                   

                                  HTH

                                   

                                   

                                  Regards,

                                   

                                   

                                  Peter

                                  _______________________

                                  Peter Gold

                                  KnowHow ProServices

                                   

                                  Peter Britt Bailey wrote:

                                   

                                  OK. I downloaded and installed the Blatner tools. Here's a screenshot of that paragraph style. And, yes, there are rules above and below the paragraph in this interface. But, it appears that these Blatner tools modify my looking at the paragraph styles in my regular fashion now. When I simply choose to edit the style now, the interface looks like the Blatner one! And, in that interface, there's not even a choice for modifying the rules. What's that about? And, why in the world would I have to depend on a tool like this to see what's really, really, really in this paragraph style?

                                   

                                  Clipboard.jpg

                                  • 14. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                    Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                    Yes, I ran the Blatner paragraph report. It did indeed show that this paragraph style had rules, above and below. But, like I said, I wouldn't know that by looking at the paragraph style itself. In there, there are no rules.

                                    • 15. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                      Larry G. Schneider Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      My question is the Rule really active in his Paragraph Style?Clipboard.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                        Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                        No. That's my point. It's not shown in the paragraph style under the paragraph rules parameter. But, it does show up in the "general" view of the style.

                                        • 17. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                          peter minneapolis Level 4

                                          Going back to my comment that your paragraph style dialog box is goofy - that's the problem. Characters don't have rule above/below, only paragraphs do.

                                           

                                          [EDIT] Ooops, forgot to suggest that despite the IDML round trip, perhaps something in the original source file survived the original conversion and the IDML cleanup. It's possible this could cause the display problem. You might want to try cutting the file into separate files to see if the problem exists in one or all. [/EDIT]

                                           

                                          You might want to try "trashing" your ID preferences to see if a corruption there is affecting the display. However, you might not want to lose all your existing preferences, if trashing doesn't fix the problem.  Search Google for terms like "save trash restore InDesign preferences," and "InDesign preference file location," without quotes.

                                           

                                          [EDIT] Other possible strategies:

                                           

                                          * Create a new file and define the same styles with the same names, then from a style panel's menu use Load <style type; paragraph, character, etc.>, and specify the source file, choose mapping options to replace existing styles in the receiving file (the problem file) with the new definitions.

                                           

                                          * Create a new or open a known-good file and display the paragraph style options dialog to see if the corrupt display persists.

                                           

                                          * You've probably already restarted ID one or more times, and even perhaps restarted your computer, with no relief, right?[/EDIT]

                                           

                                          Perhaps someone on the forum has the links handy and can post them?

                                           

                                           

                                          HTH

                                           

                                           

                                          Regards,

                                           

                                           

                                          Peter

                                          _______________________

                                          Peter Gold

                                          KnowHow ProServices

                                           

                                          Message was edited by: peter at knowhowpro

                                          • 18. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                            Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                            I understand what you're saying, but, I looked at the screenshots I sent and I only saw paragraph styles, not character styles. I talked with a great guy named Jan at dtptools. He thinks that my file is simply corrupted.

                                             

                                            Cheers.

                                             

                                            Peter Bailey

                                            Bloomberg BNA

                                            1801 S. Bell St.

                                            Arlington, VA 22202

                                            703-341-3126

                                            • 19. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                              peter minneapolis Level 4

                                              Your screenshot only displays character properties, and it's got the General category at the bottom, not at the top, so I took it to be a corrupted hybrid of the character and paragraph style dialog boxes

                                               

                                              Yes, Jan's great with support on all the DTP products - good info, and prompt.

                                               

                                              So, you don't have these problems with new or other files not from this problematic source?

                                               

                                              Have you looked at the file's pedigree with Cmd+Click on InDesign > About InDesign on Mac (Ctrl+Click on Windows)? There may be a clue in the past events in this file's life.

                                               

                                               

                                              HTH

                                               

                                               

                                              Regards,

                                               

                                               

                                              Peter

                                              _______________________

                                              Peter Gold

                                              KnowHow ProServices

                                               

                                              Peter Britt Bailey wrote:

                                               

                                              I understand what you're saying, but, I looked at the screenshots I sent and I only saw paragraph styles, not character styles. I talked with a great guy named Jan at dtptools. He thinks that my file is simply corrupted.

                                               

                                              Cheers.

                                               

                                              Peter Bailey

                                              Bloomberg BNA

                                              1801 S. Bell St.

                                              Arlington, VA 22202

                                              703-341-3126

                                              • 20. Re: Can't figure out someone else's ID file
                                                Peter B. Bailey Level 1

                                                I've really only had this problem with this file and this file alone. Jan had me blow away my preferences, too, and, that didn't help either.

                                                 

                                                I'm going to try your "file pedigree" suggestions.

                                                 

                                                Thanks, Peter.

                                                 

                                                Cheers.

                                                 

                                                Peter Bailey

                                                Bloomberg BNA

                                                1801 S. Bell St.

                                                Arlington, VA 22202

                                                703-341-3126