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1. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
JSS1138 Oct 26, 2012 8:38 AM (in response to tikigod19)1) In my experience, only the high end models ($2000 and up) will actually show the full raster. Every other HDTV I've calibrated still shows overscan. So I'm not sure this is something you will get in a 32" model. I assume you will also want the external for proper CC/grading, in which case you'll want something that's fairly accurate after calibration. You may want to look at a plasma instead of an LCD.
2) If you pick up a 5.1 A/V receiver, you can plug in both a separate player and your computer via coax.
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2. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
ECBowen Oct 26, 2012 10:59 AM (in response to tikigod19)I can't find a 32 inch but if a 40 inch works then this should be what you are looking for.
Normally the TV's that have a PC input that supports 1920x1080 resolutions have the option to turn off the overscan.
Eric
ADK -
3. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 26, 2012 1:36 PM (in response to ECBowen)thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it.
Jim Simon.. What exactly would happen if I couldn't get a TV where I could turn overscan off? I know I'm meant to avoid it but don't fully understand the disadvantage of it...
Yes I'll use it largely for CC/grading but I've read the Matrox MXO2 has software to calibrate a consumer TV. Is the MXO2 still one of the best low cost options? I'd certainly prefer plasma if I could get it as I've always liked plasma, however they're just not available in 32" from what I can see.
On the surround sound thing, does it ned to be an A/V receiver and seperate player or could I use a DVD surround sound all in one kit with a coaxial input (To plug the PC in)? Also, would the cable that goes into the amp come from the PC sound card or the MXO2?
ECBowen... thanks very much. To be honest I think 32" is going to be a little bit too big, so I'm sure 40" would be. I've googled both of those models and they seem very difficult to get hold of the in the UK also.
Really keen to get this mess sorted in the next week and make some purchases so I'd appreciate any more advice you or anybody else can give!
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4. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
JSS1138 Oct 26, 2012 4:44 PM (in response to tikigod19)What exactly would happen if I couldn't get a TV where I could turn overscan off?
It just means you won't see the full image, as was the norm with CRT sets, and is still the norm today with flat panels. Not a huge deal, really. My own Sony high def CRT that I use for review exhibits overscan.
The device you use for surround decoding isn't important, so long as it can take your input. I suggested the receiver because most of them will have the necessary inputs.
I'm not familiar with the MX02, so I don't know if you'd take an audio feed from that or from the sound card.
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5. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 26, 2012 11:08 PM (in response to JSS1138)thanks jim so its basically that feature where you can cycle through all of the aspect ratios are you sure that the picture doesn't just reduce and squash it down automatically to compensate as I can imagine that would look pretty ugly, like even you use the wrong resolution on a desktop PC
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6. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Alan Craven Oct 27, 2012 7:04 AM (in response to tikigod19)The Matrox MXO2 has an HDMI output to the monitor with the usual 8 channel embedded audio. It also has L-R audio output via phono sockets.
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7. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 7:11 AM (in response to Alan Craven)thanks Alan. I didnt realise it didn't have a coaxial or optical output. This would mean I could not use an AV amp unless I plug into it directly from my sound card but it appears that doesnt have a coaxial or optical output either so I think in terms of surround sound the only solution would be to buy a 5.1 PC speaker kit that connects by the different coloured 3.5mm sockets (do these kits even exist though..?) on the sound card and then find a piece of software that can confirm an authored BD and DVD folder is in 5.1 and not stereo. I will still end up connecting a bluray to the 32" TV to check the burned projects though.. just a shame that as I see it, I wont be able to confirm if they're in 5.1 when playing on thie bluray player..
That explanation is far too complex, but I dont think I can do what I want to do unless I buy a new sound card with coaxial or optical output.
I take it I can output sound via a sound cards coaxial socket and picture through the HDMI output on the MXO2 ok?
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8. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 27, 2012 7:34 AM (in response to tikigod19) -
9. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
JSS1138 Oct 27, 2012 8:18 AM (in response to tikigod19)are you sure that the picture doesn't just reduce and squash it down automatically to compensate
Huh?
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10. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
JSS1138 Oct 27, 2012 8:24 AM (in response to tikigod19)This would mean I could not use an AV amp unless I plug into it directly from my sound card
These days, most A/V receivers have HDMI inputs, so passing the output of the MX02 into that should work fine. You can also hook up the Blu-ray via HDMI to the same receiver, and get 5.1 out of both sources simply by switching inputs on the receiver. A third HDMI cable to the TV and you're good to go.
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11. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 8:32 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Harm,
Would the GTX570 I already have be any good do you think? It does have 2x DVI and a mini HDMI on it...
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12. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 8:35 AM (in response to JSS1138)Jim,
That makes sense but I assumed that if it's tough to find a TV that doesn't introduce overscan, it might be equally tough to find a HDMI enabled AV amp that doesn't do it... That and the fact that there'd be an extra (really large) box (the AV Amp) in quite a small room, so ideally wanted to avoid that if possible.
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13. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 27, 2012 8:40 AM (in response to tikigod19)The Fermi cards can only use two connections out of the three at the same time, so the plain answer is no. You need a Kepler card for that, but the bright side of it is that performance is generally better, energy consumption is lower and it saves you the MXO2. I went from a GTX 480 to a GTX 680 in a new system (the old one is still intact) but it really is much faster, less loud and more energy friendly, while at the same time it steers up to 4 monitors. All +'es in my book.
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14. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 8:47 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)thanks Harm, seems a good idea.. So there'd be no risk of Overscan or quality drop on the 32" LED when compared to the MXO2?
Just to confirm that neither Fermi or Kepler are BRANDS, so any GTX 660ti card would be Kepler and therefore be able to do what you say?
The prospect of a 4th monitor being added would be a lovely thing to have in the bank for the future.. Why don't more people do it this way instead of the Matrox, other than the portability of Matrox?
I've read the matrox comes with software to calibrate the LED TV to do accurate colour correction on it, would this be very difficult using the GTX 660ti option?
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15. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 27, 2012 9:14 AM (in response to tikigod19)Kepler is the name of the GPU used on the GTX 6xx series and the K series of the Quadro. Fermi is for the GT(X) series of the 5xx generation. So, all 6xx nVidia cards are of the Kepler architecture and can steer 4 monitors. For calibrating your monitors, I suggest Spyder4Elite, see http://spyder.datacolor.com/portfolio-view/spyder4elite/ but be aware that for calibrating the TV you need an additional paid plug-in.
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16. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 9:15 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)thanks that's all clear do you know how much the plugin is and what it is is it called?
No issues with the 660ti and cuda for hardware acceleration in cs6?
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17. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 27, 2012 9:22 AM (in response to tikigod19)See http://spyder.datacolor.com/portfolio-view/spyder4tv-hd-upgrade/ No issues with the 660 Ti, or the 670 once you apply the 'hack', which is a simple text edit with Notepad.
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18. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 9:29 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Harm thank you so much, not for the first time on the internet you've made my mind up! It'll be either the GTX660ti, 670 or 680 once I look at the advantages for the price difference.
Now I just need to get my head around the audio issue and decide whether to go for the AV amp with HDMI in and out as Jim suggested or to go simpler with a 5.1 speaker kit, a bluray connected to the TV without 5.1 and then some sort of software to check the audio on my authored discs to confirm if they correctly author in 5.1 (my authoring process means that if I forget to do one step when encoding, the whole disc is only created in stereo)
Oh.. and I might also look into 4 monitor racks to mount my 4 (yes Harm, i'll no doubt end up with another 24" tft thanks to you!) monitor system!
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19. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 11:51 AM (in response to tikigod19)Harm, I've just had a thought.. will the GTX6** cards output full screen to the TV without having to buy any other software? I don't want to just extend the desktop onto the 3rd screen (the TV) and then unlock the output window and drag it over there. I've noticed you havent done this in your photo, you have it outputting full screen which I know you can do with the matrox so just wanted to check how you go about this when using the graphics card option instead of the matrox?
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20. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 27, 2012 12:46 PM (in response to tikigod19) -
21. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 12:48 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)but won't that just extend the desktop onto the third screen? Is there any configuration needed within premiere to set the output window to be duplicated onto the third screen?
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22. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 27, 2012 12:58 PM (in response to tikigod19) -
23. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 27, 2012 1:17 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)i appreciate you taking the time to take the screenshots Harm. Just to confirm 100% sure before I make a purchase, you can get the full quality full screen output window on your third screen without any playback controls or surrounding windows borders or anything like that?
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24. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 27, 2012 1:18 PM (in response to tikigod19)Yes.
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25. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 28, 2012 8:43 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Thanks harm. At the risk of sounding lazy, 660ti, 670 or 680? I've done a fair bit of research and talk of incompatibility issues with cs6 has worried me.. Price not a major issue but don't want to spend £120 more for little benefit
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26. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 28, 2012 9:37 AM (in response to tikigod19)I have the 680 running nicely. I even managed a 1 second rendering score on the http://ppbm5.com/DB-PPBM5-2.php but have to be honest, it usually varied a bit between 1 and 2 seconds, with 7 out of 10 giving 1 second and the remaining 3 tries giving 2 seconds. This is due to an inherent measurement error of Windows, that can only measure in distinct seconds values, so it could well be that I measured 7 times 1.46 seconds and three times 1.52 seconds, but I put that down as a measurement of 1 second in my favor. My situation may not be everyone's. I decided go for the best video card in the Kepler range but not the Quadro range, since I only have 8 bit monitors and there is no sense in spending money on Quadro cards, when I don't need 10 bit output. If I were to choose again and budget was a serious consideration, I would first look at the 660 TI, then the 670 and finally at the 680. The performance differences are very small, but the price differences favor the 660 TI, IMO.
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27. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 28, 2012 11:30 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)thanks harm, as long as there is not a performance.drop between my existing gtx570 and the gtx660ti then that's the one for me!me
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28. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
JSS1138 Oct 28, 2012 2:44 PM (in response to tikigod19)it might be equally tough to find a HDMI enabled AV amp that doesn't do it
Only the actual TV will or will not display overscan. No other devices in the chain will affect that.
However, you're right about the bulk of the receiver.
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29. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 28, 2012 11:27 PM (in response to JSS1138)thanks Jim, would love to continue this discussion to get my 5.1 set up sorted and that will mean I'm all ready to go.
I don't think I can use an AV amp for these reasons:
The bulk/size
The fact I hve now purchased a GTX660ti and wont be using MXO2 (therefore I presume I wont be sending 6 channel or more audio from the graphics card HDMI out)
I have no coaxial or optical output on my sound card - just the different coloured 3.5mm sockets.
Therefore I think the only option is to buy a 5.1 PC speaker set to monitor and edit in 5.1 (I know premiere is properly calibrated as it worked fine with my 5.1 headset that I've now sold) but when I check discs playback ok on the bluray player, I wont be able to hear in 5.1. Not ideal but no huge issue.
My question would now be... can you buy 5.1 speaker kits for PC that have the different coloured audio jacks to connect to the sound card instead of a single coaxial or optical as I can't seem to find any?
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30. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 29, 2012 5:43 AM (in response to tikigod19)Ok I've confused myself slightly but I think I've now found a way of getting what I want..
Buy this speaker kit or similar which has an optical input, connect PC to it bia the orange black and green 3.5mm inputs and then connect the standalone bluray player to it via optical. When I want to edit set the speaker kit to the PC input, when i want to check discs, flip it over to the optical.
If it's that simple why on earth has it taken me this long to come up with it!
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31. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
Harm Millaard Oct 29, 2012 5:59 AM (in response to tikigod19)Could this possibly be of interest to you: http://microlab.com/?r=51systemen&st=full&id=369
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32. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 29, 2012 6:30 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)thanks Harm is there something that makes that particular model stand out as the logitech unit I found with 2x Optical inputs is looking more like the one for me, but I'm not sure if this one does anything different?
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33. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
ECBowen Oct 29, 2012 6:45 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Thank you very much Harm for showing others that you can Calibrate HDTV's on the HDMI without an I/O card via the HDMI on the video card.
Eric
ADK
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34. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 29, 2012 7:02 AM (in response to ECBowen)just found my bluray player does have coaxial OR optical output. I can't win...
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35. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 29, 2012 7:50 AM (in response to tikigod19)Harm, someone elsewhere has suggested this as it has HDMI input so I can plug my bluray into this, however, am I right in saying that with the GTX660ti the HDMI output would only be useable to output video and not the 5.1 audio from premiere as well?
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36. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
ECBowen Oct 29, 2012 7:53 AM (in response to tikigod19)That is a very nice find and interesting idea. It should work fine for what you are doing since they list HDMI 1.4 standard for the HDMI on the receiver.
Eric
ADK
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37. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 29, 2012 8:01 AM (in response to ECBowen)but how could I get 5.1 sound whilst editing from premiere cs5 into that speaker kit if my sound card has no coaxial or optical? I'd also need to be sure that the onkyo system doesn't 'create' 5.1 from a stereo source as I'm basically getting it primerally for the editing, but secondly to check that discs I produce have correctly authored and burned in 5.1 and not dropped down to stereo somewhere along the line as sometimes happens
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38. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
ECBowen Oct 29, 2012 8:05 AM (in response to tikigod19)That receiver unit has HDMI passthrough so you can run your HDMI from source into the receiver for the surround sound and then the video signal will passthrough from the receiver to the TV. The HDMI is what will carry your sound for Premiere or any other application. That is why the receiver unit has HDMI input ports and output ports.
Eric
ADK
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39. Re: setting up an editing studio - would like IO and 5.1
tikigod19 Oct 29, 2012 8:10 AM (in response to ECBowen)Eric,
Thanks, that makes sense but what I was unsure of and really want to clarify before I purchase is whether premiere actually has the ability to output 5.1 audio as well as video through the HDMI port on the GTX660ti.
Thinking outside of premiere also, if I go down this route, this HDMI will be the ONLY way I'm getting audio out of my PC so as long as I have the amp turned on, would audio from general windows, games, etc still come through the received (albeit maybe not in 5.1 - depending on what is being played by the PC). I assume this wouldn't be affected if I have the TV turned off as this will be acting as my third monitor and only used when editing, however I can't see that the Onkyo would need to establish a link between itself and the TV in order to play audio through it's own speakers.







