34 Replies Latest reply on Mar 11, 2008 2:11 PM by MonteKrause

    HREFs not written

    MonteKrause Level 1


      I'm exporting CSS layers and Fireworks slices as the source. There is a hot spot covering a sliced image. The hotspot has a URL tied to the properties of the hotspot. But no HREFs in HTML.

      So, I tried no hotspot but URLs tied to the properties of each slice I want hot. Again, no href's written into the HTML
        • 1. Re: HREFs not written
          JoeDaSilva Level 4
          Add them in Dreamweaver? Is this just a mockup you're making?
          • 2. Re: HREFs not written
            MonteKrause Level 1
            Joey,
            I know I can add them in Dreamweaver, why are they not being written to the Fireworks HTML? In the browser preview they are. The preview uses tables.
            You are implying there is a bug. I miss Image Ready
            • 3. Re: HREFs not written
              Level 7
              Montemedia wrote:
              > Joey,
              > I know I can add them in Dreamweaver, why are they not being written to the
              > Fireworks HTML? In the browser preview they are. The preview uses tables.
              > You are implying there is a bug. I miss Image Ready
              >

              There is no bug. I do interactive click throughs all the time using FW.
              I just marked an assignment from a group of 18 students who did the same
              thing, each one successful.

              Provide a file so we can more accurately diagnose what the problem is.
              Otherwise, we're all just guessing.

              --
              Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
              http://www.communityMX.com/
              CommunityMX - Free Resources:
              http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
              ---
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              Adobe Community Expert
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              ---
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              • 4. Re: HREFs not written
                MonteKrause Level 1
                ... the Fireworks PNG file is here: download the file ---- the preview writes tables into the HTML along with the proper HREF (#). The hotspot is actually "hot". I want to export CSS, Fireworks slices as the source, and have it write Dreamweaver XHTML with ".html" as the prefered extension.

                When I export the file as described above, no HREF is written, at all - just the the CSS and proper layout. Maybe there is an extension missing, or something that writes the CSS? Is that possible?
                • 5. Re: HREFs not written
                  JoeDaSilva Level 4
                  There's a lot of things setup poorly with this, but I assume you're trying to build something other than a production website right? At least in HTML you cant have a single hotspot span across multiple images. Hotspots have been deprecated from XHTML anyway, so why bother trying this in xhtml/css in the first place?

                  If you're trying to have the entire image link to the same URL via the hotspot, why do you have it broken into so many pieces?

                  Nice painting by the way, I did a double-take when I finally saw the eyes ;-)

                  • 6. HREFs not written
                    MonteKrause Level 1
                    ... Joey, I don't know what ya mean by a "production" website. I'm building a brocure style website for an artist. The file is just a simple splash page.

                    I know not to span hotspots across multiple slices, and all that. I've attached URLs to individual slices, no slices - you name it, I've tried it. That is not the issue. The issue is, why is Fireworks not writing any HREF code, at all - none - zero - nada! It will write it just fine for a preview in the browser (using tables), but exporting the file results in absolutely no HREF in the HTML.

                    What am I overlooking? And, since when were image-maps deprecated from use? I slice images to load larger images more quickly. What other reason is there?
                    • 7. Re: HREFs not written
                      JoeDaSilva Level 4
                      Due to the intricate nature of that painting, you're going to have to live with a higher file size (I got it down to 75k by turning off sharpen color edges and turning down the compression to 80). Cutting it up into 20 or more chunks like that just adds a bunch of markup. Hell, how many dial-up users buy art anyway?

                      As to why it doesn't add the HREFs: I'll be the first to admit I'm not 100% sure, mostly due to the fact I use Fireworks to make graphics exclusively. Though I have heard of other people having issues with Fireworks stripping URLS from exported slices.

                      Jim & Linda can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that the HTML/CSS output in Fireworks was for prototyping web mockups, not for creating production HTML.

                      If I was trying to make that splash page of yours work I would just take that solid image, all 80-100K of it, export it out as a single JPEG, insert it into the page in Dreamweaver, and set a simple HREF to the page I wanted to link to. I'm not sure why you're using hotspots at all? If you want to have only the name/logo at the top link, just draw the hotspot on via Dreamweaver.

                      The concept of intro pages is widely considered outdated, and unfriendly to the user these days anyway. The best solution would be to take the user right to the content they're looking for anyway ;-)
                      • 8. Re: HREFs not written
                        Level 7
                        JoeyD1978 wrote:
                        > Due to the intricate nature of that painting, you're going to have to live with
                        > a higher file size (I got it down to 75k by turning off sharpen color edges and
                        > turning down the compression to 80). Cutting it up into 20 or more chunks like
                        > that just adds a bunch of markup. Hell, how many dial-up users buy art anyway?
                        >
                        > As to why it doesn't add the HREFs: I'll be the first to admit I'm not 100%
                        > sure, mostly due to the fact I use Fireworks to make graphics exclusively.
                        > Though I have heard of other people having issues with Fireworks stripping URLS
                        > from exported slices.
                        >
                        > Jim & Linda can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the
                        > assumption that the HTML/CSS output in Fireworks was for prototyping web
                        > mockups, not for creating production HTML.
                        >
                        > If I was trying to make that splash page of yours work I would just take that
                        > solid image, all 80-100K of it, export it out as a single JPEG, insert it into
                        > the page in Dreamweaver, and set a simple HREF to the page I wanted to link to.
                        > I'm not sure why you're using hotspots at all? If you want to have only the
                        > name/logo at the top link, just draw the hotspot on via Dreamweaver.
                        >
                        > The concept of intro pages is widely considered outdated, and unfriendly to
                        > the user these days anyway. The best solution would be to take the user right
                        > to the content they're looking for anyway ;-)
                        >
                        >

                        I haven't had a chance to look at the file yet but, yes, at the moment I
                        only use FW html for click through mock ups because it's fast. When the
                        design and flow get approved, I do my graphic work in FW and my xhtml in
                        DW.

                        The rest of what Joey says makes complete sense too, but if I have
                        anything to add after I review the file, I will chime in.

                        --
                        Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                        http://www.communityMX.com/
                        CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                        http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                        ---
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                        Adobe Community Expert
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                        ---
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                        • 9. Re: HREFs not written
                          MonteKrause Level 1
                          ... Joey, you are right on all fronts. I tried to talk my client out of a splash page. She wants one and I've gone head-to-head on so many fronts now, I gave in.

                          What you are saying is, Fireworks is full of bugs. It can't write proper HTML - even though it has tools to do so, and is advertised and sold as having those capabilities.

                          Right?
                          • 10. Re: HREFs not written
                            Level 7
                            Montemedia wrote:
                            > ... Joey, I don't know what ya mean by a "production" website. I'm building a
                            > brocure style website for an artist. The file is just a simple splash page.
                            >
                            > I know not to span hotspots across multiple slices, and all that. I've
                            > attached URLs to individual slices, no slices - you name it, I've tried it.
                            > That is not the issue. The issue is, why is Fireworks not writing any HREF
                            > code, at all - none - zero - nada! It will write it just fine for a preview in
                            > the browser, but exporting the file results in absolutely no HREF in the HTML.
                            >
                            > What am I overlooking?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            OK I just opened the file and there is NO url in the link box for the
                            hotspot.

                            As far as I can tell, there is no reason to slice up this image in the
                            manner shown. You're creating overly complex css.

                            Even with a url,the Image map is not working because your images are
                            being linked as background images within each div (at least that was
                            what happened when I did the export). Image maps cannot be applied to
                            background images, so it's being ignored in the export. If I export as
                            html and images (assuming a url is added to the hotspot) it works as
                            expected (although I would resize the hotspot to one slice as the
                            resulting image map is HUGE).

                            If you really want to slice this file up in this manner, delete the
                            hotspot and attach the link to the slice(s). It will *work* then because
                            the images will be inserted inline in the divs, rather than as
                            background images, but I don't recommend it.

                            I'd just make a single jpeg file and experiment with compression, as
                            Joey did, and use the graphic as the single link you need.

                            HTH


                            Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                            http://www.communityMX.com/
                            CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                            http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                            ---
                            .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                            Adobe Community Expert
                            http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                            ---
                            See my work on Flickr
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
                            • 11. Re: HREFs not written
                              Level 7
                              Montemedia wrote:
                              > What you are saying is, Fireworks is full of bugs.

                              No. What they are saying is that you are misusing it to create
                              production code. Fireworks is a graphics application, not a Web
                              authoring application. FW is fine for creating HTML prototypes but most
                              pros using it do not rely on the code it exports for use in a final site
                              and for good reason (whatever Adobe's hype may be).

                              This is NOT an inherent flaw in Fireworks but just the fact that *any*
                              purely graphic/image editing application (FW, Photoshop, Illustrator) is
                              completely the wrong tool to create a final site's code because the
                              process of visually designing a Web site UI and the process of
                              developing lean, efficient and semantic HTML code that truly reflects
                              the logical structure of the content are very different kinds of
                              processes. The latter is better done in a dedicated Web authoring tool
                              like Dreamweaver where you have complete control over what will be a
                              header, a paragraph, a list or whatever.

                              > It can't write proper HTML
                              > - even though it has tools to do so, and is advertised and sold as having those
                              > capabilities.
                              >
                              > Right?

                              Wrong. Fireworks is marketed as a "rapid prototyping" application. Here
                              what appears on the main Fireworks product page:

                              "Rapidly prototype and design for the web
                              Accelerate web design and development with Adobe® Fireworks® CS3
                              software, the ideal tool for creating and optimizing images for the web
                              and rapidly prototyping websites."

                              http://www.adobe.com/products/fireworks/

                              No where does it say it will create a complete and final site for you.
                              WYSIWYG is an illusion on the Web and anyone promising it for a graphic
                              or 100% visual app is lying (Adobe makes no such promises that I can
                              see... Macromedia certainly didn't).

                              The Web is a very different medium than print and the design process (or
                              at least the part when your create final end user files) is also
                              different. As stated on the product page above, Fireworks' core purpose
                              is to create and optimize Web GRAPHICS and PROTOTYPING Web sites. When
                              you export an EPS file or PDF from InDesign or Illustrator for printing,
                              you don't need to worry about the underlying code in the file. If you
                              did your job right in ID or AI, the file will print fine. The Web is a
                              completely different kind of medium and requires that you do understand
                              and care about the underlying code because it can make or break your
                              site in search engines, make your site inaccessible to some users and
                              things like that. Anyone thinking they can create an effective Web site
                              100% visually without ever touching HTML or CSS code is seriously
                              delusional... It's the nature of the medium.

                              --
                              Stéphane Bergeron
                              reach : connect : communicate
                              http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                              blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                              http://www.pixelyzed.com
                              • 12. HREFs not written
                                MonteKrause Level 1
                                :)
                                • 13. Re: HREFs not written
                                  Level 7
                                  Montemedia wrote:
                                  >>If you think you know what you are talking about, correct the file,
                                  send me a download, I?ll export the HTML and images from within my
                                  f*ck?n? Fireworks app, and see what happens.<<

                                  Upload your own exported code to a server where it can be looked at, if
                                  you wish.

                                  I'm sure someone else will be happy to help you.


                                  Montemedia wrote:
                                  > Jim wrote: "... OK I just opened the file and there is NO url in the link box
                                  > for the
                                  > hotspot."
                                  >
                                  > Monte says: "Yes there is, it's '#'." - the traditional, placeholder URL.
                                  >
                                  > Jim wrote: "As far as I can tell, there is no reason to slice up this image in
                                  > the manner shown. You're creating overly complex css."
                                  >
                                  > Monte says: "The server really doesn't care how complex the code is as long as
                                  > it is correct. And slicing images is a method of optimizing the download of a
                                  > high quality JPEG image. And if it isn't, why are there slicing tools, at all?
                                  > And really, that isn't the point of this discussion. I'm asking for a reason
                                  > why Fireworks is not writing any link information in the code.
                                  >
                                  > I've attached URLs to slices - I'VE TRIED EVERYTHING I AM ASKING THE ADOBE
                                  > PROS, WHY ISN'T FIREWORKS WRITING ANY XHTML FOR LINKS? IT IS SUPPOSED
                                  > TO! IT KNOWS WHAT TO WRITE FOR THE FREAK'N' BROWSER PREVIEW. AM I MISSING
                                  > SOMETHING? That?s what I want to know. I don't want Web design lessons.
                                  > Maybe some other time I?ll let you make fun of my Web pages.
                                  >
                                  > And Now, One of My Special Comments ? Because Adobe Has It
                                  > Coming:

                                  >
                                  > I NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ANYTHING LIKE THIS UNTIL ADOBE DECIDES THAT I
                                  > SHOULD START USING FIREWORKS, INSTEAD OF IMAGE READY - AND DREAMWEAVER INSTEAD
                                  > OF GO LIVE. THE INTERFACES ARE NOT THE SAME AS OTHER ADOBE APPLICATIONS. THEY
                                  > ARE LIKE ? DO NOT BEHAVE, OR TREAT TEXT, OR DO ... THEY S*CK. AS LONG AS I'VE
                                  > BEEN DESIGNING COMPUTER MULTIMEDIA (professionally since 1998), IF I EVER
                                  > WANTED TO USE MACROMEDIA APPLICATIONS, I WOULD HAVE PURCHASED THEM WHEN THEY
                                  > WERE PUBLISHED BY MACROMEDIA. I EVEN CHOSE TO USE LIVE MOTION AFTER LEARNING
                                  > FLASH ? THAT IS HOW MUCH AN ADOBE FAN I AM ? I TRUSTED THE COMPANY. THEY HAVE
                                  > ALWAYS KNOWN HOW TO DESIGN AN APPLICATION FOR THOSE OF US COMING FROM OTHER
                                  > DISCIPLINES ? LIKE TRADITIONAL FINE ART & GRAPHICS, THE MUSIC BUSINESS, ETC. ?
                                  >
                                  > ADOBE SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THEIR LOYAL CUSTOMERS A CHOICE, IN PURCHASING THE CS3
                                  > WEB PREMIUM SUITE, GO LIVE or DREAMWEAVER - IMAGE READY or FIREWORKS.
                                  >
                                  > What Adobe has effectively done to me, professionally speaking, has made it
                                  > harder for me to get my work done. My clients are waiting. I'm scratching my
                                  > head as to what's going on. It frustrates me so that I am really angry at
                                  > Adobe for screwing me around.
                                  >
                                  > I was familiar, and fast, and competent using a combination of Photoshop,
                                  > Image Ready, and Go Live to create beautiful, elaborate, complicated,
                                  > brochure-style websites - exclusively for photographers and artists. I trusted
                                  > that when the CS3 suites were released it would, at the very least, be the
                                  > reliable, business as usual ? but a little newer and better ? maybe some new,
                                  > usable features. But the substitution of Dreamweaver for GoLive and Fireworks
                                  > for Image Ready was wrong, on many levels.
                                  >
                                  > Adobe took advantage of my trust, my faith in them but substituting a familiar
                                  > interface, a familiar program, with clunky, unintuitive applications developed
                                  > by their former rival, Macromedia. The very same applications I've avoided -
                                  > for years. I tried those years ago ? I hated them. I tried those applications
                                  > and made the decision to stick with Adobe applications because I'm already
                                  > familiar with the look and feel - and appreciate the solid integration between
                                  > applications. Much of that is out-the-window, now - for me, that is.
                                  >
                                  > So, now I am left with suspicion and doubt of Adobe. I wonder which
                                  > application is Adobe going to keep - Go Live or Dreamweaver? I can?t tell, I
                                  > read between the lines and it is still vague. I used to use Go Live, but Adobe
                                  > tricked me into using Dreamweaver - because that is what was included in the
                                  > CS3 Web Premium Suite. I, typically trusting of Adobe, assumed Go Live went
                                  > belly-up. But no, Adobe tricked me. They waited until I was deeply invested
                                  > in CS3 before they announced the release of Go Live 9 ? but they didn?t call it
                                  > Go Live CS3 ? why? What the f*ck is going on?
                                  >
                                  > Why was Image Ready scratched? I loved it and used it - a lot! Fireworks -
                                  > IS SO UNINTUITIVE and clunky and sticky and I HATE THE WAY IT WORKS WITH TEXT
                                  > and it hangs, and all kinds of sticky, clunky, what-just-happened kind of
                                  > performance. I am so frustrated, I could cry.
                                  >
                                  > So, back to business, NOT ONE PERSON CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION AS TO WHY THERE
                                  > IS NO HREFs IN THE EXPORT HTML.
                                  >
                                  > Jim, I know you to be an expert. But as I read your response, I have no idea
                                  > where you are coming from. URLs being linked as/to background images, I have
                                  > no idea how that can happen - where the switch is, the setting, the menu, the
                                  > preference, the trigger to pull that will just blow my head off.
                                  >
                                  > And really, the size of an image map doesn't matter. A server doesn't
                                  > give a flying-flip - it's just coordinates. To click an image linking the user
                                  > to a new page is very commonplace. And it doesn't matter how big the image is.
                                  >
                                  > So aside from how lousy everyone thinks I am as a Web designer (and I really
                                  > don't care). What is wrong when a preview is right and the exported file is
                                  > wrong? The file I made was for illustration purposes. If you think you know
                                  > what you are talking about, correct the file, send me a download, I?ll export
                                  > the HTML and images from within my f*ck?n? Fireworks app, and see what happens.
                                  >


                                  --
                                  Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                  http://www.communityMX.com/
                                  CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                                  http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                                  ---
                                  .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                                  Adobe Community Expert
                                  http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                                  ---
                                  See my work on Flickr
                                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
                                  • 14. Re: HREFs not written
                                    MonteKrause Level 1
                                    Jim said: Upload your own exported code to a server where it can be looked at, if you wish ... I'm sure someone else will be happy to help you.

                                    Monte says: That's not helpful, at all.
                                    • 15. Re: HREFs not written
                                      Level 7
                                      Montemedia wrote:
                                      > Jim said: Upload your own exported code to a server where it can be looked at, if you wish ... I'm sure someone else will be happy to help you.
                                      >
                                      > Monte says: That's not helpful, at all.
                                      >

                                      No one else who is posting seems to be having your problem. Hence the
                                      suggestion for you to upload YOUR code.

                                      And apparently I don't know what I'm doing so it's rather pointless for
                                      me to continue trying to help. As I said, I am sure some one else will
                                      be happy to give you a hand.

                                      I wish you well.

                                      --
                                      Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                      http://www.communityMX.com/
                                      CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                                      http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                                      ---
                                      .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                                      Adobe Community Expert
                                      http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                                      ---
                                      See my work on Flickr
                                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
                                      • 16. Re: HREFs not written
                                        MonteKrause Level 1
                                        I uploaded the file. I asked for someone to export the HTML from their computer and see if the links were stripped.
                                        • 17. Re: HREFs not written
                                          JoeDaSilva Level 4
                                          Ok Monte,

                                          I set up a brand new file, and then added some slices. To one of the slices I added a link to http://google.com. I Then exported it as HTML & Images, and then looked over the code it produced and found that my link to Google was indeed still there.

                                          I then changed the export option to CSS Layers, and checked the code again. The HREF to google was completely gone. Is it a bug, or some kind of oversight on Adobe's part? I have no idea quite frankly, but who cares either way? The code that it does produces doesn't even include a doctype in the header, but does include interesting little tidbits like "<!-- saved from url=(0014)about:internet -->" and "<meta name="description" content="FW MX CSS Layer">". This would lead me to believe that the code was prepared in a manner for uses other than PRODUCTION CODE.

                                          Everyone here knows you miss Imageready and find Fireworks an unacceptable replacement. I feel bad for you, as it would completely destroy how I work if I had to switch to something other than my preferred platform. However what myself and some others are trying to point out, is that you're completely missing the point how how Fireworks fits into a web design workflow.

                                          If you have any specific questions about Fireworks I promise that I'll do everything I can to help you, as will a lot of others here too. But as far as I can tell, there's no remedy to the issue you're having. I suggest you file a bug report with Adobe, or bring it to the attention of their support department.
                                          • 18. Re: HREFs not written
                                            MonteKrause Level 1
                                            Thank you Joey! Thank you very, very much.
                                            At least I'm not crazy. And when I get a minute, I will file a bug report - because it is a "bug" and I'm not going to spend another minute of my time trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

                                            If I have another question about anything, I'm coming to you. Aren't you lucky?
                                            • 19. Re: HREFs not written
                                              Level 7
                                              Montemedia wrote:
                                              > Thank you Joey! Thank you very, very much.
                                              > At least I'm not crazy. And when I get a minute, I will file a bug report -
                                              > because it is a "bug" and I'm not going to spend another minute of my time
                                              > trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.
                                              >
                                              > If I have another question about anything, I'm coming to you. Aren't you
                                              > lucky?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              Why would it be a bug for Fireworks to do what you are telling it?

                                              css = style

                                              html = structure

                                              You can write all the css you want and it will never have an href or hot
                                              spot in it. Why should Fireworks export one?

                                              SKB
                                              • 20. Re: HREFs not written
                                                MonteKrause Level 1
                                                SKB half awake said: "... Why would it be a bug for Fireworks to do what you are telling it? ... css = style ... html = structure. You can write all the css you want and it will never have an href or hot spot in it. Why should Fireworks export one? SKB

                                                Monte, knowing his circumstance clarified replies: " Excuse me?"
                                                • 21. Re: HREFs not written
                                                  Level 7
                                                  Montemedia wrote:
                                                  > SKB half awake said: "... Why would it be a bug for Fireworks to do what you
                                                  > are telling it? ... css = style ... html = structure. You can write all the
                                                  > css you want and it will never have an href or hot spot in it. Why should
                                                  > Fireworks export one? SKB
                                                  >
                                                  > Monte, knowing his circumstance clarified replies: " Excuse me?"
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  Here is a link to a css style sheet from a fairly large company.
                                                  http://welcome.hp-ww.com/country/us/en/styles/hpweb_welcome.css

                                                  This is the html page that it is attached to.
                                                  http://www.hp.com/country/us/en/welcomeBC.html
                                                  There are lots of links. View the source html code and you will see many
                                                  href's.

                                                  Search the css style sheet and you won't find one. Never will.


                                                  > I'm exporting CSS layers and Fireworks slices as the source


                                                  So if you ask Fireworks to export your file as css, you won't get any
                                                  href's.

                                                  Your export choice needs to be html and images, not css layers.

                                                  Like Jim,
                                                  I wish you well.
                                                  • 22. Re: HREFs not written
                                                    Level 7
                                                    SKB wrote:
                                                    > So if you ask Fireworks to export your file as css, you won't get any
                                                    > href's.
                                                    >
                                                    > Your export choice needs to be html and images, not css layers.

                                                    Well, I never used the feature as I stay away from any Fireworks
                                                    generated code but, it seems to me that exporting CSS layers is just
                                                    another way to export HTML but using CSS for layout and without the use
                                                    of tables. As Joey pointed out, there seems to be a bug in Fireworks'
                                                    HTML export when using the CSS Layers setting. Again, I wouldn't know, I
                                                    never use FW to export tools so that's why I didn't participate in that
                                                    part of the conversation. I agree though that Adobe should fix that
                                                    bug as the feature is in the app and it should work as advertised.

                                                    But, with that said, Monte, it seems to me that you have two choices
                                                    here, one is to keep complaining about Fireworks' failings in an area
                                                    that is not its primary purpose (exporting HTML), keep up the attitude
                                                    and alienate anyone who could help you here in the future. Or, you might
                                                    want to start listening to mine and others' advice regarding changing
                                                    your work methods. Using a graphics app to create HTML and CSS code is
                                                    really less than ideal. And I have seen the code ImageReady and GoLive
                                                    created. It was no better and in many respects a lot worse than
                                                    Fireworks'. As I said in my other post in the thread which you have
                                                    seemed to ignore so far, if you think you can create effective Web sites
                                                    100% visually in a graphics app without touching or understanding a line
                                                    of HTML or CSS code, you are simply delusional. But sadly, you certainly
                                                    are not the only one...

                                                    --
                                                    Stéphane Bergeron
                                                    reach:connect:communicate
                                                    www.webfocusdesign.com
                                                    blog:tutorials:articles:gallery
                                                    www.pixelyzed.com
                                                    • 23. Re: HREFs not written
                                                      Level 7
                                                      Stéphane Bergeron wrote:
                                                      > HTML export when using the CSS Layers setting. Again, I wouldn't know, I
                                                      > never use FW to export tools

                                                      That of course should have said "I never use FW to export *code*"
                                                      • 24. Re: HREFs not written
                                                        Level 7
                                                        Stéphane Bergeron wrote:

                                                        > Well, I never used the feature as I stay away from any Fireworks
                                                        > generated code but, it seems to me that exporting CSS layers is just
                                                        > another way to export HTML but using CSS for layout and without the use
                                                        > of tables.



                                                        From Fireworks Help;

                                                        > Exporting CSS layers;
                                                        > Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) give you added control over how web pages are displayed.
                                                        > CSS layers let you create style sheets or templates that define how different elements,
                                                        > such as headers and links, should appear. With CSS, you can control the style and layout
                                                        > of multiple web pages at once.



                                                        As with any template, you can open the exported css layers html in
                                                        Dreamweaver, remove the sliced images Fireworks put in the layers to
                                                        make it look like your png, add your content and you have a table-less
                                                        layout. You still need to add the interactive html elements like you
                                                        would with any template. You still need to modify the css to use the
                                                        Fireworks images as backgrounds for those divs to complete the look you
                                                        want.

                                                        Now in monte's case. He wasn't trying to create a template to control
                                                        multiple web pages. He was trying to control one page. Generating over
                                                        300 lines of css and 40 divs to get a table-less layout for one page. Oh
                                                        wait, I forgot about the 100 lines of code for the hot spot if added in
                                                        like he wants. Kind of defeats the purpose, wouldn't you think?
                                                        Exporting as html and images only generates about 300 lines. Sounds like
                                                        the way to go. I wish him well either way he does it.


                                                        I don't use Fireworks generated code either. But, if I asked it to
                                                        export css, I wouldn't expect to see interactive html markup. Which is
                                                        what a kink is.

                                                        I need to go shovel some snow.

                                                        SKB


                                                        • 25. Re: HREFs not written
                                                          MonteKrause Level 1
                                                          Joey is king. He told me what I needed to know. Fireworks has a little bug. I reported that to Adobe.

                                                          The building is on fire, and I want you all to leave the building. And Stéphane Bergeronto, before you go, I want you to understand that I am not delusional. I learned HTML syntax from the ground up using just Notepad and a browser and guidance from one of the trickest code-monkeys around, Jim Link. It's because I know my sh*t, that if I wanted to, I can build a very effective Website - 100% visually - using a graphics app - that generates code like it is supposed to - Notepad, and a browser.

                                                          Y'all have a really good week!

                                                          • 26. Re: HREFs not written
                                                            Level 7
                                                            SKB wrote:
                                                            > Now in monte's case. He wasn't trying to create a template to control
                                                            > multiple web pages. He was trying to control one page. Generating over
                                                            > 300 lines of css and 40 divs to get a table-less layout for one page. Oh
                                                            > wait, I forgot about the 100 lines of code for the hot spot if added in
                                                            > like he wants. Kind of defeats the purpose, wouldn't you think?

                                                            Definitely... and exactly why I don't use code exported by Fireworks or
                                                            any other graphics editor. It's not their strenght and not their job. As
                                                            I said before, creating the HTML structure of a page requires a
                                                            different mindset than creating visually although, for me, both are
                                                            tied. When I create the visuals of a Web page I do think in terms of
                                                            sections and I always work on the site's information architecture before
                                                            I even work on the visuals. How a site is organized and what kind of
                                                            navigation is needed is directly linked to how content or information is
                                                            organized in a site so, that comes first.

                                                            > Exporting as html and images only generates about 300 lines. Sounds like
                                                            > the way to go.

                                                            Not really. Fireworks' regular tables based export is too fragile to be
                                                            usable as well. Add a bit too much text and the layout breaks badly. A
                                                            better strategy IMO is to slice and export the minimal amount of
                                                            graphics required to recreate the visual FW layout (at least anything
                                                            that cannot be recreated with CSS) and build the page structure in
                                                            Dreamweaver or a code editor or any app more suitable for this task than
                                                            a graphics editor. You'll end up with a much leaner code base that is
                                                            much more semantic thus better suited to good search engines ranking and
                                                            more accessible. It may take a little more time up front... but it
                                                            yields far more flexible results that are much easier to maintain and
                                                            change.

                                                            > I don't use Fireworks generated code either. But, if I asked it to
                                                            > export css, I wouldn't expect to see interactive html markup.

                                                            Why not? I don't understand your reasoning here. CSS doesn't do anything
                                                            on its own, it is tied to HTML markup. So if FW exports complete pages
                                                            in two distinct ways (table based layouts and CSS based layouts) why
                                                            would links work in one and not the other? The fact that it doesn't is
                                                            clearly a bug or an oversight. Regardless of the quality or suitability
                                                            of the generated code. I see no reason why links shouldn't work for both
                                                            kinds of exports.

                                                            > I need to go shovel some snow.

                                                            Yeah... had to do that too... ;-)

                                                            --
                                                            Stéphane Bergeron
                                                            reach : connect : communicate
                                                            http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                                                            blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                                                            http://www.pixelyzed.com
                                                            • 27. Re: HREFs not written
                                                              Level 7
                                                              Montemedia wrote:
                                                              > Joey is king. He told me what I needed to know. Fireworks has a
                                                              > little bug. I reported that to Adobe.

                                                              Good.

                                                              > The building is on fire, and I want you all to leave the building.

                                                              Huh?

                                                              > I want you to understand that I am not delusional. I learned HTML
                                                              > syntax from the ground up using just Notepad and a browser and
                                                              > guidance from one of the trickest code-monkeys around, Jim Link.

                                                              Good for you and I stand corrected then. So why do you expect A graphics
                                                              app to do your work for you then? And especially to do it well? ;-)

                                                              > It's because I know my sh*t, that if I wanted to, I can build
                                                              > a very effective Website - 100% visually - using a graphics app -
                                                              > that generates code like it is supposed to

                                                              That's the delusional part right here ;-) I know of no graphics app that
                                                              can do this. None. Fireworks can't (yet). ImageReady certainly couldn't
                                                              and I know of no other graphic app that exports Web pages that even
                                                              approaches these two even if neither is anything to write home about in
                                                              terms of exported code quality. Fireworks can create good clickable
                                                              prototypes (given you don't use CSS layer apparently) and even better
                                                              now with multiple pages but that's all I would use its code for
                                                              personally...

                                                              --
                                                              Stéphane Bergeron
                                                              reach : connect : communicate
                                                              http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                                                              blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                                                              http://www.pixelyzed.com
                                                              • 28. Re: HREFs not written
                                                                Level 7
                                                                Stéphane Bergeron wrote:

                                                                >> I don't use Fireworks generated code either. But, if I asked it to
                                                                >> export css, I wouldn't expect to see interactive html markup.
                                                                >
                                                                > Why not? I don't understand your reasoning here. CSS doesn't do anything
                                                                > on its own, it is tied to HTML markup. So if FW exports complete pages
                                                                > in two distinct ways (table based layouts and CSS based layouts) why
                                                                > would links work in one and not the other? The fact that it doesn't is
                                                                > clearly a bug or an oversight. Regardless of the quality or suitability
                                                                > of the generated code. I see no reason why links shouldn't work for both
                                                                > kinds of exports.

                                                                It just makes sense to me that if I ask for css layers I would only get
                                                                the the start of a css style sheet with the divs positions and size
                                                                already done. And since this was all Fireworks was giving up, it didn't
                                                                seem like a bug to me.

                                                                After some experimenting and reasonable conversations, it appears that
                                                                it can be accomplished. There is an upgrade to the Smart Css extension
                                                                that comes default with Fireworks. It can be found here..

                                                                http://tinyurl.com/ywbqd4

                                                                After installing this update/upgrade, Fireworks does in fact export link
                                                                references in the html when exporting as css layers. I don't know if it
                                                                will handle hot spots but, a link attached to a slice works.

                                                                Even though I will probably never use this feature, I'm always willing
                                                                to learn something new. I hope everyone is too.

                                                                SKB
                                                                • 29. Re: HREFs not written
                                                                  MonteKrause Level 1
                                                                  Teasingly, Stéphane Bergeron wrote: Good for you and I stand corrected then. So why do you expect A graphics
                                                                  app to do your work for you then? And especially to do it well? ;-)


                                                                  Monte responds: You can disagree with me - it's okay - but, I'll bet the same the same engine that generates code for Dreamweaver powers Fireworks. As I'm sure there was a similar relationship between GoLive and ImageReady (sigh).

                                                                  Like I've mentioned previously, no matter how the code gets to one of my pages, I always check the syntax for errors by using the code-checker-thingy in either Dreamweaver or GoLive. When all issues have been resolved - if there were any - the page goes live.

                                                                  "Live" that's the exciting part. And that's how I roll. :) ~ Monte



                                                                  • 30. Re: HREFs not written
                                                                    Trevor McCauley
                                                                    Hi Everyone,

                                                                    FYI, the default CSS export is a simplified export whose only purpose is to provide absolutely positioned images in an HTML page based on CSS. It does not support slices or hotspots, nor does it support any of the behaviors that go with them. For that, you would want to use the more matured table-based export.

                                                                    If you are looking to get more out of a CSS export, please take a look at John Wylie's SmartCSS export which is used as a default CSS export replacement:
                                                                    Export CSS painlessly from website comps in Fireworks

                                                                    Bear in mind that we are aware of the limitations of the current default CSS export and are constantly considering options for improving it in the future.

                                                                    ---

                                                                    Additionally, keep in mind that all export scripts are externalized and can be edited - or new scripts can be created from scratch with a little JavaScript. This means you also have the opportunity to change the current CSS export to be more adequate to your liking (not unlike what John Wylie accomplished). For more information on these kinds of scripts and how they can be edited or created, see:
                                                                    Modifying HTML Output with HTML Styles in Fireworks

                                                                    In pursuing that further, you will want to be sure to have available a reference to the APIs used by Fireworks JavaScript can be found in the Extending Fireworks documentation here:
                                                                    http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/fireworks/
                                                                    • 31. Re: HREFs not written
                                                                      MonteKrause Level 1
                                                                      Fireworks is half-assed. Adobe had the right idea with Image Ready. they should have continued with it.

                                                                      I can't say that enough.
                                                                      • 32. Re: HREFs not written
                                                                        JoeDaSilva Level 4
                                                                        Monte, why don't you just continue to use Imageready then? I don't see how you're proving much of a point by repeatedly critiquing software you've admitted (and proven) that you don't understand how to use?
                                                                        • 33. Re: HREFs not written
                                                                          Level 7
                                                                          JoeyD1978 wrote:
                                                                          > Monte, why don't you just continue to use Imageready then? I don't see how
                                                                          > you're proving much of a point by repeatedly critiquing software you've
                                                                          > admitted (and proven) that you don't understand how to use?
                                                                          >

                                                                          Agreed.

                                                                          --
                                                                          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                                                          http://www.communityMX.com/
                                                                          CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                                                                          http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                                                                          ---
                                                                          .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                                                                          Adobe Community Expert
                                                                          http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                                                                          ---
                                                                          See my work on Flickr
                                                                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
                                                                          • 34. Re: HREFs not written
                                                                            MonteKrause Level 1
                                                                            Photoshop CS3 does not include ImageReady. You people can insult me all you want about not knowing how to use the software.

                                                                            What it proves is why I never used Fireworks in the first place. And except for Flash, why I stayed away from Macromedia software all together.

                                                                            You can protect Adobe all you want.