9 Replies Latest reply on Nov 5, 2012 12:52 PM by JFPhoton

    Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?

    53northtv

      I have just had a custom built system delivered

       

       

      ASUS P9X79 Intel X79 Socket 2011

      Crucial m4 128GB 2.5" SATA-III

      3 x 3TB Seagate ST3000DM001

      BX80619I73930K 3930K C2 RETAIL Overclocked to 4.4GHz

      GeForce GTX 680 2048MB

      CML16GX3M2A1600C10 32GB (4x8GB) 1600MHz

       

       

      I have installed Production Premium and there is nothing else on the system. I created a pagefile on 1 of the 3TB drives (50GB I think) and use this same drive as the scratch disk. I have my project and video files on the other 3TB drive.

       

      My project consists of 6 cameras that shot 90 minutes each of XDCAM 422 footage - each video clip is about 40GB, all sucessfully sync in the timeline.

      I had hoped to be able to multi camera the 6 cameras and cut the project in one hit. However, within a couple of seconds of playing the nested sync clips in the multicamera monitor, the pictures freeze (but the sound carries on)

      Should this system be able to cope?

       

      If not, would RAID 0 help significantly ( a complete reinstall of the OS required here so not the preferred option)

      My workaround is to create proxies and then link back to the files at the end, but not the most satisfactory.

       

       

       

       

       

        • 1. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          With 6 streams of 422 XDCAM material, you have in a multi-cam situatation a data stream of at least 6 x 50 = 300 MB/s, disregarding all overhead and OS activities, so in practice you may need as much as 500 MB/s sustained transfer rate. That is way beyond what any single disk can deliver, so, yes, you need a raid array, and a pretty beefy one at that.

           

          With what you describe, a dedicated raid controller seems like a good solution, but not free. A mobo based raid0 does not appeal to me, but I'm spoiled. The risk of losing the original footage, the CPU overhead of a software array, the marginal benefits all do not seem worth the effort IMO.

          • 2. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
            53northtv Level 1

            Harm Millaard wrote:

             

            With 6 streams of 422 XDCAM material, you have in a multi-cam situatation a data stream of at least 6 x 50 = 300 MB/s, disregarding all overhead and OS activities, so in practice you may need as much as 500 MB/s sustained transfer rate. That is way beyond what any single disk can deliver, so, yes, you need a raid array, and a pretty beefy one at that.

             

            With what you describe, a dedicated raid controller seems like a good solution, but not free. A mobo based raid0 does not appeal to me, but I'm spoiled. The risk of losing the original footage, the CPU overhead of a software array, the marginal benefits all do not seem worth the effort IMO.

            I half suspected that was the case. Would a mobo raid 0 suffice or is hardware the only way to go? I have 2 spare Samsung ST3000DM001 1TB hard drives - would they be sufficient to obtain the throughput in whatever flavour of RAID I end up with?  What would you suggest as a half decent (i.e not too expensive) seperate controller - or pointers to look out for?

             

            In essence I have

             

            C: OS & Apps ( I still see a pagefile here when I look at system)

            D:3TB drive for project and source material

            E:3TB drive for scratch disks/previews/pagefile  (this is what I would swap for RAID ????)

             

            Thanks for advice so far. I have read so much in the lead up to getting the machine built I've lost sight of what I actually learned in the first place!

            • 3. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              I guess the ultimate question is, how often de you expect to edit a 6 cam multi-cam setting? If it is only very occasionally, accept the slow editing. If it is regular and may even increase in the future, bite the bullet and get a good dedicated raid controller plus the required disks. That is going to add up!

               

              I very recently built a new system and found that around 50% of the total investment went into disks and raid controller. See http://ppbm7.com/index.php/intro-part-1 and especially the pages with the final results and price tag.

               

              BTW, the disks you mentioned are probably Seagates and not Samsung.

              • 4. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
                53northtv Level 1

                Harm Millaard wrote:

                 

                I guess the ultimate question is, how often de you expect to edit a 6 cam multi-cam setting? If it is only very occasionally, accept the slow editing.

                 

                 

                 

                Most of my work is single camera so I guess the slower editing is the way forward. By slow editing are you referring to the proxy editing or to use Mobo Raid0. Out of interest I have read a lot of people saying that windows 7 Raid0 is good enough... thoughts?

                 

                 

                BTW, the disks you mentioned are probably Seagates and not Samsung.

                 

                My mistake sorry... I had just been discussing some Samsung stuff with a friend.

                • 5. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Out of interest I have read a lot of people saying that windows 7 Raid0 is good enough... thoughts?

                   

                  That is a blanket statement that leads to confusion. It does not mention the number of disks in that raid0 array, is that 2, 4 or even more. It does not mention what the source material is, HDV, AVCHD, 422 MXF or RED 4K or even EPIC 5K. It also forgets to mention the number of tracks in use or the number of angles in a multi-cam shoot. In short, this is a BS statement.

                   

                  You have to look at the source material (and your material requires about twice the disk I/O that HDV or AVCHD require), the kind of editing you do (documentaries with long shots, or music clips with a lot of color correction and high rate of shot changes, or wedding movies, etc.) and the risk you can take of losing your source material. All these factors influence what is best for you. A simple statement raid0 will work is utter nonsense without knowing the context.

                   

                  For some background on raids, read http://forums.adobe.com/thread/525263

                  • 6. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
                    53northtv Level 1

                    I shoot mainly on my Epic without too many issues as it is generally single form - it was the 422 multicam that provoked my question as I wanted to make sure that the expense I have gone to to upgrade my machine was not being wasted.

                     

                    Will have a read through the background info ( which I have seen before but as I said earlier, I became bogged down in too many opinions )

                     

                    I think I'll stick with the slower editing for now. Thanks for the advice.

                    • 7. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                      Yes raid 0 would be enough for that many streams. The 300Mbs that Harm listed is Bits and not Bytes. You have to divide by 8 for Bytes. which is 37.5MB/s . However the Disk latency on mechanical drives will cause the issue with that many files read at one time. A raid 0 will eliminate that problem.

                       

                      Eric

                      ADK

                      • 8. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
                        53northtv Level 1

                        Not wanting to be stupid -  would windows built in RAID0 do the trick? I don't really want to have to reinstall the OS to utilise the mobo bios RAID. If I have to then so be it, but I just want an easy life !

                         

                        Further to that, is it possible to clarify a couple of points that I have become confused with as I have read that much information.

                         

                        I have my OS & CS6 on the SSD - Very fast :-)

                         

                        I have 2 (D: &  E:) 3tb drives & 2 1tb drives - all non raid at the moment.. I have a small pagefile on the SSD 1024MB and on the first 3tb drive I have a pagefile set to 50000-200000MB -  the system currently shows it as about 81000MB

                         

                        I have my source files on .3tb (E:) along with my projects, outputs etc....

                         

                        I have set the scratch disks to 3tb  (D:) which is where I set the large  pagefile. The video preview are also on this drive.

                         

                        My confustion is whether I have followed the correct guidance regarding the usesage of the disks. If I were to go down the RAID route, I assume that I'd use the 2 x 1tb for that. The other confusion is that I also read that the video previews should be on the same disk as the source, i.e. my drive E: - at the moment they are on the scratch disk.

                         

                        I have also read that I should disable all virus software as this checks every files before writing to disk - is this good advice?

                        • 9. Re: Should my system be able to deal with 6 HD streams?
                          JFPhoton Level 3

                          ......throughput is the answer.......even the new SATA III HDDs only do 140-150MB/sec. as a single drive. Eric and Scott usually recommend 2 RAID 0 setups. So, OS , programs on SSD.  STATIC Windows pagefile on 1st RAID 0 along with previews,media cache and cache files. Second RAID 0 has source footage and project files. Then, additional large drive for backup of all media and project files. You need the speed from the RAID 0s....but must have backup!!!