12 Replies Latest reply: Nov 7, 2012 11:05 AM by Toaosog RSS

    How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not

    Toaosog Community Member

      I have hundreds of keywords and metadata including Ratings and Labels using CS4 and Bridge CS4.

      It is time to replace my PPC Mac with a new Intel Mac.

      I am going to install CS6 on the new Intel Mac without installing CS4.

       

      By default.... this eliminates ALL keywords and ratings and labels from my Bridge browser. The keywords will still be present on the files but Not present in Bridge keywords list and all ratings and labels will be lost.

       

      Making a copy of Bridge CS4 metadata to another computer is quite simple.

      Simply copy All of the Bridge CS4 application support folder to the other computer.

       

      The question then becomes.... can I aslo do this with CS6 without introducing an incompatibility?

      1. incompatible due to CS6 application support.

      2. incompatible due to transfer from a PPC (APM) to Intel (GUID).

       

      This concern results from an Bridge CS4 export problem I experienced.

      Bridge CS4 will export all of your keywords and you can import them from a text file but it has some odd troubles. (try it and you will see)

      This does Not mean that CS6 has the same troubles.

       

      What do I require to preserve existing metedata and keywords that exist on a PPC using CS4 and import them into CS6 using Intel?

      Sound simple?

      I doubt it.

       

      The points are.

      1. CS4 not installed.

      2. CS4 source is PPC not Intel.

      3. Ratings and Labels are metadata that Are Not part of the file metadata and unique to Bridge only.

      4. Keyword Search and keyword Use requires that Bridge have keyword list, otherwise Finder is the far more useful browser and the new version of Bridge will require hours of keyword listing.

       

      I don't want to spends hours retyping keywords lists in Bridge.

        • 1. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
          Curt Y Community Member

          Should be able to open CS4 and click on keywords panel.  Upper right click on arrow and select export.  Save to thumb drive.  Then import this list to CS6.

          • 2. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
            Toaosog Community Member

            I specified this process in my message.

            The concern is the word "should".

             

            Regardless and as I specified, ALL ratings and labels are lost using 

            this process because ratings and label data is not embedded within any 

            file, it is unique to bridge application support.

             

            I posted this question PRIOR to purchasing an Intel Mac and CS6 so I 

            won't know what the limitations are until those events occur.

            Wisdom told me that I should post this question now.... so that a 

            solution may be made available before I experience any troubles and of 

            course.... to bring this topic to attention.

            • 3. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
              Curt Y Community Member

              Ratings and keywords are placed on the image.  I am on windows OS and can read them with Windows Explorer.  In Mac open Finder and see if you can read them.  May not be directly on thumbnail but should be in File Info or some such heading.

               

              If you want the list is is probably somewhere in one of the heading of Users/[user name]/Library/Preferences/Adobe/Plugins/[effect or filter name]/Photoshop

              • 4. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                Toaosog Community Member

                I apologize.

                Please read my original message and you will see that I also specified 

                this embedded metadata very clearly as well.

                Please take no offense.

                I appreciate any and all help, but this topic is NOT COMMON and cannot 

                be addressed through common solutions.

                Ratings are NOT placed into the file under CS4 Bridge and neither are 

                Labels.

                I proved this empirically via test.

                 

                I operate 8 computers with two primaries. (all Macs)

                SLOA allows CS4 to be installed on two computers.

                The test was very simplistic.

                Browse my picture collection with a Bridge installation that did not 

                produce the ratings and labels.

                RESULT:

                No ratings or labels were present despite any keyword imports.

                ALL keywords embedded were of course present even if the keyword list 

                was not present because this data is embedded in the file.

                 

                I specified ALL of this in my original message.

                 

                The situation REQUIRES more than one computer.... OR.... purchase of a 

                new computer.

                This is why I specified the "points".

                 

                Thank you for your responses, you obviously mean well and I do not 

                mean to offend, but please read the message.

                • 5. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                  Omke Oudeman Community Member

                  Ratings are NOT placed into the file under CS4 Bridge and neither are

                   

                  Labels.

                   

                  That depends on your file type and settings voor Camera Raw.

                   

                  Like Curt stated usually metadata is written in to the file itself. Only Raw files can't be written to and by default they create a XMP file, also called Sidecar XMP files (and do have the same filename, only a different extension called .xmp). These files are also by default hidden in Bridge but If you use Bridge to move files they travel along with the original.

                   

                  If you move or copy them using finder you have to be sure these XMP files are also copied with the originals to the new location.

                   

                  Using the menu View / show hidden files should reveal the XMP files.

                   

                  An other option for the Camera Raw prefs is to set metadata to the Camera Raw database instead of written to sidecar XMP files ( to my knowledge using sidecar files has been the default since about CS3).

                   

                  Now here it becomes a bit tricky and I only can tell you my findings, not to be confused with true facts. (and mind you, it is at least 5 years ago I was on a PPC and not even remember which OSX 10 was able to work on it, I just present the acting of CS6 on an intel Mac Pro with OSX 10.7, but I don't believe the difference in location is that much)

                   

                  Having written the Metadata to the Camera Raw Database your image settings get written to a file in the user library preferences folder called logically "Adobe Camera Raw Database". But also some info gets added to the Camera Raw Cache folder (User library / Caches/ Adobe Camera Raw) in a file called index.dat.

                   

                  Also not having set metadata to xmp sidecars stores the ACR settings in a new .dat file with a unique number (not to be traced as a corresponding filename. And also the default maximum is set to 1 GB of space and when full the oldest files are overwritten with the new ones.

                   

                  Personally I use converted DNG files that are capable of writing metadata to so all info and settings are in the file itself and I don't need to bother about central storage that can get lost. The downside is that changes to a DNG need to save the whole file instead of a small xmp file and probably reading cache takes more time then getting info from central storage but I like to be on the safe side and speed is not really needed to be nailed down to split seconds in my workflow.

                   

                  Keywords are stored as a file in the Bridge preferences but Like Curt already stated exporting the old list first and then via the same route import again to CS6 should solve your problem and they will be back as persistent, otherwise the files in the content window show as italic and sadly enough have to be made persistent one by one with right click mouse menu, so that is not really an option for you.

                   

                  Exporting the list does create a text file that can also be altered manually with a simple text app and as said, again be imported in newer versions as Curt described earlier.

                   

                   

                  Making a copy of Bridge CS4 metadata to another computer is quite simple.

                   

                  Simply copy All of the Bridge CS4 application support folder to the other computer.

                   

                   

                   

                  Well, in fact it is true to call copying this folders a simple task but replacing the existing new CS6 would not be my method. The biggest change for Bridge CS6 was the transition to 64 bit and I lack the knowledge for this but also cache format for thumbs and previews has been different for every version.

                   

                  But if you have located the CS4 folder for Bridge in your PPC user library / application support / Adobe / Bridge CS4 you should find a file called 'Adobe Bridge Keywords.xml' and it is fairly safe to replace this CS4 version with the new CS6 version.

                   

                  Also custom settings for the output module can be copied (however to my memory the option for custom settings in Output where introduced in CS5) and collections can be copied.

                   

                  So for your keywords the copy option might work, rating and labeling for Raw files they will be read in CS6 if they are stored as XMP. ACR settings idem but CS6 ACR has a new (2012) conversion mode that has different settings that do not work with previous settings (unless you first choose to use the 2010 conversion as default Raw setting.

                   

                  If it is in the Central Data Base I would start trying to replace the CS4 with the CS6 edition (after back up of existing CS6 version) and see what happens. If it works your out of trouble.

                   

                  You can also open the Camera raw Database as a text file but there is a lot of data in. Maybe scripting would be able to reveal those data and transfer to XMP but you have to visit the dedicated Scripting forum for this.

                   

                  And while you state to have not installed CS4 anymore it might be wise to reinstall it (but first make a proper back up of the previous mentioned folders and files to be on the save side.

                   

                  This gives you the opportunity to export keywords properly and if needed you can use Show Items from subfolders option with filter and set preferences to XMP sidecar to refresh the rating and labels to those XMP files. Just an escape route that might not be as painstakingly as it looks at first sight, just use the options for Bridge to filter.

                  • 6. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                    Curt Y Community Member

                    Toaosog wrote:

                     

                    I appreciate any and all help, but this topic is NOT COMMON and cannot 

                    be addressed through common solutions.

                    Ratings are NOT placed into the file under CS4 Bridge and neither are 

                    Labels.

                    You have never mentioned what type of file extension you are using.  If jpeg then the keywords, labels, and ratings are written to the image.  As Omke points out if you are using RAW images this information is written to the XMP sidecar file.  I admit I know nothing about the capabilities of Finder but several browsers in Win OS will read the Bridge keywords and ratings for JPEG files so it has to be on the image file.  With XMP file they do not read them, but the info is there.   I have CS5 and CS6 on my computer, and I made changes in one and the other reads it.  Different data base for each program.  So your test must be leaving something out.

                     

                    This topic IS COMMON.  Thousands of users change computers and/or versions and have not heard of anyone complaining they have lost keywords, label or ratings.  Lables may show up as white, but that indicates the label name has been changed. 

                     

                    But I will let Omke continue this as he is the Mac expert.

                    • 7. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                      Toaosog Community Member

                      Yes thank you.

                      You actually see the problem although ALL of my files have .xmp and I 

                      don't use Camera Raw.

                      The problem is as you said, my .xml keyword Bridge file IS in 32 bit, 

                      thus making an import a wiser choice when the time comes.

                       

                      I already determined that CS4 installation might be a good idea, then 

                      allow the CS6 installer to sort things out.

                      I prefer clean installations.

                       

                      Either way, it seems there is no solution with the possible exception 

                      of CS4 upgraded via install to CS6 to preserve my Labels and Ratings.

                      Even then it may not occur.

                       

                      My original message clearly stated that my files have keywords in 

                      their xmp files, let that issue vanish please, it has no relevance.

                      It occurred to me some time ago that tens of thousands of pictures 

                      required some form of search that did not require renaming each file, 

                      thus I utilized the xmp sidecar as a quick and efficient solution. I 

                      have ZERO trouble utilizing this metadata in any way.

                       

                      This topic is purely based upon preserving years of keywording into 

                      CS6 Bridge from CS4 Bridge from PPC to Intel 64 bit.

                      That is all.

                      Yes, there have been keyword imports that show as italic and that has 

                      been a problem. (I "assume" that this is due to similar keywords in 

                      other keyword folder lists, I will obviously find out when the time 

                      comes if I must keyword One by One)

                      The good news is AS I STATED that the files themselves ARE keyworded, 

                      so searching and finding is not a problem.

                      Keywording new files IS a problem if I have to retype hundreds of 

                      keywords all over again.

                       

                      My current solution to Ratings and Labels is to make a copy of all 

                      rated and labeled files THEN keyword their ratings and labels AS 

                      keywords into the xmp file. (don't have to make a copy, but I have my 

                      personal reasons)

                      (for example.... a 1 star rating receives the keyword.... "one star" 

                      in its xmp sidecar)

                      Clever huh? Yes I have already done this as my ultimate "Plan B" if 

                      all else fails.

                      Funny how nobody has suggested this very clever solution.

                      Once CS6 is installed, I do a search in CS6 Bridge for all "one star" 

                      keyworded files then give them their 1 star rating.

                      (same works for labels)

                      With any luck, someone will read this clever fix if they are having a 

                      similar problem rather than being forced to wade through techno babble 

                      and comments that don't address the unique particulars.

                       

                      The most obvious requirement and first and foremost in a situation 

                      that requires files from PPC 32 bit APM is that I use OSX 10.6 because 

                      Rosetta is still present and can process 32 bit files.

                      OXS 10.7 and 10.8 do not have this.

                       

                      I am pleased that this discussion is illuminating the potential 

                      problems.

                      Perhaps I will discover that the process is easier than I suspected 

                      once I get my new Mac.

                      In the meantime I will attempt to anticipate potential troubles with 

                      all this help.

                      Thanks.

                       

                      SIDENOTE:

                      It is most wise to use a small separate disc (preferably SSD, 

                      120GB-240GB) as the Bridge Cache location. This simple method greatly 

                      improves performance without chewing up main hard drive space.

                      I use a dedicated Adobe Photoshop Scratch Disc and a dedicated Bridge 

                      Cache disc and the performance on my obsolete system is blink of an 

                      eye. (in fact, if it weren't for steadily increasing incompatibilities 

                      I would not replace my PPC at all)

                      • 8. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                        Toaosog Community Member

                        NO, THIS TOPIC IS NOT COMMON.

                        This is NOT a debate.

                        Your response while appreciated is totally and completely irrelevant.

                        I stated in the clearest possible terms that I have ZERO troubles with 

                        keyworded files, my questions stem totally and entirely from making 

                        CS4 Bridge unique data into CS6 Bridge specific data.

                        This has absolutely NOTHING TO TO DO WITH xmp sidecars.

                        I asked you very respectfully to READ my first message and you did not.

                        Thanks anyway.

                         

                        I have tens of thousands of photos.

                        ALL are keyworded, ALL have xmp files, ALL have metadata.

                        I use ratings and labels to make transfers of best edition photos to 

                        my printing system rather than making duplicates of ALL files.

                        Until you do this firsthand you will likely not notice that your 

                        ratings and labels have been lost in the transfer due to Bridge 

                        specific data.

                        I sincerely hope this clarifies that this is not common and there is 

                        no debate possible.

                        Thank you so much for calling me an ignorant liar.

                         

                        Please note that I did not do the same.

                        I actually appreciate these responses regardless if they are not 

                        helpful.

                        It's the effort that truly counts.

                        • 9. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                          Omke Oudeman Community Member

                          It is becoming a long thread, it was late yesterday evening-night and today I'm still busy on a large project.

                           

                          Let's try to summarize:

                           

                           

                           

                          First can you specify the filetypes you are using so we know what to talk about?

                           

                          You have files containing keywords in the IPTC (which should be because that is the normal route) metadata in the file itself. This is in the XMP format and according to the world standard and written in the file itself unless you have Raw files then the behavior is discussed as before.

                           

                          While not a technician to my knowledge xmp and metadata have nothing to do with the transition from 32 to 64 bit, this is only relevant for the OS and the Application software itself.

                           

                          You can run CS4 on both PPC and Intel and it does not require Rosetta to work on an intel machine. Some Plug ins for Photoshops might but that is depending on your custom plug ins, but everything in default CS4 is intel based and does not need Rosetta to run.

                           

                          I'm not sure when but first CS4 had both the ability for running on PPC and intel, somewhere later in the update or upgrade scheme they did not provided updates for PPC, which in all honestly is a good thing because the limitation of the PPC was reached and customers always want more and faster, hence they needed to transit CS5 to 64 bit and Bridge CS6 also.

                           

                          Don't recognize any problems with exporting keywords as a text file. I can open, read and alter this without any problems using the simple text application "Text editor" that comes free with your Mac. Open in MS Word needs converting but that goes also without any significant problems, I used unicode and only the first keyword had some strange characters in front.

                           

                          The files have keywords but a new version Bridge has them not (yet) as persistent in the keyword list, hence they show in italic and only are there if the files containing those keywords show in the content window. It really should be possible without problems exporting the list from CS4 and importing it in CS6, I have done so always for each version.

                           

                          Rating is also in the metadata itself and many other applications do reflect those settings made in Bridge. Labels are a different matter, As Curt already pointed out they will return white using different label naming or even different system language. This is a big flaw in Bridge and makes labeling for long terms unusable.

                           

                          And speaking of unusable, I often pointed out that Bridge is not suitable for use as real DAM (Digital Asset Management) due to the many times they have changed the preview and thumbnails cache system (every version their is a new one needing you to recache the lot.

                           

                          Hence for DAM I use Canto Cumulus single user and have my archive of 60K + finished files stored inhere. Keywords as well as rating added in Bridge do show in this application without problem, labeling does not.

                           

                          And since you do buy a new Mac (you have to as you already pointed out yourself, and be assured you will benefit from this upgrade ) their is nothing to keep you from testing it your self.

                           

                          As long as you have a back up of the original files and data stored safely you can experiment with all kinds of scenarios without the risk of losing previous data.

                           

                          Personally I have one 150 GB velociraptor (10.000 rpm) assigned as PS Scratch but do keep my cache file for Bridge on the start up disk (2 TB). But I also do dump the whole cache file manual on a regular base to start fresh again, I can do so because my archive resides on a dedicated DAM application that in it self is not very good in the tasks I use Bridge for, the right app for the right job.

                           

                          And SSD is nice but still far to expensive to be interesting, using a new Mac with current technology and enough space on HD and maxed out RAM (32 bit can address only 4 GB of RAM to PS, 64 bit more) you will experience a speed difference between PPC and new Mac with CS6 that can only be measured in light speed....

                           

                          Their are many theories about set up, some prefer to install only the applications on an SSD, others use it as scratch. As many users, as many workflows.

                          • 10. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                            Curt Y Community Member

                            Toaosog wrote:

                             

                            I already determined that CS4 installation might be a good idea, then 

                            allow the CS6 installer to sort things out.

                            I prefer clean installations.

                             

                            CS4 and CS6 are separate programs and do not interact, so the CS6 installer will not import any files from the older version.  If you want a clean installation you might as well install just CS6 and import the files manually from old machine to new using a thumb drive.

                            • 11. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                              Toaosog Community Member

                              The issue is translating CS4 Bridge specific data not embedded in any 

                              file to CS6 Bridge specific data.

                              Filetype is irrelevant.

                              The fact that CS4 will run on PPC and Intel with or without Rosetta is 

                              irrelevant. What is relevant .... is 32 bit CS4 Bridge data translated 

                              into 64 bit CS6 Bridge data.

                               

                              I must be noted that the trouble I have experienced with importing 

                              text data into CS4 are all based upon OSX 10.5 running on a PPC.

                              I have no idea whatsoever if these problems exist on CS4 running on 

                              Intel with OSX 10.5, 10.6, 10.7 or 10.8. ..... or CS5 or CS6 which 

                              only run on Intel.

                              How could I possibly know?

                              Tangibly.... I would need to rebuild an entire 10.5 system on a new 

                              Intel machine, install CS4 and repeat all tests. Why would I do that?

                               

                              As far as any comparisons go with importing or exporting keywords and 

                              ratings and such, ALL references relevant to this this topic MUST be 

                              performed on a PPC.

                              What can and cannot be done as a test must import CS4 PPC OXS 10.5 

                              installation (APM) to an Intel CS6 OSX 10.6 installation.

                               

                              I must keep repeating this.

                              The problems I experience may not exist on Intel installations and may 

                              not be an issue at all in CS6, I won't know for certain until I get 

                              there.

                              In short, the imported keywords can disappear and can also import into 

                              a massive mess.

                               

                              Can't believe I have to say this.

                              My preferred browser is Finder. Finder cannot see one single rating or 

                              label produced by Bridge at all but does read each and every keyword 

                              made by Bridge.

                              Therefore: ratings and labels are not embedded into the file in a 

                              manner that Finder can read and ARE Bridge specific on a PPC Mac 

                              running OSX 10.5.

                              The entire idea is to make finding and searching on my Mac not require 

                              ANY other program.

                               

                              Personal, as if it matters.....

                              All told, I have roughly 2.3 million photos and graphics on my 

                              machine. That is a fair amount.

                              My wife enjoys Bridge more than Finder, so Bridge is used. Our 

                              computer upgrade will require Bridge due to her preference.

                              A 120GB SSD dedicated to Bridge cache is quite cheap these days and 

                              most could get away with a 60GB Bridge cache SSD.

                              Sadly.... I have experienced a very nice operation performance but my 

                              machine only runs at 1.5GB/s not 3 or 6. Happily, they will run at 

                              full speed with a new Mac.

                              The electromechanical hard drive is well on its way to extinction, as 

                              it should be.

                              Truth is.... ever since the G3, I have never demanded more speed from 

                              my computer. I do demand compatibility and stability.

                               

                              SIDENOTE:

                              Nobody needs to explain to me the performance increases I will 

                              experience by moving to an Intel Mac.

                              I am a retired hardware engineer and actually designed a CPU system 

                              that would boot from power off to fully operational in 3 seconds flat. 

                              (No Software, no hard drive)

                              Comically.... designing a CPU does not give me much insight into 

                              software written to run on a CPU.

                              This is why I occasionally speak to people who are software savvy. I 

                              have very little interest in software designs but do need to know 

                              operation.

                              The comedy is.... very few of the software engineers are hardware 

                              savvy. (if they were, they wouldn't write code that crashes hardware)

                              My professional speciality was NEVER computers. My speciality was 

                              physics.

                              Translation: I only have average knowledge of software.

                              All help is appreciated, but Please keep it relevant.

                              • 12. Re: How do I import Bridge keywords and metadata to CS6 from CS4 so that I don't lose them if CS4 is not
                                Toaosog Community Member

                                Yes that is relevant.

                                The question becomes.... importing data from a 32 bit only system and 

                                Creative Suite installed on APM into a 64 bit only system and Creative 

                                suite installed on GUID.

                                This thread was initiated to address that uncommon situation.

                                 

                                My initial analysis states that my best method of success is to Not 

                                use an OSX that does not contain Rosetta.

                                In other words OSX 10.6 rather than 10.7 or 10.8..

                                Regardless.... I will not know if this will work at all so I created 

                                this thread and a clever solution to this problem contained within 

                                this thread.

                                What I sought is anyone else who had a similar situation and solution.

                                Specifically, CS4 PPC to CS6 Intel unique to Bridge only data.

                                 

                                Please note, Finder does not read ANY Ratings or Labels produced by 

                                Bridge CS4 on a PPC Mac running OSX 10.5.

                                THUS, the ratings and labels are not embedded as universal and are 

                                Bridge unique data.

                                 

                                This does NOT mean that the same holds true for ANY Creative Suite 

                                installation on Intel or PC systems and does NOT mean that this 

                                continues to hold true for CS5 or CS6.

                                Obviously, I will know when I know and no sooner.

                                So far.... all indications are that people using Intel machines and 

                                CS5 and CS6 do not have these troubles.

                                The source is most likely PPC RISC.