5 Replies Latest reply on Nov 16, 2012 6:51 AM by John Mensinger

    hyphenation troubles / no break / etc.

    ceencha Level 1

      Friends,

       

      Sometimes, EVEN THOUGH I add a discretionary hyphen, it still is not good enough.

       

      No matter what I do, it won't put the words I need on the same line.

       

      In general, I find the "no break" command extremely problematic, and I almost NEVER use it, if it is possible to avoid it (for instance, by adding a discretionary hyphen at the beginning of the word can help).

       

      I needed a hypen  in the word DEUS (first line of COLLECT):

       

      http://musicfortheliturgy.org/In_Design_Questions/996_HYPHEN.indd

       

      Even when I added a discretionary hyphen, it would still put "Deus" on the next line, like this:

       

      http://musicfortheliturgy.org/In_Design_Questions/995_wrong_HYPHEN.indd

       

      The only way I could get a discretionary Hyphen was using the "no break" command.

       

      Anybody else know any tricks?

       

      Obviously, I do NOT want to use a "real" hyphen, in case I made edits later that affect the text.  That hypen will always stay there if it is a "real" hyphen.

       

      The "no break" worked this time, but on other occasions it HAS NOT. Anybody know other tricks?  THANKS!!!

        • 1. Re: hyphenation troubles / no break / etc.
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Instead of linking to the files, would you mind embedding some screen shots in the post? That will preclude missing font or wrong version of ID problems and we can see waht you are talking about more quickly.

           

          And what version of ID are you running now?

          • 2. Re: hyphenation troubles / no break / etc.
            Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            I spend a lot of time working in languages in which the location of linebreaks can radically change the meaning of a word - and I have no problems like the ones you describe. There are so many tools that we can use to change the rag of a paragraph - No Break, non-breaking spaces, justification settings, soft returns, discretionary hyphens, and changes in paragraph composer, just to name what comes immediately to mind. I would have to say that I do not find No Break to be problematic in any way - the two most commonly used tools I employ when I toy with the rag are No Break and non-breaking spaces.

             

            As Peter points out, unless we're using the same font as you are, we can't really use the file you posted to help diagnose your problem. However, I would suggest to you that you may want to consider switching from the Paragraph Composer to the Single-Line Composer.

             

            That's the only "trick" I can think of to suggest to you - it changes the way the paragraph is wrapped, and while I don't love the way large amounts of text look when composed with the Single-Line Composer, it certainly is a bit more predictable than the Paragraph Composer. I suspect that this is why you find No Break problematic. The combination of the Paragraph Composer and No Break can be unpredicable if you don't know that the Paragraph Composer is trying to alter the rag of the paragraph algorithmically, to reach some kind of best-case paragraph composition scenario that doesn't always work.

            • 3. Re: hyphenation troubles / no break / etc.
              [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

              I'm with Joel, you might prefer to switch off the Paragraph Composer.

               

              It's a lobotomy with a hacksaw, though, as you are disabling one of InDesign's most powerful features.

              • 4. Re: hyphenation troubles / no break / etc.
                ceencha Level 1

                OK, I think I found part of my problem.

                 

                When using NO BREAK, I was selecting an entire "line" by using the "END" key (and the "HOME" key).

                 

                When I then hit "NO BREAK" something crazy happened.

                 

                I found out that I have to be very careful to select "only the words" and no extra spaces at the beginning and end.

                 

                Hopefully somebody out there understands what I mean ...

                • 5. Re: hyphenation troubles / no break / etc.
                  John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Hopefully somebody out there understands what I mean ...

                  Surely.

                   

                  You certainly must only apply No Break to the exact range of characters you want unbroken.

                   

                  This:

                   

                  When using NO BREAK, I was selecting an entire "line"

                   

                  ...certainly explains this:

                   

                  In general, I find the "no break" command extremely problematic