7 Replies Latest reply on Dec 5, 2013 4:45 PM by isizoom

    Isilon storage solution experiences?

    wfmc staffer Level 2

      We are a small community access facility with growing web streaming needs. We are currently running up to 5 individual CS 5x or 6x systems on Windows 7pro boxes, all core i7 $2k-ish builds; more like gamer PCs than higher NLE systems. Currently all active project\media storage is local on each system. Each system having 1.5 to 3 TB of dedicated media storage space.

       

      We are being pitched some isilon storage solutions in the near future. I was hoping to get feedback from any users with experiences with such. I had always assumed that any reliable networked storage solution was way out of our price range. I also see a lot of posts in the user forums from people having issues using assets over a network.

       

      I downloaded the white papers on Isilon's 1FS 6.5 Adobe CS 6 solution and, at a cursory glance without knowing prices, it seems like it might be cumbersome to manage.

       

      Any practical knowledge or stories out there? Suggestions for network storage for in-edit projects that might suite a small fish facility?

        • 1. Re: Isilon storage solution experiences?
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          The best you can do now (see below) is use a file server to keep a master of your video files, and copy files to/from the master over to individual computer for editing... which does, of course, require some kind of file check out/in software so only one person has any given file at a time

           

          No current version of Premiere works properly over a network

          -you may NOT "map" your My Documents folder to a network drive

          -you MUST give all users administrator accounts to use Premiere

          -you MAY also need to... http://forums.adobe.com/thread/969395

          -http://forums.adobe.com/thread/771151

          -http://forums.adobe.com/thread/851602

          -a work around, of sorts http://forums.adobe.com/thread/957523

          -and not on a "domain" http://forums.adobe.com/thread/858977

          -also PreEl see #5 http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1017199

          -more PreEl problem http://forums.adobe.com/thread/975117

           

          Someday, you will actually be able to USE files stored on a server

           

          Adobe Anywhere http://forums.adobe.com/message/4682127

          -Announced September 2012 for "future versions" of Premiere Pro

          -NO information on pricing or availability date

          • 2. Re: Isilon storage solution experiences?
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            Let me start out by saying I had never heard of Isilon and their storage solutions, so I can't comment on that. I do know that one usually finds HP Storageworks EVA solutions in larger companies, often based on VMWare and with huge backbones, think 40 Gbps and higher. See http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/data-storage/data-storage-products.html?compURI=1225752# .UJ4lYIcme8A

            and HP EVA P6000 overview

             

            Both approaches claim reduced IT costs, easy manageability, etc. However, the major hurdle to take is file access rights. Let's say two editors want to edit a project, one intending to do CC work and the other doing the titling. They have both opened the project and done their work and now want to save it. You can imagine the problems that can occur. One saves his work and all the work from the other colleague is overwritten.

            • 3. Re: Isilon storage solution experiences?
              Alex - DV411 Level 2

              Like Harm said, Isilon et al belong in larger shops with dedicated IT staff.  They're awesome (ease of setup, scalability, configuration, high availability, various data protection, replication, hardware redundancy and failover features, performance options), expensive, and it takes someone who likes tinkering with Unix shell commands and ACLs to set it up and maintain it.

              I had always assumed that any reliable networked storage solution was way out of our price range.

              Glad you brought it up: would love to hear your requirements, ideas about both - reliability and price range.  Performance, too - do you know what kind of bandwidth do you need to each node, and approximate aggregate one?

              I downloaded the white papers on Isilon's 1FS 6.5 Adobe CS 6 solution and, at a cursory glance without knowing prices, it seems like it might be cumbersome to manage.

              That it is, although primarily in two areas: (1) initial setup (shared folders, file permissions - like Harm said) and (2) establishing a shared assets workflow and training users for it. Without that training and some discipline on users' parts, it'll quickly become a quagmire: "what are these files and what are they doing in this folder?!".  One those two are taken care of, using it becomes fairly transparent.  However if any problems or issues occur, service and support will likely be as expensive as the solution itself.

              We are being pitched some isilon storage solutions in the near future. I was hoping to get feedback from any users with experiences with such. ...

               

              Any practical knowledge or stories out there?

              Not with Isilon but with its competitor EqualLogic (now owned by Dell).  Loved working with it, but I don't think it's a good option for less than 10 users and without someone trained to administer it.

               

              A less expensive option (that is not enterprise grade but is very fast) is GB Labs Space: about $20K to start with. This thing is a performance beast, working at line speeds (110MB/s per user) over 1GbE, and with up to 700MB/s bandwidth per user when configured with 10GbE.  Very little configuration or maintenance necessary.

               

              You could also get or build a custom Linux storage server that (which is basically what GB Labs Space is) - yet few vendors outside of GB Labs know how to configure such a thing properly for high bandwidth applications like video editing.

               

              The least expensive option is a NAS appliance like Synology.  Performance is limited to under about 100MB/s per port and 200MB/s aggregate (over two GbE ports) - but it's reliable, affordable, reputable.

               

              If you do need something that delivers 100MBs to five-six users simultaneously, I'd recommend GB Labs Space.

              • 4. Re: Isilon storage solution experiences?
                wfmc staffer Level 2

                Thank you so much, Alex and Harm. This gives me good reference points to research.

                 

                 

                Alex Gerulaitis wrote:

                 

                 

                I had always assumed that any reliable networked storage solution was way out of our price range.

                Glad you brought it up: would love to hear your requirements, ideas about both - reliability and price range.  Performance, too - do you know what kind of bandwidth do you need to each node, and approximate aggregate one?

                 

                I'm afraid I don't really have a context "nodes" and how they apply to Bandwidth, expectedly I can't estimate an aggregate either.

                Assuming that bandwidth is more or less the bitrate that a networked editing station can count on while editing, the available bitrate would at least need to match what we achieve with local dedicated 7200rpm SATA discs. We are editing footage that has a max of 50 mbps per stream, so more than 4 or 5 streams at that rate would be unusually high. Then one must consider any ancillary lower bitrate media accessed at the same time, any media caching Premiere does in the background. My fuzzy understanding is that 50 mbps would equal about 6-7 MB/s, so a constant 100MB/s seems like it should work in theory. In the field reality I'm sure is more complicated.

                 

                We have 5 PCs online for editing, and my guess would be 2 or 3 systems actively editing would be an average. Most of the projects bitrate requirements would be substantially lower than the max that I tried to estimate.

                 

                We are a small community access center transitioning into a non profit. We never have a bulging budget, so whatever storage system we invest in really needs to work with Adobe Premiere, be scalable for the future, and stay working without considerable IT headaches.

                 

                Local storage does offer simplicity and price advantages.

                 

                 

                Thanks again guys, much appreciation.

                • 5. Re: Isilon storage solution experiences?
                  isizoom

                  John, the Adobe Premiere Pro QA team and Adobe Anywhere engineering team both have Isilon clusters they use to validate Premiere workflows on network attached storage.  A number of there issues you point out are now are adressed by either running Adobe Premiere or following the recommendations in the white paper wfmc pointed out.  In a nutshell, keep project and all directory settings local, but keep your media on NAS and you elminate the issues associated with multiple users accessing project metadata or updating each other's media indexes.  If you're looking for true multi-user collaboration on the same project metadata, you'll need to look to Adobe Anywhere or MXFserver.

                   

                   

                  1.John T Smith,

                   

                  Nov 8, 2012 5:26 PM   in reply to wfmc staffer

                  Report

                   

                  The best you can do now (see below) is use a file server to keep a master of your video files, and copy files to/from the master over to individual computer for editing... which does, of course, require some kind of file check out/in software so only one person has any given file at a time

                   

                  No current version of Premiere works properly over a network

                  -you may NOT "map" your My Documents folder to a network drive

                  -you MUST give all users administrator accounts to use Premiere

                  -you MAY also need to... http://forums.adobe.com/thread/969395

                  -http://forums.adobe.com/thread/771151

                  -http://forums.adobe.com/thread/851602

                  -a work around, of sorts http://forums.adobe.com/thread/957523

                  -and not on a "domain" http://forums.adobe.com/thread/858977

                  -also PreEl see #5 http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1017199

                  -more PreEl problem http://forums.adobe.com/thread/975117

                   

                  Someday, you will actually be able to USE files stored on a server

                   

                  Adobe Anywhere http://forums.adobe.com/message/4682127

                  -Announced September 2012 for "future versions" of Premiere Pro

                  -NO information on pricing or availability date

                  • 6. Re: Isilon storage solution experiences?
                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                    I have to say after reading the white papers, the Isolan is definitely a nice solution. It's also really way beyond what you require and far more suitable for an enterprise environment and would be very difficult to maintain and admin without some serious training. I would suggest giving Alex or others a call and go over your requirements to get some other options that may be far more suitable for your workflow and staff.

                     

                    Eric

                    ADK

                    • 7. Re: Isilon storage solution experiences?
                      isizoom Level 1

                      Isilon is used in plenty of non-enterprise environments and it's one of the easiet NAS platforms to configure - especially if you are facing a rapid growth in storage and bandwidth requirements over time.  That said, the Isilon platform is usually not cost-effective until you require >50TB of high performance network attached storage.