23 Replies Latest reply on Dec 3, 2012 10:41 AM by Sanpanza

    Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D

    Sanpanza Level 1

      Hi Folks, I am trying to create two objects: something called a gravity well and a wire framed globe in Photoshop 3D CS6. The examples are here: http://www.carreonphotography.com/3D/   #'s 1/5 and 5/5. I tried using a gradient map to create a depth map but the form is not editable if I understand PS 3D correctly. Only the scale, light, texture and perspective.

       

      The surace of the gravity well needs to be a  white wire grid pattern over black with. The globe is basically the same. Can this be accomplished on Photoshop CS6 3D or do I have to farm this out to a 3D guy.

       

      I have included samples of my objectives: #1 and 5 plus screen shots of what I ended up with, the form of which was uneditable based on what I understand. I also don't know how I would create the wire frame once I have the form.

       

      I deally I would use the final images as png's on a 2D suface which I would later wrap onto a 3D surface.

       

      Any thoughs please!

       

      Thanks folks in advance:

       

      Ed Carreon

      www.carreonphotography.com

        • 1. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          Aside from your example being hugely incorrect in terms of the scientifics (I mean, polar coordinates and twisting similar to a tornado funnel, RLY?), I'm not sure what you are having difficulty with. Yes, you would have to create displacement maps to create the denting. A simple blurred circle will do just that. There's no magic involved beyond that. You just need to learn how to create these maps and experiment a little. And any grids can easily be simulated by crafting suitable grids with transparencies used as textures or relying on the wireframe rendering mode. So unless you are trying to turn a 3 minute project into the next "Tansformers" movie, there should be no need for any 3D program.

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
            conroy Level 5

            Leaving aside the "scientifics" that Mylenium mentioned, you can use an opacity map to create the grids.

             

            I used the Photoshop sphere mesh, but it's an extremely low resolution mesh and renders with obvious facets and a nasty fan-like pattern is seen at the poles. Photoshop provides no way to put a different material on front and back of a surface, so the inside of the sphere is too distinct for a good illustration.

             

            The well is a revolved extrusion of a path with the same grid opacity map as before. I set "remove hidden backfaces" otherwise it was a confusing mess of grids due to Photoshop being unable to extrude an open path (as far as I know). That made the bottom of the funnel invisible on one side, though. An edited opacity map could have solved that.

             

            With better models and some post-render work, you could create much better results than my quick effort to show that it is indeed possible to render your 3D grids with CS6 Extended.

             

            Screen-shot-2012-11-11-at-20.25.23.png

             

            Screen-shot-2012-11-11-at-20.25.28.png

             

            Screen-shot-2012-11-11-at-20.26.28.png

            • 3. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
              Sanpanza Level 1

              Hi Myenium, this was just an aproximation I was trying to achieive. I pulled the image off of Google as an rough example.

               

              Although, my Photoshop post produciton skills in some areas are fairly advanced I have very little experience with displacement maps.

               

              You are suggesting I don't kneed to work this in 3D but learn now to creat a displacement map? Where does the "wire frame renderning mode" come in then?

               

              Sorry; not quite understanding.

              • 4. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                Sanpanza Level 1

                Thank you Conroy. You have given me reason to think my reasoniong wasn't too distored. thanks for the examples.

                 

                I will research and experiment but if I get stuck would you consider allowing me to pay you to show me how to do this? I have only worked in 2D up until now have have little perspective on 3D processes and nomenclature. Thus far, I have found no one who could speak to this subject.

                 

                The project I am working on is: www.carreonphotography.com/balloon. I am currentlu stuck on the 3D aspect executing my next conceptual portrait and would love to pay some one to show me what I need to know.

                 

                Sincerely,

                 

                 

                Ed Carreon

                Photographer

                edward@carreonphotography.com

                323 342-9962

                • 5. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                  conroy Level 5

                  I'll be glad to help, but rather than be paid, I would much prefer you to contribute to this registered charity: http://www.pdsa.org.uk/

                  • 6. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                    Sanpanza Level 1

                    I would be happy to. If I get stuck I will email you and direclty contribute to pdsa.org

                     

                    Thanks Conroy.

                    • 7. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                      Sanpanza Level 1

                      Hi Conroy, I am stuck.

                       

                      I started off with a grid and from this made a "New Mesh From Layer" then used the "Mesh Preset" "Sphere". I ended up with the second image but there is no transparency (like yours) between the meridians event though I started with a layer of lines with transparent layer behind them.

                       

                      I get the same result even if I double click the "diffuse layer" and create a second file. Not sure what that process is called.

                       

                      I clicked the on the invisible check box in the Mesh Poperties panel think that the object would become transparent leaving only the meridiean lines wrapping the object but no such luck. It just all goes invisible.

                       

                      So at this point I, although slightly closeer to my objective, would be VERY, VERY HAPPY to donate to your cause if I could get a step by step from you. Happy to discuss when you get a moment. I am at my wits end.

                       

                       

                      Thanks,

                       

                       

                      Ed Carreon

                      www.carreonphotography.com

                      323 342-9962

                       

                      Screen Shot 2012-11-12 at 11.30.17 AM.png

                       

                      Screen Shot 2012-11-12 at 3.34.33 PM copy.jpg

                      • 8. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                        conroy Level 5

                        Hi Ed,

                         

                        The opacity is not controlled by opacity/transparency of the diffuse texture. A material has a separate opacity control that can accept a texture. I used a white grid on black background as seen in my third screenshot above - it operates similarly to a mask on a layer in a regular document. For the diffuse colour, I just used the material's diffuse colour picker and removed the (empty layer) texture that Photoshop had automatically given the material when the sphere was created on an empty layer.

                         

                        Screen-shot-2012-11-13-at-00.02.28.png

                         

                         

                        Then in that little menu that's revealed by the texture button (which has a folder icon for a reason I cannot fathom), pick "Edit UV Properties" to get the dialog shown below (with the mismatching title of Texture Properties). Changing U Scale to 200% will result in the square grid being tiled twice around the sphere to make "squares" around the equator.

                         

                        Screen shot 2012-11-13 at 00.06.07.png

                         

                         

                        Here are other settings used for the sphere render.

                         

                        Screen shot 2012-11-13 at 00.16.45.png

                         

                        Screen shot 2012-11-13 at 00.16.53.png

                         

                        Screen shot 2012-11-13 at 00.17.02.png

                         

                        Screen shot 2012-11-13 at 00.17.08.png

                         

                        Screen shot 2012-11-13 at 00.17.24.png

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                          SG... Adobe Employee

                          Hi Ed and conroy,

                           

                          Using Depth Map for mesh creation is going to cause you more heaache than help for this task. Revolving a path extrusion as conroy shows is a much better way to go. You'll need to iterate to get what you're after but it can be done with opacity maps as shown above.

                           

                          To get the inside rendering like your example takes an easy little trick (but it won't work so well for animation). Duplicate the 3d layer once you have the camera view set. On the top layer set the Scene attribute to Remove Hidden: Backfaces, but leave it off for the 3D layer below. Now on the layer below, apply a Saturation adjustment layer that clips to the 3D layer, adjusting it's values to lighten and desaturate.

                           

                          Here's a flattened version (with added crazyness) to show you the effect.

                           

                          regards,

                          steve

                           

                          3DribbonBallon.png

                          • 10. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                            Sanpanza Level 1

                            Firstly, thank you Conroy for your generous reponse. I did finally get my globe created this evenning which I will post tomorrow. Not a work of art but it will do nicely for my final objective as an element in a background which I will aslo post. I did not understand that the grid was a mask until just this evening.

                             

                            I think I will be able to create the gravity well with the information I you have given me. It has been a steep curve (curb)  for my 2D mind so I am grateful to you Conroy. I will make a donation tomorrow.

                             

                            Secondly Steve thank you for your  balloon is beautiful and it is exactly what I need to learn how to do on one of the images I have have semi-completed www.carreonphotography.com/balloon (first image) . The balloon is a place holder until I can learn to wrap musical notes on a balloon shaped object. First I need to assemble my current image. Perhaps then Steve and Conroy, you might consider a query from me?

                             

                            Sincerly,

                             

                            Ed Carreon

                            • 11. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                              conroy Level 5

                              Sanpanza wrote:

                               

                              Perhaps then Steve and Conroy, you might consider a query from me?

                               

                              Yes, of course!

                              • 12. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                conroy Level 5

                                SG... wrote:

                                 

                                "Remove Hidden Lines"

                                 

                                I think you meant "Remove Hidden Backfaces".

                                • 13. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                  SG... Adobe Employee

                                  Thx! I updated the post with the correction.

                                   

                                  I wanted to second Ed that your directions and screenshots are really helpful and much appreciated.

                                   

                                  regards,

                                  steve

                                  • 14. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                    conroy Level 5

                                    Thanks, Steve!

                                    • 15. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                      Sanpanza Level 1

                                      Hi Conroy, thank you for your help. Going is slow as I am juggling assignments, family obligations and a bad flu.


                                      I have the following questions:


                                      How do I eliminate the artifacts along the edges of the frontal vertices of the well?


                                      As recommended by someone on the forums I started with a 32 bit grid map but knocked it down to 16 bits to speed up the 3d engine. Was my thinking correct? Can I use a gray scale image instead so PS CS6 doesn't get bogged down?


                                      The output of the final document is 5000 X 5000 pixels but the gravity well is but small element in the background so I have made it 3000 by 3000. If the 3D engjine is using vector math to draw the lines, does size even matter?


                                      Can't figure out how to move a point light from the bottom so it matches the second example. I like the way this artist handles transparency in his grid. Can you tell me now to move the light. The interface is different than in CS5 tutorials.


                                      Last question:


                                      Is it possible to select all the shape layers containing horizontal lines and change their width simultaneously? I am doing so one layer at a time.

                                       

                                      Thanks in advance Conroy and whom ever else might reply.

                                       

                                      my_gravity_well.png

                                      other example.jpg

                                      grid_sample.png

                                      • 16. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                        conroy Level 5

                                        Sanpanza wrote:

                                         

                                        How do I eliminate the artifacts along the edges of the frontal vertices of the well?

                                         

                                        I think I know what you're referring to, but to make sure we're on the same page, repost the image with red ellipses/boxes surrounding the artifacts which trouble you.

                                         


                                         

                                        As recommended by someone on the forums I started with a 32 bit grid map but knocked it down to 16 bits to speed up the 3d engine. Was my thinking correct? Can I use a gray scale image instead so PS CS6 doesn't get bogged down?

                                         

                                         

                                        I used an 8-bit grayscale image for the grid and I rendered to 16-bit output (i.e. my main document's mode was 16-bit RGB). Rendering to floating point 32-bit output images can have advantages when using illuminants with realistic intensities but it usually requires subsequent tone mapping. I don't think your illustrative image will benefit from that, so I recommend you render to 16-bit.

                                         

                                        There is absolutely no reason to use a 32-bit per channel image for that grid opacity texture. The grid has only black and white and is entirely horizontal and vertical lines, so you should be able to get away with a 1-bit per pixel texture, but use an 8-bit grayscale texture because I know that works in Photoshop

                                         

                                         

                                        The output of the final document is 5000 X 5000 pixels but the gravity well is but small element in the background so I have made it 3000 by 3000. If the 3D engjine is using vector math to draw the lines, does size even matter?


                                        The polygons making up the surfaces that are rendered will be calculated with vector maths but the size of the opacity texture should be large enough to prevent it becoming fuzzy due to upscaling to cover the surface area when rendering an image of a given size. Remember that a texture can be tiled (up to ten times in each direction) to repeat over a surface (using the UV Mapping Properties), so your grid doesn't need to define every "square" of the well.

                                         

                                         


                                        Can't figure out how to move a point light from the bottom so it matches the second example. I like the way this artist handles transparency in his grid. Can you tell me now to move the light. The interface is different than in CS5 tutorials.


                                         

                                        Click on a point light with the Move Tool to activate its manipulator then drag on the heads of the red, green and blue arrows. You might want to switch view to each of the top, right and front views to aid alignment. You can store the current 3D view before changing then return to it. There's a secondary view window that can be enabled, which would aid with alignment, but it doesn't show lights for some reason.

                                         

                                         

                                        Is it possible to select all the shape layers containing horizontal lines and change their width simultaneously? I am doing so one layer at a time.

                                         

                                         

                                        Do you mean to scale the width of the lines without scaling their offset?

                                        1 person found this helpful
                                        • 17. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                          Sanpanza Level 1

                                          Hi Conroy, if I select a  shape layer with a line on it and select the shape tool it gives me the option of adjusting its stroke width. What if I want to adjust the stroke width or lined length to variousl lines on various layers at once. Is that possible?

                                          • 18. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                            conroy Level 5

                                            Hi Ed

                                             

                                            Changing the stroke of multiple Shape layers works here. Multiple Shape layers can be scaled simultaneously, too. Did these functions not work as expected when you tried them in your document?

                                             

                                            You may find a document easier to handle if you merge multiple Shape layers into one with Cmd/Ctrl+E. Maybe merge all the horizontal lines into one Shape, and all the verticals into another. The Path Selection Tool and Direct Selection Tool have stroke control and they have alignment and distribution controls similar to the Move Tool.

                                            • 19. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                              Sanpanza Level 1

                                              Thanks Conroy. Do you work for Adobe? I feel guilty leaning so heavlily on the Adobe forums.

                                              • 20. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                                conroy Level 5

                                                You've absolutely nothing to feel guilty about, Ed. Many of us participate here because we enjoy helping, and we improve our skills and knowledge by trying to solve problems. Please ask for any help required.

                                                • 21. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                                  Sanpanza Level 1

                                                  Hi Conroy and Steve, here is an updated link to the work thus completed: http://www.carreonphotography.com/balloon/   It still needs final text and finessing. Image number five is the image you all helped me with and if it were not for the ideas that 3D has spawned in me it would not have been worth the huge learning curve I had climb. Stay tuned for more difinitive 3D work.

                                                   

                                                  On an other note, could either of you tell me how to find a source of musical notations to bring into image #2 (girl with violin) . I have some sheet music (Ashokan farewell) that I want to wrap onto a transparent 3d object (balloon) . Just looking for the actual notes. For the equations in # 5 I used MathType to build the equations, then copied and pasted into Photoshop. They pasted as vector objects and scalled to my liking. I don't believe there is an option to bring them over as live text.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks Steve and Conroy

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Ed Carreon

                                                  www.carreonphotography.com

                                                  • 22. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                                    MrMathType Level 3

                                                    Re: MathType

                                                     

                                                    If the copy/paste from MathType into Photoshop was satisfactory, that's probably the best way to handle it. MathType does allow saving as EPS though, so if that would be better, you might try that.

                                                     

                                                    Bob Mathews

                                                    Design Science

                                                    • 23. Re: Trying to create a wire frame object in 3D
                                                      Sanpanza Level 1

                                                      Thanks Bob. I will try saving Math Type equations as EPS documents then copying into Photoshop but I was happy with copying directly from MathType into Photoshop as vector objects.