19 Replies Latest reply on Nov 14, 2012 4:26 PM by Pherank

    Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document

    Pherank Level 1

      I'm working on an interactive PDF in InDesign CS6, and somehow, I'm now getting "Please fill out the following form toolbars in Acrobat". There are no forms to my knowledge on the pages, only buttons. But I know InDesign has some kind of relationship between Button and Form objects. Any idea what is going on?

        • 1. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
          Petteri_Paananen Level 4

          Buttons are form elements.

          • 2. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
            Pherank Level 1

            A button isn't a form field to be filled in though. There wouldn't be anything to highlight as the toolbar suggests. Where's the form?

            • 3. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
              Petteri_Paananen Level 4

              If you have more than particular amount of buttons in your PDF, it´s considered to be a form. That´s something you just have to deal with whether you like it or not. That´s something Adobe has made up for us users.

              • 4. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                An Acrobat or Reader user can turn off the "Forms Document Message Bar." Go to Acrobat/Reader Preferences > Forms > Check "Always hide forms document message bar".

                 

                But there's no way to turn it off for someone you send the file to. You have to tell them how to turn off the bar.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                  MW Design Level 4

                  Are there labels on the buttons? What type of buttons? What is the setting for behavior?

                   

                  FWIW, there are certain interactive features best left to finalize (or create) in Acrobat or LiveCycle Designer. For instance, I recently did an interactive PDF in another company's application. While I do not get the form toolbar or messages, using buttons to show/hide larger versions of the images resulted in Reader or Acrobat setting the isDirty flag and users needed to opt to save or not upon exiting it. I nailed it down to this other application requiring labels on the buttons.

                   

                  Editing it in Acrobat, removing the labels and setting  the Behavior to None, solved the issue. Now the PDF opens, people can click through and view larger versions of the images and not be asked to save or not upon exiting.

                   

                  I have not made an interactive PDF in ID before (I either use Acrobat or LCD), so I don't know the options available.

                   

                  Take care, Mike

                  • 6. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                    Pherank Level 1

                    Very interesting. But I definitely have interactive PDFs with a great deal of buttons and hyperlinks that don't generate this special toolbar.

                    • 7. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                      Pherank Level 1

                      Great info, thanks. I do have a couple of show/hide buttons in place. So maybe that's the problem spot. I'm going to systematically go through and delete pages and generate PDFs to see if there's any difference in things...

                      • 8. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                        Petteri_Paananen Level 4

                        Amount of buttons has something to do with that. I don't remeber what was the exact number of buttons that triggers the form bar, may be it was 100 or so... I managed to get the bar visible usually when I had a long document and button(s) on master page...

                        • 9. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                          Pherank Level 1

                          Unfortunately this has turned out to be really difficult bug - and I have to call it a bug. After deleting all Hyperlink Destinations, I've discovered that I can never create more than 24 pages in InDesign CS6 without also generating the Form toolbar in Acrobat. And I'm talking about blank pages (and all existing buttons  had their destinations removed to begin with). There's something magic about the number "25".

                          • 10. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                            Pherank Level 1

                            http://www.burntscarlet.com/_test/help_forums/indesign-cs6_form_bug.zip

                             

                            This file is based on an actual presentation of 38 pages. The test file contains both navigation living on Master-B (and has its own layer), and a layer of navigation that is present on each and every page, up to page 34.

                             

                            Adding navigation to the remaining pages will produce the Form toolbar in Acrobat. Using only the Master-B navigation layer (and turning off the other one) will always produce the Form toolbar in Acrobat after something like 6 pages have been created (it can vary).

                             

                            Obviously, it doesn't make much sense to have tons of copies of the navigation - it should reside on one of the masters, and be referenced throughout the pages.

                             

                            I'd love to get some insight into this incredibly annoying issue. If we can narrow things down further, I could submit a bug report to Adobe.

                            • 11. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                              MW Design Level 4

                              Sorry, I don't have CS6...here is a copy of your PDF, altered in Acrobat to add pages.

                               

                              http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/indesign-cs6_form_bug.pdf

                               

                              If I could have opened the ID file, I would have tried setting all the buttons to have a Behavior of None instead of Push. Not certain there is any advantage of the Push setting for the file as shared.

                               

                              Take care, Mike

                               

                              Changed which file I couldn't open...

                              • 12. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                                Pherank Level 1

                                Sorry everyone, I forgot to add the page number display to the file - that's now been added in so you can get a better idea of what's going on. Petteri Paananen mentioned that the number of buttons may trigger the Form toolbar, but I've definitely run into this bug at various stages of file building, so I dont think the exact number is very important. Since this is most likely a CS 6 bug, I didn't want to get into messing with older versions to "muddy the waters". But I may test this with CS 4 which I also have access to.

                                 

                                http://www.burntscarlet.com/_test/help_forums/indesign-cs6_form_bug.zip

                                • 13. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                                  MW Design Level 4

                                  Yep, you need to test and resolve the CS6 issue(s).

                                   

                                  Point above I was trying to make is replicating pages in your PDF (my only option available) is that sure enough, adding the buttons as is triggers the error. However, changing a page to having the Behavior as None (instead of the Push for the roll-over effect) allowed me to add a lot of pages without tripping into the error.

                                   

                                  While the roll-over is a nice effect, if you cannot resolve the number of buttons issues, it is a work-around.

                                   

                                  Take care, Mike

                                  • 14. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                                    Pherank Level 1

                                    Mike, could you describe the "Behavior as None" process to us in detail? I'm not sure how that's done.

                                     

                                    Note: I've now tested the InDesign file on CS4 (saving as IDML file), and the CS4 exported PDF has the same issue. That doesn't mean that creating a file totally from scratch will have the issue, but I'm not feeling hopeful.

                                     

                                    For Adobe: what I would like to see is a better differentiation between actual forms (which involve form fields and submit/cancel functionality, and form field functionality - and navigational button objects. Yes, there are a few buttons on a form, but a button by itself does not consitute a form. And InDesign is forcing us to use this particular functionality to create our navigation schemes in  interactive PDFs. So the onus is on Adobe to sort through this problem. I'm not seeing any good workarounds at present. Corporate clients immediately notice things like new toolbars springing up, and don't want to be bothered with such things. So we need to be able to develop intereactive PDFs (that don't have actual forms) that do not produce form toolbars in Acrobat Reader.

                                    • 15. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                                      MW Design Level 4

                                      Hi Pherank,

                                       

                                      As far as I can see, and I did rebuild your sample in CS5.5, ID does not offer that option.

                                       

                                      In Acrobat, the following button properties dialog box is available and these buttons can be set to none and the PDF will work as needed with (as far as I can tell) unlimited pages. Including show/hide buttons.

                                       

                                      You will loose the ability to use rollovers. Until such time as Adobe opens up all the options one can do in Acrobat, though, it or LiveCycle may be the only means to inlcude or change the button properties.

                                       

                                      Take care, Mike

                                       

                                      none.png

                                      • 16. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                                        Pherank Level 1

                                        Thanks MIke!

                                         

                                        Ok folks, I have a simplified version of the file that demonstrates that all you have to do is add a 3rd navigation button of any sort to a Master page, and it will trigger the Form Document toolbar in Acrobat - if the navigation appears on more than 34 document pages. If the 3rd button is removed, and only 2 are used any number of pages seems to be possible.

                                         

                                        http://www.burntscarlet.com/_test/help_forums/indesign_bug_111312.zip

                                        • 17. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                                          MW Design Level 4

                                          Interesting--and thanks for the IDML version because the same issue is (and has been) present in CS5.5.

                                           

                                          In CS5.5, and removing the previous view button on master B, if I add 24 pages (the number I simply chose), the form toolbar notice still pops up.

                                           

                                          OK. For whatever reason, all buttons are exported as Push, even if there is no roll-over state. I think it is the number of buttons with the Push behavior that is triggering this and I see no way around that in ID (at least in CS5.5). I can create an interactive PDF in Acrobat using all sorts of buttons without issue.

                                           

                                          Take care, Mike

                                          • 18. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                                            Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                                            Pherank, This is just the way it is... Acrobat detects a certain amount of interactive elements within a PDF and then displays the Form Document toolbar inadvertently when you open file. There are a number of ways to prevent the Form Document toolbar from appearing, but here is the method I use. In Acrobat, enable some document restriction such as not allowing content copying or page extraction, this will prevent the unwanted form toolbar appearing.

                                            • 19. Re: Unintended Form Field(s) Somewhere in Document
                                              Pherank Level 1

                                              Thank you Jeffrey! That is the information I have been waiting for - a change that can be made in InDesign to keep the toolbar from appearing (although you mentioned Acrobat, it can be done in the Export dialog of InDesign). And it's not a workaround that I would describe as 'funky'. Great news.

                                               

                                              __InDesign_Disallow_Changes_and_Toolbars_2.PNG