11 Replies Latest reply on Nov 16, 2012 11:32 AM by rob day

    Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6

    Emperor1212 Level 1

      Exactly what the title says. The one on the right is from Indesign....the left one is after exporting (the same in preview and acrobat reader).Anyone know why this happens?

       

      Screen Shot 2012-11-15 at 7.11.27 PM.png

        • 1. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
          Youri Penders Level 1

          You are probably using 100% black instead of Rich Black.

          Go to InDesign preferences to change the appearance of black.

           

          Good luck!

          • 2. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            And under the Appearance of Black in your prefs change the dispaly to Display All Blacks Accurately. I set the output to Output All Blacks as Rich Black to ensure that 100% K does not get screened to a dark gray when the output is to grayscale.

             

            Normally the output choice makes no difference when exporting or printing to PDF, but if the destination is monchrome ID presumes that there may be rich blacks that need to be rendered darker than 0,0,0,100 and maps the output accordingly so that 0,0,0,100 is printed someplace inthe mid 90% range and 100% ink is available for a rich black if needed. Setting the output to all blacks as rich black treats all blacks the same (but only when the output is grayscale) and keeps your black type and other objects solid.

            • 3. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Black to ensure that 100% K does not get screened to a dark gray when the output is to grayscale.

              Peter, the OP's capture isn't showing a grayscale conversion.

               

              The one on the right is from Indesign....the left one is after exporting (the same in preview and acrobat reader)

               

              By default ID overprints 100% black (CMYK 0|0|0|100) and previews it as a lighter value than black plus a CMY mix, which is what will happen on an offset press. When 100% black overprints an image the image will show through (you can see the show through in your captures). Make a rich black swatch and ues it for your black fills, something like 60|50|50|100. You have to make a rich black swatch and apply it—the black appearance preference has no affect on CMYK export.

              • 4. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                Rob, I do know that. My comment was just a further recommendation for avoiding similar issues sometime in the future should the OP actuall want to do a grayscale conversion. It isn't obvious that the Output All Blacks as Rich Black setting has no effect on cmyk or RGB exports, but does on grayscale. It took me more than a few years to (and maybe some input from you) to figure that out and get solid type on one-color prints.

                • 5. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
                  Emperor1212 Level 1

                  awesome thanks guys. I had cheked that off years ago but recently upgraded to cs6 and forgot about that hehe. Is [registration] teh same as rich black? it looks like it on the screen..

                  • 6. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    Registration is a rich black, but not one you should be using for any printed project. It's a special color that is made of 100% of every ink in the document and is designed for putting marks on the various color plates when the separations are made. Using it for anything else will result in ink puddling and offset onto the back of the next sheet on a press or toner flaking off your laser prints on many papers.

                     

                    A more typical rich black mix would be 80, 70, 70, 100 or perhaps 70, 60, 60, 100 for a sheetfed press and 50, 40, 40, 100 for web, inkjet, or laser, but but you should check with the printer to see what they recommend. Rob may pop back with other recommendatins based on specific profiles, but keep in mind that although a profile may allow a total ink of up to 350% coverage, in practice it's usually better to stay below that for large areas as it's easier to control when actually putting the ink on paper.

                    • 7. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
                      Emperor1212 Level 1

                      oh wow....I guess I better undo that [registration] I just applied haha....it's to bad they dont make a rich black one of the stock swatch colors =)

                      • 8. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        In this case it looks like the color change is because the color mangement settings are not sync'd and not a color conversion—if there was a CMYK-to-CMYK conversion on export the image wouldn't show through.

                         

                        ID, Acrobat, and Preview all display some black CMYK mixes as something other than absolute black, but the preview depends on the color settings so there could be a shift if they don't match.

                         

                        Different black mixes US SWOP Coated with Black Point Compensation

                         

                        Screen shot 2012-11-16 at 10.22.59 AM.png

                         

                         

                        The same values with an Uncoated CMYK profile without BPC:

                         

                        Screen shot 2012-11-16 at 10.23.26 AM.png

                        • 9. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
                          Emperor1212 Level 1

                          I had no conversion...these were my settings.

                           

                          Screen Shot 2012-11-16 at 8.36.30 AM.png

                          • 10. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
                            ryan.marchese Level 1

                            I think that may have been a conscious choice (to leave a Rich Black out). Almost every output device has a different ink coverage threshold, and coupled with different color profiles this usually means there are different specific rich blacks. I work for a printing company and we have 3 different rich blacks that we need to use for our 7 devices.

                             

                            In most cases, mixes like the ones Peter mentions above will work fine across multiple devices. But it's hard to define a true standard when machines and color management are constantly changing.

                            • 11. Re: Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6
                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              I had no conversion...these were my settings.

                               

                              Right, your CMYK values are being exported unchanged, but the preview (or the conversion of the CMYK values back to your monitor's RGB space for display) in the different programs might change depending on the CMYK profile or color settings being used when you view.

                               

                              If a CMYK profile is included with the PDF, Acrobat Reader and Preview will use the profile for display, but it looks like Preview doesn't use black point compensation while Reader does:

                               

                              InDesign, Preview, Reader (ID has black point compensation turned on):

                               

                              Screen shot 2012-11-16 at 2.23.48 PM.png