17 Replies Latest reply on Nov 30, 2012 1:12 PM by tikigod19

    is RAID0 best for performance?

    tikigod19 Level 1

      Hi all, I'm looking at configuring a PC here:

       

      http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/computers/intel-2011-extreme/

       

       

      but I'm told that "Unfortunately due to limitations in the Windows operating system, the maximum supported RAID STRIPE (RAID 0) configuration is 2TB, consisting of 2 x 1TB hard disk drives. Please click back and reduce the size of your hard drives or alternatively de-select your RAID configuration"

       

      I have heard of people running much more than 2tb in a fast RAID so either this is wrong or I'm choosing the wrong type of raid. The only other type on that site is RAID1.

       

      The rough spec I'm looking at without knowing much about this sort of thing is as at the bottom of this post, but would love people's advice on what I've selected. My main reason for getting a new PC is I'd like more RAM and faster HDD performance but not sure if:

       

      - should I add select a 20gb SSD cache drive

      - I should stick to quad core processor or six core

      - which of the 4 MOBO's I should select - no difference in price or info on the spec differences

      - IF i decide to reuse existing pc and not sell, I have 4x 1TB WD Caviar black drives, can I mix and match these with the 1tb ones in my spec? If not I could select 1TB I suppose and therefore have 6x 1TB drives - if I do this whats best to do with these?

       

       

      Proposed spec:

      Processor (CPU)

      Intel® Core™i7 Six Core Processor i7-3930K (3.2GHz) 12MB Cache

      Motherboard

      ASUS® P9X79: INTEL® SOCKET LG2011

      Memory (RAM)

      32GB KINGSTON HYPERX GENESIS QUAD-DDR3 1600MHz X.M.P(8 x 4GB KIT)

      Graphics Card

      2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 660 Ti - 2 DVI, HDMI, DP - 3D Vision Ready

      Memory - 1st Hard Disk

      2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD2002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)

      2nd Hard Disk

      2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD2002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)

      1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive

      24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

      Power Supply

      CORSAIR 650W ENTHUSIAST SERIES™ TX650 V2-80 PLUS® BRONZE (£69)
        • 1. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
          tikigod19 Level 1

          the other option I'm toying with would be to reuse what I can from my existing system..

           

          namely:

           

          4x 1tb WD Black 7200rpm 64mb cache

          1x Geforce 660ti

          1x sound card

          1x bluray drive

          1x dvd drive

           

          12gb ram (would have to see how fast it is and what sticks I have, I asume 4gb's)

           

          by my reckoning I'd then just need a new case, 2 new hard drives (can I use raid0 with 6 drives or does it have to be 4 or 8?) new mobo and processor

           

          Sorry for being so vague, really looking for some initial advice

          thanks

          • 2. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            but I'm told that "Unfortunately due to limitations in the Windows operating system, the maximum supported RAID STRIPE (RAID 0) configuration is 2TB, consisting of 2 x 1TB hard disk drives. Please click back and reduce the size of your hard drives or alternatively de-select your RAID configuration"

             

            This is BS. See http://forums.adobe.com/message/3484862#3484862

             

            There is one other limitation on dedicated raid controllers and with huge arrays, so it will not apply in your case, but when creating a raid array, one often is offered the choice of 4K addressing or LBA addressing. 4K addressing is limited to 16 TB, LBA is not limited to 16 TB, so with huge arrays LBA is the only option.

             

            If you go to the FAQ section, a lot of your questions have already been answered, for instance about Raids, their performance, risks, etc. Make sure that the address in your browser shows at the end 'view=overview' without the quotes.

             

            If you go to http://ppbm7.com/index.php/intro-part-1 you have a whole lot of information on building a system, including PSU. For memory look at: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1098759?tstart=0

             

            PS. I had a look at the site of this PCSpecialist and the configuration options. To put it mildly, I'm not impressed. They offer choices that are not even introduced on the market and will not be for another 4-6 months, and they have very few options, most of which I would forget about.

            • 3. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
              tikigod19 Level 1

              thanks for taking the time to look at the site Harm. The only reason I use them is I recently bought a laptop for cs5 and it was the only place I could find that used multiple hard drives instead of one drive split into two using partitioning (after taking your advice to get one with 2 drives)

               

              I'm starting to think it'd be a waste to not re-use the 1 year old hard drives, 12gb 1600mhz ram, dvd drives and a couple of other bits so I may well go for another self build. I'm just always a bit worried about this and last time I set up a RAID0, the start up time was increased to about 3 minutes so I assumed I'd done something wrong and removed it..

               

              I think you've already told me SSD are not worth it if mixed with SATA drives but could you confirm thats correct? I want to make sure I don't make any mistakes with this spec as I can't be changing my system every year or so!

              • 4. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                The 2TB limitation has to do with Disk Initialization type. When you initialize a Disk in Windows you have 2 options. 1 is Basic MBR Disk which does have the 2TB limitation and the other is GPT which does not. Make sure you initialize the Disk as GPT. Another benefit of GPT is it loads the File system at the beginning and the End of the array which makes it easier to recover if you have a drive drop out provided you have the software or raid level to do it. I would suggest you just use GPT for all Raid Volumes.

                 

                Eric

                ADK

                • 5. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                  tikigod19 Level 1

                  thanks guys, I think I'll go for another couple of hard drives totalling 6x 1TB in total and if I set them as RAID0 it's my understanding it'll still show as 6TB, be quicker, but have no redundancy

                  • 6. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                    tikigod19 Level 1

                    ok maybe I wont.. I just read on one of Harm's links that drives in RAID0 are twice as likely to encounter problems as non raid drives. When coupled with the fact that 1 drive failure = array failure, I might have to consider RAID10 if I can use 8 drives but will it be as fast as RAID0?

                    • 8. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                      tikigod19 Level 1

                      thanks Harm, very helpful. Although raid10 is not mentioned other than in the table I think I'm right in saying it's RAID1 with the extrea redundancy and runs just as fast as RAID1 (209mb/s in your test), the only disadvantages being double the number of disks needed. Sounds like this is the one for me, but I think I'll end up with the same 4TB that I currently have as can't really stretch to more than 8 disks.

                       

                      Having said all this I've NEVER had a HDD fail and have 2x external USB backup drives with all video files only on. If I found a program to periodically backup just the project file to a network drive (or dropbox or something similar) then the need for the second set of backup disks is reduced significantly..

                      • 9. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                        Alan Craven Level 4

                        I think that Acronis True image 2012 or 2013 will do the regular backup that you require.  It has a feature to synchronise one folder with a backup, including in the cloud.

                        • 10. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                          Raid 10 is a good raid level if you are attempting to use the onboard controller. The onboard controllers are very poor at parity raids but are ok with Raid 10 provided you dont have an issue with extremely long rebuild times if a drive fails. The performance is excellent though the number of disks required is poor.

                           

                          Eric

                          ADK

                          • 11. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                            tikigod19 Level 1

                            thanks Alan and ECBowen.

                             

                            Rebuild time not an issue for me. This onboard controller being poor at parity raids might explain why RAID1 was so slow when I dabbled with it (is that a parity raid?). I'd like to get the ball rolling and go for RAID10 I think. Do you still RAID the OS drive as well or is it best to get a SSD for that/leave it as a single non raided drive?

                             

                            I dont understand the first thing about controllers and whether I let the on board controller do the work or buy a dedicated one. Are they an external piece of hardware?

                             

                            I'm looking at a new motherboard and CPU also so if anyone has any siggestions for mobo with a decent raid controller I'd love to hear them. Obviously needs 8 RAM slots, USB3.0, PCIE3 and the capacity to use 8 or maybe one day 12 HDD's.

                            • 12. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                              Alan Craven Level 4

                              I set the Intel ports to RAID before installing Windows, even though I knew that I was going to install Windows on a non-RAID SSD, and that creating a RAID was some way down the line. This order of doing things is essential.  I have my C:\ SSD on Intel port 0, and a 500GB Velociraptor on  port 1, which leaves Intel ports 2-6 free for a RAID10.  Though I use 3 and 4 only, in RAID0.

                               

                              RAID10 is not a parity raid, and I am sure I have read Eric Bowen saying that the on-board Intel chips are OK for RAID10, but NOT for parity RAID.  The on-board chips are fine for RAID0 in my book, but you MUST use the latest drivers, etc. especially for any Marvell ports.

                               

                              I use a Gigabyte GA-X79-UD5, which has 2 Intel 6Gbs ports, plus 4 Intel 3 Gbs ports, which can be "RAIDed".  It also has 2 pairs of 6GBs Marvell ports which can be RAID0 or 1. A third Marvell port offers 2 eSATA ports on the rear panel.  This allows you 10 internal drives, if you want 12, then a cheap 2 SATA port card can be added to a PCIe slot.

                               

                              In the expectation that this will be slammed by those who know better, I stress that this is my own view based on my limited personal experience.

                              • 13. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                                tikigod19 Level 1

                                Hi Alan, thanks so much for the reply, i wanted to get on here sooner but have had a manic weekend.

                                Although I don't understand a fair bit of what you said!! I think I get the main points, thanks very much. A few follow up questions if I may..

                                 

                                 

                                - Would recommend installing your OS on an SSD then? I checked my C drive and it's 192gb. Do you think this would be too much to put on a 256gb drive without slowing it down?

                                 

                                - What is a 500gb Velociraptor and what do you use it for?

                                 

                                - What is a Marvell port?

                                 

                                - it appears the Gigabyte GA-X79-UD5 is quite hard to get hold of now. Could you recommend a more current board or let me know what I need to look out for in the spec? I usually buy my parts from www.aria.co.uk and I'll also be buying a CPU so I may look for a motherboard + CPU bundle.

                                 

                                "In the expectation that this will be slammed by those who know better, I stress that this is my own view based on my limited personal experience."

                                 

                                Thank you again for offering your advice, it's all I have to go on at the moment and would never rush in and buy what one person advises without thoroughly researching so don't fear speaking your mind.. I just wish I could understand more of whats in there!

                                • 14. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                                  tikigod19 Level 1

                                  correction, it seems your mobo is easier to get than I thought. It says it has 6x 6gb/sec sata prots. Would I use these for 1x 256GB ssd, and 4x 1TB 7200RPM drives in raid10? If this is the case, could you confirm the drives would show as follows:

                                   

                                  1x 256GB

                                  4x 1TB

                                   

                                  or

                                   

                                  1x 256GB

                                  1x 4TB

                                   

                                  or

                                   

                                  1x 256GB

                                  2x 1TB

                                   

                                  Also just found out I have 6x 2GB sticks of Corsair XMS3 1600mhz ram in my PC that i wanted to re-use.. this means in order to get to 24gb ram I'll need a mobo with 12 ram slots, or I have to sell my current ram which I wanted to avoid. Does anyone know if mobo's exist that take 12 sticks?

                                  • 15. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                                    Alan Craven Level 4

                                    As I said in my post, I have my system installed on an SSD - SSDs are not improved by frequent re-writing of files.  I use the fast velocipraptor for  non-video files which are frequently re-written, e.g. My Documents, digital stills, e-mails, video, project files.  I placed my swap file on it first, and have it set at a fixed size of 32 GB.  This saves space on the system drive.

                                     

                                    Again as I said the GA-X79-UD5 has 6 Intel SATA ports, two 6Gbs and four 3Gbs.  It also has three Marvell chips, each of which offers two 6 gbs SATA ports, but only four are available for internal use as one pair serve eSATA ports on the back of the case.

                                    • 16. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                                      tikigod19 Level 1

                                      thanks Alan, I don't know what a swap file is, I don't know what you have set at a fixed size of 32GB and i don't know what a Marvell chip is. This is why I might ask what seem like silly or repetative questions.

                                       

                                      I'm certainly getting somewhere and if you say your system performance is excellent then I can use that as a base.

                                       

                                      My prelimanary research has led me to add these to my shopping list:

                                       

                                      32GB ram

                                      Motherboard

                                      Processor - this is what I'm not certain about as I don't know what's worth the money. 12mb cache cpu's seem to double this one in price.

                                      Velociraptor - after reading up on these I think it's a great idea to work with an SSD to form my system drives.

                                      SSD Drive - again, don't know which are recommended and which aren't.

                                       

                                      If I have made any glaring errors, I'd love to know!

                                      • 17. Re: is RAID0 best for performance?
                                        tikigod19 Level 1

                                        ok well I made some further purchases today.. 32gb of kingston 1600 ddr3 ram and a crucial m4 sata3 256gb SSD, I'm going to buy a 512gb velociraptor and GA-X79-UD5 now, but I dont know what to go for on the processor front...

                                         

                                        I will most likely be buying from dabs.co.uk, ebuyer.co.uk, overclockers.co.uk, or aria.co.uk.

                                         

                                        As it's clear I'm not just ignoring the advice in this thread, indeed I'm spending several hundreds of pounds based on it, some more at this stage would be VERY much appreciated!