9 Replies Latest reply: Nov 19, 2012 3:11 PM by alexdejesus RSS

    Export clips to re-import for further editing?

    alexdejesus Community Member

      REF to the following discussion: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4846909#4846909

       

      Excuse  me for butting in, but this is related to my question. I, too, wanted to export at a 'matching original' format so as not to lose any quality. And noticed the same 50% quality output.

       

      Some of the clips in my project needed denoiser applied before bringing into a sequence for editing with other clips. but they won't play in realtime, even with CUDA. I thought I might put each clip on its own sequence, apply the effects, and export out the new denoised clip to re-import. But with the matched setting, it seems the quality is noticeably degraded. I can't really tell because my monitor is not professional.

       

      I also tried the DNxHD format, but it created huge files and poor quality video. Perplexed about that one, as I was expecting a ProRes type quality on the PC.

       

      So, if the matched setting is not adviseable, what then is the best output format to use for HDV material to be re-imported back in for further editing? I am thinking h264 at a high data rate like 24-25 Mb/sec.  Or is that advisable at all?

       

      And, I assume the original clips with denoiser effect (red bar) do not need to be rendered before exporting?

       

      I have a reasonably fast PC, 32 G RAM, NVidia GTX580 Ampd! video card, i7 3.4 MHz processor, separate RAID 0 drives for footage and previews. And CS6 apps.

        • 1. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
          Steven L. Gotz Community Member

          Alex,

           

          You failed to mention what your original footage format is. Also, which effect are you talking about? The only denoiser in Premiere Pro is an audio effect. Are you saying that requires a render?

           

          Sorry, but a little more info is probably required for us to assist.

          • 2. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
            alexdejesus Community Member

            I'm sorry. I did say HDV material I think in the 4th paragraph. The3rd party "Neat Denoiser" is what I am using, although Magic Bullet's denoiser also gives the red bar. I have yet to see any audio effects cause any problems.

            • 3. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
              Steven L. Gotz Community Member

              Ah. I see it now. Sorry.

               

              Well, there are a lot of people who disagree with me. However, that being said, I use the Cineform codec when I edit a serious project in Premiere Pro. By serious, I mean other people are paying for it, or I really want to show off a high quality job, or I need to do something like you are doing. I don't always bother when I am just goofing around.

               

              Try the H.264 and see if you are happy with that. This is really up to you and your eyes to make the decision. If the H.264 is good enough, great! If not, check into Cineform

               

              They used it on the movie Act of Valor.

              • 4. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
                the_wine_snob CommunityMVP

                Along with Steven's suggestions, which are very good, you might also want to look to Lagarith Lossless, and UT Lossless, as Export CODEC's, for additional editing.

                 

                Thank you for the clarification on Denoiser. I too had assumed Audio w/ Denoiser Effect, but you mean a Video noise removal operation - totally different.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
                  alexdejesus Community Member

                  Steve, I'm curious to know why you say people disagree with you on the Cineform? I know it's been around a while. Is there something newer/better for HDV? Otherwise, looks promising, but I'd prefer not to have to spend that kind of money.

                   

                  I downloaded and installed the Lagarith codec, but I don't know how to access it. It does not show up anywhere in AME or Premiere as an export choice. I'm grabbing the UT codec pack now

                   

                  The h264 transcode seemed okay qualitywise, but took forever at a target 24 Mb/sec, and crashed the computer (blue screen) in the middle of a an encode. It happened twice with longer clips (15 min)

                  • 6. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
                    Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                    Well, a lot of people say it isn't necessary anymore. I believe that the way that the codec actually encodes the video using wavelets (insert a lot of techie gobledegook here) is beneficial to my workflow. It makes it easy to export and reimport in various programs.

                     

                    I have suggested Cineform a few times lately and have received rather fierce objections. Almost to the point of ridicule. Yet, I figure if it is good enough for a major motion picture, it is probably good enough for me. I remember when we had to pay $299, so paying $129 doesn't seem excessive to me. 

                     

                    I haven't researched this yet, but I think it might even solve the problem of keeping AVCHD in the original folders.

                    • 7. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
                      alexdejesus Community Member

                      Oh, so you're talking Neoscene correct? I looked at the pro apps. I am now trying out Neoscene and it seems to convert m2t files pretty quick. Then I'll try a capture and work with it tomorrow

                       

                      Since a lot of my work is in dark places (nightclubs, etc.) and my Canon XHA1s is not the best in low light, I frequently have to deal with video noise. And color correction is a nightmare. For some reason, I don't have a lot of latitude for adjustments before the picture breaks down.

                       

                      I have exported with red bars over the timeline. Not sure if I need to render everything before exporting, but it seems to work if I just let it run overnight. 

                       

                      The Cineform may be a solution if it encodes pretty quick and facilitates color correction

                       

                      Lagarith and UT codecs are installed, but they do not appear anywhere as a choice. Where should I find them?

                       

                      Message was edited by: Alex DeJesus

                      • 8. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
                        Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                        Alex,

                         

                        I suppose it would not be helpful to suggest a different camera - one with better low light capabilities, but it might be worth considering.

                         

                        Cineform will interpolate the 4:2:0 chroma to 4:2:2 and has it's own color correction tools. I imagine that will help you immensely. I used to capture directly to the Cineform codec and need to start doing that again if I ever get around to taking the HDV camera out of the bag again. If you capture to it, there is no time lost to speak of.  I am not sure if I am going to do that much after I buy my new DSLR next month, except to use as a second camera or for b-roll but you never know. If my research determines that I am sticking with Cineform after I change cameras, I will be posting the reasons here on the forum, just to let people know what I found.

                         

                        And no. You don't need to render in order to export, but most people do so they can see the video in real time before exporting.

                         

                        Lagarith can be found under AVI. You have to change the majority of the parameters from codec to frame size to filed order and more, but you can get there. I have never used UT so I can't help there.

                        • 9. Re: Export clips to re-import for further editing?
                          alexdejesus Community Member

                          I've got my eye on a Canon XF305 or 300. If I don't raise enough cash, one of the lesser units. Especially since one of cameras' tape carriage is broken.. But for right now, I am holding off.

                           

                          I did find the Lagarith, which defaults to SD format. The HDV settings are taking forever to convert. Defeat's my purpose.

                           

                          Found out Neoscene does not include the importer for CS6. Had to install Cineform Studio (trial)