16 Replies Latest reply on Nov 26, 2012 5:35 PM by TLL...

    Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good

    TLL... Level 3

      Doing the kind of work we do, we navigate around imagery @ high magnifications using the scroll bars on the bottom and right side of a floating image window. I just discovered that this single-click-moves-one-screen view behavior that we have grown to depend on in every previous version of PS is broken/erratic/not reliable at all in CS6.

       

      On my pc I'm using a Logitech G500 gaming mouse with programmable sensitivity, so I thought that might be the problem. But my coworkers (we have 5 additional CS6 installs at the moment, all up to date) using standard Dell mice are encountering the exact same problem - if you do not tap the left click with just the right pressure the screen will advance TWO places - or sometimes not at all. A normal mouse click will advance the screen two places. My pc has a different video card that the rest as well, and I've tried the basic, normal advanced and no GPU support NO change in this behavior.

       

      This is a real deal breaker AFA getting CS6 integrated into our shop. I can grudgingly put up with some of the pointless UI changes made in this version, but to have such a basic and essential navigation tool busted 'out of the box' on 6 different computers is totally unacceptable.

       

      Any help would be appreciated...

        • 1. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
          TLL... Level 3

          Really? No one else can duplicate this problem?

           

          Message was edited by: TLL... 11/21/12

          • 3. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
            Curt Y Level 7

            Don't see how it can be anything but a mouse controller, or some software interference that is common to all as have not seen this problem posted before.  Have you tried a wired mouse?

            • 4. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
              TLL... Level 3

              Thanks for the reply. These are all wired mice, mine's a Logitech USB and the others are standard Dell USB. Everything's running on Win7 Pro 64 bit and auto updated via windows update. All machines have Nvidia gpu cards and should also have updated drivers. This is very strange in that CS5 works perfectly on all and CS6 doesn't. I may have to call Adobe about this but any ideas on how to troubleshoot this on my own would be great since I've got some time to do it.

              • 5. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                Curt Y Level 7

                What tool are you using when you see this problem? 

                 

                Does problem exist at 100% magnification?

                • 6. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                  TLL... Level 3

                  It really doesn't matter what tool I've selected (using lasso, clone, heal most of the time) because when you drop into the scroll bar you get the arrow cursor. Problem occurs @100% and above. I do a lot of viewing @150-200% and this method of using the scroll bars is a critical method to ensure viewing of 100% of the image at 'x' magnification.

                   

                  I'm going to try a update of my Nvidia Quadro 2000 drivers to what their website says is the latest and greatest (QuadroTesla Desktop Driver Release 304)...

                  • 7. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                    Curt Y Level 7

                    Tried at various magnifications up to 1200% with lasso tool.  Did not have any problems.

                     

                    CS6 extended, Win7 64 bit ATI driver.

                    • 8. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                      emil emil Level 4

                      Not a direct help with solving your problem and I don't have CS6 but I've never used this for zooming after they introduced Ctrl + Space + dragging left or right on the image  to do the same.

                      And I think both zoom methods requires certain OpenGL enabled in the Performance Settings of the Preferences.

                       

                      edit: I think I misunderstood you, you were talking about scrolling (panning) the image with the scroll bars, and I thought it is about zooming. Alternatives that I can offer for this is page up/down keys, and hold H to get temporarily the hand tool and pan.

                      • 9. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                        TLL... Level 3

                        Well, I've updated the video drivers and plugged in a different mouse and the situation remains the same - erratic (jumpy by 2 screens, or no movement at all) scroll bar behavior.

                         

                        Emil - you're right the second time, I'm talking about controlled scrolling through an image at 'x' magnification. this technique has been used here for 10 years and I cannot accept that just because this is CS6 I need to find a different way to do this. What I'm experiencing is fundamental failure of the UI.

                         

                        I'm hoping that this is some dumb thing that has an easy fix - a long time ago with CS3/WinXP there was an issue with a mouse sensitivity or acceleration for games option in the standard Windows mouse drivers that effected cursor behavior. I don't think those options exist anymore. I'll continue to look for a solution and any help will be appreciated.

                        • 10. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                          sara_kiesling

                          This is the issue I've been having with CS6 AND CS5 on my new (non-Retina) MacBook Pro when scrolling/panning...is this what's happening for you, as well?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyRBUiDjavM&feature=youtu.be 

                          • 11. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                            TLL... Level 3

                            No, that's not it. If you were to L click in the lower right area in the scroll bar, the screen should move 1 screen area to the right. My problem is that it wants to move 2 screen or sometimes not at all. and it still does this after a video driver update and after trashing my prefs. The problem hasn't gone away by itself either.

                            • 12. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                              Noel Carboni Level 8

                              Sorry, didn't see your thread until now.

                               

                              If you click on a scroll bar in Photoshop CS6 it will immediately repeat without waiting the normal amount of time before repeating, which yields multiple page scrolls.

                               

                              This seems to be a departure from more or less standard UI behavior of the past, where there is a slight delay before the repeat starts - though Photoshop isn't the only application to do it (Internet Explorer is another offender).  It's been known since Photoshop CS6 was first released.  I believe it may even have been reported in the public beta.  I wouldn't bet that this isn't the intended behavior.

                               

                              A workaround is to click the mouse right next to the scroll thumb, which will result in a one page scroll operation.

                               

                              Note:  It may be that a configurable delay value somewhere in the system is affecting the timing.  I have purposefully shortened several delays on my system to make it more responsive, so what I'm seeing may not be what people see in the general case.

                               

                              -Noel

                               

                               

                              P.S., I can pretty consistently reproduce the problem where it won't scroll at all by clicking in the scroll bar (causing a page scroll), then clicking again soon thereafter.

                               

                              P.P.S., I just re-tested:  I can reproduce the expected behavior, including a short (near half second) initial delay and consistent response to clicking with Photoshop CS5 on this same system.  Photoshop CS6 definitely degrades the scrolling experience.

                              • 13. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                                TLL... Level 3

                                Hey Noel, you finally saw this! Thank you for the response.

                                 

                                Ennaway, I think I understand what you are saying however your 'solution' I think in the end (if we truly have to live with this) will doom CS6 as a serious QC tool - which is very dismaying to me and my co-workers. We have depended on PS for literally years to dependably view geospatial imagery at multiple magnifications. Every version of Photoshop including CS5 performs this function flawlessly on the exact same systems that CS6 fails to.

                                 

                                You mentioned system timing - anything I can do with this to get decent scrolling behavior?

                                 

                                Not to be overly bitchy but come on Adobe, why foist this apparently buggy code on us as an improvement? It's my butt on the line when I convince my boss to invest THOUSANDS of dollars in upgrades to find that along with a marginally improved feature set we get crippled implementation of things that we should fully expect to work - like the basic PS UI. This whole idea of having to-be-very-careful-of-where-you-click or else the basic navigation tools will fail is simply not acceptable and I'm surprised that more people haven't had the same problem.

                                 

                                It looks like I'll have to take this up with Adobe proper.

                                • 14. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                                  Adobe would have to say whether they've changed the timing to be dependent on something different than before.  As I mentioned, with Photoshop CS5 on the same system the scroll bar operates as expected, even with my current configuration.

                                   

                                  Just so it's clear, this is what's expected (and not what Photoshop CS6 is delivering):

                                   

                                  1.  When one clicks on the area in the scroll bar not on the scroll thumb, the display will immediately move the thumb, scroll one page, then begin an initial click delay.  Under no conditions should a mouse click even in this area be ignored.  Even a double-click should be recognized.

                                   

                                  2.  After the delay, e.g., 400 ms, has been exhausted and the mouse button is still held down and the thumb has not reached the mouse position, the display will move the thumb, scroll another page and begin a short repeat delay.

                                   

                                  3.  After the short repeat delay is exhausted and if the mouse button is still held down and the thumb has not reached the mouse position the display will move the thumb, scroll another page and restart the short repeat delay.  This step will be repeated until the scroll thumb reaches the current mouse position or the mouse button is released.

                                   

                                   

                                  Modern UI designers apparently seem to think the required behaviors of controls are "more like guidelines than actual rules", because as I mentioned other apps seem to be eliminating this initial delay - presumably to increase responsiveness.  But it's wrong to do so.

                                   

                                  -Noel

                                  • 15. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                                    TLL... Level 3

                                    The display behavior as outlined in your 1,2,3 is correct - you click ONCE in the open scroll bar area (typically from somewhere near the center and move progressively to your right as the screen moves right) and the screen SHOULD pan ONE screen to the right. IN PS CS6 this does not happen, or is very erratic.

                                     

                                    The workflow is - click, pause, view, click, PS move one screen, pause, view, click etc.

                                     

                                    See attached

                                     

                                    scroll.jpg

                                     

                                    Same thing with the up/down bar to the right.

                                    • 16. Re: Scroll bar navigation w/mouse very erratic - not good
                                      TLL... Level 3

                                      Just an FYI - I just did some simple scrolling about on my home workstation (Dell Studio XPS, 12GB ram, ATI video PS CS6 Ext, win7 64) and have the exact same behavior...