16 Replies Latest reply on Nov 26, 2012 6:47 AM by Steven L. Gotz

    Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them

    cheeeeesus

      Hello

       

      I have a bunch of video clips, each having the same original size. I want to combine them so that they run in parallel on one screen, about like that:

       

      premiere_clipwall.png

      (this is simplified, I have more clips than shown on this sketch)

       

      Then, I want to slowly zoom in on one of the clips until it appears full-size. Then, zoom out so that all clips appear, then zoom in on the second clip, etc.

       

      What's the best way to do that in Premiere Pro? Zooming each clip individually is way too much work, since there are so many clips. So, I need a way to apply the zooming effect to all of them simultaneously.

       

      I first thought of creating this "video wall" in sequence 1, whithout having any zoom there. Then, I'd nest sequence 1 into sequence 2, so I'd have only one track in sequence 2, and I could apply the zooming effect there. Unfortunately, this does not work: If I do it that way, there is a huge quality loss because the clips are scaled down in sequence 1, and then scaled up again by the zoom effect. I was surprised of this quality loss, I thought there was no quality loss if I un-checked "Use Previews".

       

      Thank you for any hints!

        • 1. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Each clip on a separate track. Each track scaled and positioned where you want them. That gives you the wall. Then overlay the 'Wall'' tracks with the clip you want to see at full size using a keyframed scale to resize to 100%. Repeat for the next clips.

          • 2. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
            cheeeeesus Level 1

            Thank you, but I don't see how to do the zooming effect this way. The zooming effect should be an animation. One second after the zooming started, it should look like this:

             

            premiere_clipwall2.png

             

            If I just overlay the wall with a clip at full size, I won't have an animated zoom.

            • 3. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

              Please don't double-post.  I deleted your other topic.

              • 4. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Say clip x on the wall is 15% of its original size. On the overlay track start with a scale of 15% and then keyframe it to go to 100%. Same for position. Use keyframes to create the animated zoom.

                • 5. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                  cheeeeesus Level 1

                  In the example above: Say I do a zoom to clip 1. Then, shortly before clip 1 is full-size, the adjacent clip 2 can be seen to the right. The quality of clip 2 on the wall is so bad due to the down-scaling-up-scaling, that I would have to overlay clip 2 as well. And clip 4 too. If I did a zoom to clip 4, I'd have to overlay all other clips, since they would be visible at near-fullsize. So I end up overlaying nearly all clips, and having to animate all overlays individually.

                   

                  @Jeff: sorry for the double-post, my question yesterday was a bit different, so I thought that would legitimize a new post.

                  • 6. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    So I end up overlaying nearly all clips, and having to animate all overlays individually.

                     

                    Correct.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                      cheeeeesus Level 1

                      Hard to believe one of the best video editing tools loses quality when scaling pre-composed/nested sequences. Why do we have the "Use Previews" checkbox, if it loses quality anyway?

                       

                      Thanks for your help

                      • 8. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                        Since you can't make the clips smaller and retain quality, you have to make the sequence bigger.  It'll take a bit of experimenting based on the size of your source video clips, but I'd start with a 4000x4000 pixel sequence and work from there.

                         

                        Then the only scaling to be done on the video clips will be at final export, and you can rely on CUDA MPE or Maximum Render Quality to make the best of whatever you've got.

                         

                        Jeff

                         

                        EDIT: Never mind.  That won't work either.  The best thing to do is animate a camera in 3D space in After Effects.  You will need a large comp size there to accommodate all the clips.

                         

                        EDIT (again): Actually, it may work if the clips in the video wall aren't scaled to radically different dimensions inside the nested sequence and you're willing to allow some clips to not fill the screen when they're zoomed in.  If you lay down some organic footage as a background, then you may get an acceptable effect.  If there is a huge difference in size between the clips in the video wall, then you will probably have to move to After Effects to pull off the shot. 

                         

                        You may also want to consider a simpler solution, and that's the one Harm gave earlier.  Overlay the wall with the clip to be zoomed.  Start with the overlaid clip at the same size and location as its in-wall counterpart, and just scale that clip until it fills the frame at 100% scale.  It's not as Hollywood as your original idea, but it's not bad, either.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                          shooternz Level 6

                          Motion controlling each clip in a PnP  is easy and quick and the obvious way to retain quality.

                           

                          Lazy editors ...sheeesh!

                          • 10. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                            cheeeeesus Level 1

                            Sorry what's a PnP?

                             

                            Thanks @all for your help. I'm currently preparing to motion-control all individual clips, and using 2D transformation matrices to calculate the positions of the individual clips after each zoom. And, checking out if FCP can do what I want.

                            • 11. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                              Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                              First of all this best done in After Effects but if it has to be Premiere Pro I would ask why scaling your clips down makes them look bad. That should not happen.

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                                cheeeeesus Level 1

                                That's exactly what I want to know! I'm pretty sure if Adobe takes the money to develop a software the size of Premiere Pro, it's no big deal to implement the "nesting sequences" feature such that the scaling mechanism effects are first calculated mathematically, and only applied to the clips at the end, so that scaling down a video and then scaling it up again should result in no quality loss.

                                 

                                To isolate the problem, I set up an empty project, put a clip into the sequence, scaled the video down (tried it with the Motion effect, and also with the Distort/Transform effect), then added a second sequence, added sequence 1 as a nested sequence in a track in sequence 2, scaled the nested track up, and rendered the second sequence with "Maximum Render Quality". Everything else was set to the default settings. This resulted in very bad video quality.

                                 

                                Any idea what could be wrong?

                                • 13. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                  Nesting a sequence is like pre-composing in After Effects: it forces a render order.  When you tell Pr or AE to nest/pre-compose, you're telling them to render whatever's in the nest or pre-comp, then use the result of that render in the parent sequence or composition. 

                                   

                                  Jeff

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                                    Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                    If you really must next the sequence, say perhaps because you are going to put a frame around the picture, then what you need to do is leave it at the original size. Nest it into the new sequence and reduce it in size using the motion effect. That way when you bring it back up to full size it will be coming from let's say 25 percent to 100 percent and not from 100 percent to 400 percent.

                                    • 15. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                                      cheeeeesus Level 1

                                      Hey guys, I finally managed to get it working in After Effects, using a 14400x11520 pre-composition, then scaling it down in a second master composition. Rendering takes 6 GB RAM and 4 seconds per frame on 8 CPU cores, but it works

                                       

                                      Still don't understand why the programmers of Premiere Pro actually scale down the videos, instead of inversely applying the transformations while rendering the master sequence.

                                       

                                      Thanks for your help!

                                      • 16. Re: Wall of parallel clips, then zooming in on one of them
                                        Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                        Glad to hear you got it working to your satisfaction in After Effects.

                                         

                                        Just to attempt to put a cap on this, I believe that the reason that Adobe makes it so that once you put a clip in a sequence and then nest the sequence, the nested sequence acts like a clip that has been exported and reimported, is that is exactly the function that they were trying to replace.

                                         

                                        I can see where that could be a problem for some situations, but I think it makes nested sequences a lot easier to understand and to use. The rendering order is not as obvious in Premiere Pro as it is in After Effects. Personally though, I think that the direction Adobe out to go is simply to dramatically improve their memory management and just have tabs across the top of the app. One for editing, one for compositing, one for audio, etc. Each one would look pretty much the same but be optimized for the task much like the workspaces are in Premiere Pro. But the compositing tab would actually be AFter Effects and the Audio tab would be Audition, etc.

                                         

                                        I wrote an email a few days ago asking Andrew Kramer to consider a new product offering. One that would basically trick Premiere Pro users into using After Effects for their titles by making it extremely easy. I believe that in lieu of a product from Adobe named "After Effects Elements", that slowly nudging editors toward compositing with After Effects in a painless way would be a challenging yet worthwhile effort. The more people who buy into the Creative Cloud concept like I have, the more who could be using After EFfects. Perhaps after that happens, we can get them also using Illustrator instead of just Photoshop!