10 Replies Latest reply on Nov 30, 2012 10:37 AM by CadenceDVE

    Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?

    CadenceDVE

      So, when I originally purchased my current motherboard, my upgrade path was from my i5-650, which is pretty slow, to an i7. I've been waiting for a while for the prices to drop on the i7-875, but they still remain at the $350 to $400 (US) level. I like the i7-875 because it's unlocked. I have a Noctura C12P cooler, so I was originally planning to purchase an unlocked i7 and overclock it quite a bit. Sadly my i5-650 does not have an unlocked multiplier. I knew that when I bought it but at the time I was expecting to be able to upgrade the processor within a year. I've not yet done so as before I was a very novist editor -- now I'm more at an intermediate level and my slow processor has really begun to bother me.

       

      However, now I'm thinking that it would be best to wait for the Ivy Bridge-E, which from what I've read so far, should be a full 8-core processor. Doing so will allow me to take advantage of quad-channel memory (my i5 only supports dual channel), a better CPU socket like the 2011, a lot larger memory cache on the CPU die itself, and of course the 8 cores which will be 4 times the physical cores I have now. I will also be able to upgrade my motherboard if I go with a new processor, which would be nice as my EVGA P55 LE limits me to only 16 gigs of memory, 4x4 gigs. When I built my rig two years ago, 16 gigs seemed like enough. Now I know I need 32 or perhaps 64, so I'd like a motherboard that offers 8 DIMM slots -- mine only has four.

       

      I will have to wait about a year or so, depending on when Intel finally releases Ivy Bridge-E, but I'm OK with that if it means a significant improvement in my render times. Now that I'm loading up individual clips with lots of effects, color correction, etc... I'm seeing much more red in my timeline, and I'm getting tired of waiting for previews to render so I can get back to work.

       

      Any thoughts on the Ivy Bridge-E and its release date, etc...? All I can find is that it's been pushed back to the third quarter of 2013, which is almost a year away but if the new 22nm chip format is worth the wait, I will be willing to wait rather than taking an intermediate step and then having to upgrade again in less than a year...

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I just Googled the 875, and Newegg shows that as a discontinued, out of stock item... Amazon has it for $430, from a partner vendor, not directly from Amazon

           

          If it was me... I would wait and upgrade to the socket 2011 motherboard (but, that is just my opinion)

          • 2. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
            frogo369 Level 1

            The upgrade should be based on what makes most sense relative to your work loads. As of right now you can already purchase a Socket 2011 motherboard as it has drop in support for 8 Core CPUs ( they are already avaiblible under Intel's Xeon line which is supported on boards like the P9X79 WS which run the consumer CPUs as well ( Sandy Bridge E ). The diffucult situation youa re in is you pushcaeed a platform that had a quick turn around socket wise so upgrade path became limited as well as the cost of the CPU for the platform.

             

            At least with Socket 2011 that is not goin anywhere anytime soon. In the end you have to make the call whether to upgrade your board and CPU currently to something that will offer significant performance increase like a X79 board with even the quad core part ( 3820 ) or wait to get a native 8 core part which is already avaiblible with the Xeon skus. Keep in mind though there is a considerble cost delta in adopting a 8 Core cpu on the Intel side.

             

            Hope this helps. Enjoy the rest of your day!

            • 3. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              The Xeon E5-2987 or 2990 are octo cores with 20 MB L3 cache, BUT they are locked. They can't be overclocked. The i7-3930K and 3960X are hexa cores with 12 or 15 MB L3 cache and they are unlocked, so they can be overclocked easily. In the first quarter the i7-3970X will come out, but is still a hexa core with 15 MB L3 cache and is also unlocked. At stock speed it is slightly faster than the 3960X.

               

              Intel has not yet revealed plans for an Ivy Bridge-E CPU and chances of an i7 octo core at this moment with the full complement of 20 MB L3 cache are very slim because of the TDP limitation Intel adheres to.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
                CadenceDVE Level 1

                Awesome, thank you for the info Frogo369. I agree about the socket 1156 -- I hope that socket 2011 will be around for a while, it's hard when the sockets change so frequently. Perhaps the best route would be to go to a quad core CPU on a socket 2011, then to wait for a 8 core chip in the future... I'll have to do some more research to get an idea where Intel is heading. If they are at 22nm now, perhaps they can go smaller, but I'm wondering when quantum tunneling will start to be a problem -- surely there must be some sort of physical limit on how small the circuits can be before electrons start tunneling from one circuit to the next. But, I'm no physicist, so I really don't know for sure... thanks for your help!

                • 5. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
                  CadenceDVE Level 1

                  Hey Harm -- thanks for your input! I realize that Intel is concerned about exceeding a TDP of 150 watts, and I see from my research that there are not a lot of air coolers that can dissipate that much thermal energy quickly enough. It's a bit frustrating from a consumer stand point -- I don't want to be forced to pay a premium price for a CPU that's intended to be used in a server just to get the level of performance I'd like to have. Perhaps if Intel is able to shrink their circuits down below 22nm, that will allow for an 8 core chip that stays around a 150 watt TDP or so. I just don't want to make the intermediate jump to 6 cores, I'd rather go straight to 8 cores and match that to at least 32 gigs of RAM. But, I do remember and did indeed live through the days of the original 286 and 386 processors, so really I can't complain. It's like asking for a race car and then complaining that it's not fast enough. After all, my first computer (an Amiga 1000) didn't even have a hard drive and if I recall correctly, it had half a megabyte of RAM. So really, the fact that I can edit full HD video on my rig is really amazing and something to be appreciated and enjoyed.

                   

                  I'll go do some more research about Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge... perhaps 6 cores is the best choice for now. Thanks again -- I appreciate the help very much.

                  • 6. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
                    frogo369 Level 1

                    Harm does provide some good points but there is alot of flexibility you have right now and TDP is actually not to much of an issue and is really dependent on what you are doing.

                     

                    1. Xeons in the 1500 series actually can support strap changes so do they do support limited OC but strap support is not always guarranted ( approx around 15% will support a 125 strap change ). As such overall what Harm noted is Xeon not supporting overclocking is correct. Keep in mind this is only relevant if you plan to OC.

                     

                    2. Not all 8 core Xeons are such high TDP. If you are continually do a work load that benefits from multi thread consider a lower TDP part.

                     

                    The E5-2650 is only 95TDP and would be awesome a building block on a ATX board like the Z9NA or Z9PA ( both ATX and supporting Dual CPUs ). These CPU is 8core 16 threads with 20MB of cache.

                     

                    3. Even if you consider a part with a higher TDP you can easily go with a baisc cooler like the one noted below and still be ok.

                     

                    Dynatron - R17 this hanldes up to 160 TDP. Even if you considered a 3930K or 3960/3970X and overclocked it to a moderate level like 4.2 and 4.3GHz this would handle it.

                    http://www.dynatron-corp.com/en/product_detail_1.aspx?cv=&id=239&in=0

                     

                    If you went more enthuiast there are intergrated water cooling options like a Corsair H60 or H80. If you heavily overclock and will continually load all cores depending on the voltages defined once you approach 180 to 200 watts this can be much more diffucult to ensure consistent cooling at reasonable temps ( while also keeping reasonable noise levels ).

                     

                    4. For clarification currently Sandy Bridge E is based on 32nm while Ivy Bridge is based on 22nm. While I can not reveal specifics I can not the 2011 platform is not going anywhere anytime soon.

                     

                    If you want superior cooling there are an extensive number of options that will ensure sufficient cooling is in place. The bigger point will actually be if you have heavy consistent loading then you want a chassis which will help to provide airflow to the VRM assembly as the VRM can heat up under load especially if you heavily stressing the cores for extended periods.

                     

                    Hope this provides a little more insight best of luck in the decision making process if you have any other questions let me know. Enjoy the rest of your day!

                    • 7. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
                      RjL190365 Level 4

                      frogo369 wrote:

                       

                      Harm does provide some good points but there is alot of flexibility you have right now and TDP is actually not to much of an issue and is really dependent on what you are doing.

                       

                      1. Xeons in the 1500 series actually can support strap changes so do they do support limited OC but strap support is not always guarranted ( approx around 15% will support a 125 strap change ). As such overall what Harm noted is Xeon not supporting overclocking is correct. Keep in mind this is only relevant if you plan to OC.

                       

                      2. Not all 8 core Xeons are such high TDP. If you are continually do a work load that benefits from multi thread consider a lower TDP part.

                       

                      The E5-2650 is only 95TDP and would be awesome a building block on a ATX board like the Z9NA or Z9PA ( both ATX and supporting Dual CPUs ). These CPU is 8core 16 threads with 20MB of cache.

                       

                      3. Even if you consider a part with a higher TDP you can easily go with a baisc cooler like the one noted below and still be ok.

                       

                      Dynatron - R17 this hanldes up to 160 TDP. Even if you considered a 3930K or 3960/3970X and overclocked it to a moderate level like 4.2 and 4.3GHz this would handle it.

                      http://www.dynatron-corp.com/en/product_detail_1.aspx?cv=&id=239&in=0

                       

                      If you went more enthuiast there are intergrated water cooling options like a Corsair H60 or H80. If you heavily overclock and will continually load all cores depending on the voltages defined once you approach 180 to 200 watts this can be much more diffucult to ensure consistent cooling at reasonable temps ( while also keeping reasonable noise levels ).

                       

                      4. For clarification currently Sandy Bridge E is based on 32nm while Ivy Bridge is based on 22nm. While I can not reveal specifics I can not the 2011 platform is not going anywhere anytime soon.

                       

                      If you want superior cooling there are an extensive number of options that will ensure sufficient cooling is in place. The bigger point will actually be if you have heavy consistent loading then you want a chassis which will help to provide airflow to the VRM assembly as the VRM can heat up under load especially if you heavily stressing the cores for extended periods.

                       

                      Hope this provides a little more insight best of luck in the decision making process if you have any other questions let me know. Enjoy the rest of your day!

                      The biggest flaw with the 95W TDP 8-core Xeons is that they (for the most part) run at extremely slow clock speeds (say, 2.1GHz). All of the 8-core Xeons that run at anywhere near 3.2GHz have extremely high 150W TDPs. Those facts alone make some 8-core systems perform significantly slower in Premiere Pro than some quad-core or hex-core CPU based PCs.

                      • 8. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
                        CadenceDVE Level 1

                        Thank you again frogo -- excellent information. It's looking like I need to just wait until the 22nm chips come out, but I'm glad to hear that LGA 2011 might be around for a bit. I have socket shock from all the changes in the last two years . I'm cooling on air for now, but I think that the Corsair integrated water cooler might work well for me in the future. It seems inevitable that I will have to move to a water cooled system, if I want to OC an 8 core chip, if it's drawing in excess of 200 watts.

                         

                        I do indeed want to OC to 4-4.5 ghz or more, and while I like the Noctua C12P I'm using now, it's not going to cut it when I move up to 8 cores. I read about the strap changes -- what an interesting way to OC a chip! I don't think the Xeon line is right for me -- I'd much rather stick with a chip I can tune, something with more control, something with an unlocked multiplier rather than the strap change that Intel has come out with recently. I see that there is Haswell coming out after Ivy Bridge-E, still based on the 22nm platform -- perhaps all 8 cores of that chip will be active. I'm thinking it might be best, for the next 6-12 months or so, for me to replace my i5 with an i7-875 so I can OC that to 4 ghz, perhaps 4.2 or so, and then wait for more information from Intel about what's going on with Ivy Bridge-E and Haswell. The 875 is the best chip I can get for my P55 based motherboard and it'll be better  than my current CPU. If I take that intermediate step, the cost involved is minor and the performace gain is worth the hassle of seating a new chip and reinstalling my OS.

                         

                        I understand Intel wants to stick to the TDP range of 130, now updated to around 150 watts per an artice I read the other day, but I really want to have the flexibility to OC to whatever speed is stable for my particular system. If I have to go to water cooling, I will do so but I'd rather stick to air for now. Thank you for the link to the Dynatron site -- that's not a company I've heard of before, but I will be sure to check out their products.

                        • 9. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
                          RjL190365 Level 4

                          CadenceDVE wrote:

                           

                          I see that there is Haswell coming out after Ivy Bridge-E, still based on the 22nm platform -- perhaps all 8 cores of that chip will be active. I'm thinking it might be best, for the next 6-12 months or so, for me to replace my i5 with an i7-875 so I can OC that to 4 ghz, perhaps 4.2 or so, and then wait for more information from Intel about what's going on with Ivy Bridge-E and Haswell. The 875 is the best chip I can get for my P55 based motherboard and it'll be better  than my current CPU. If I take that intermediate step, the cost involved is minor and the performace gain is worth the hassle of seating a new chip and reinstalling my OS.

                          Actually, there might not be a Haswell derivative for the high-end platform. The initial release of Haswell will replace current LGA 1155 (Ivy Bridge) mainstream platforms, and will use a completely incompatible socket (LGA 1150). As such, at least initially, Haswell will be limited to only 16 available PCI-e lanes.

                           

                          As for the i7-875K, don't waste your money on it (at least at its exhorbitant asking retail price of $450-ish). Here's the problem: You can buy a new i7-3770K plus a new motherboard for the same price as (or slightly more than) the i7-875K by itself. That alone makes the 875K a total rip-off at its current asking price.

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Upgrade i5-650 to i7-875 or wait for Ivy Bridge-E to be released?
                            CadenceDVE Level 1

                            Hum... good info here, thank you. I agree about i7-3770K -- it looks like an excellent chip. I can get an 875K on eBay for $229. It's a new chip, OEM from a tray of 21. For that price, I though it would be a good intermediate upgrade. I liked that route better as it does not involve changing out my motherboard, but I'm going to have to look at the total OC potential of the 875K versus the 3770K -- if the 3770K has more OC headroom and better performance versus the 875K, then I may need to just go ahead and get a new motherboard, rather than wasting money getting the 875K and then only using it for 6 months or less.

                             

                            Thanks again for all the advice -- it makes it much easier to make a decision!