30 Replies Latest reply: Nov 29, 2012 8:17 PM by riskypotato RSS

    Losing cache between differing operating systems?

    riskypotato Community Member

      When I transfer files from my laptop to an external drive, there is no problem with the folders on the ext. drive keeping their cache so long as I work on them from the laptop. BUT, when I connect the same drive to my desktop, I can watch my labels etc. disappear as Bridge builds the thumbnails. The desktop is an iMac 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7, running OSX 10.7.5, while the laptop is 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, at 10.6.8. Perhaps the differing OS is the problem? In the past I have almost always uploaded photos from camera to the external drive while traveling with the laptop and there has been no problem going from drive to desktop. In this case however I uploaded from camera directly to laptop.

      I'm running Bridge CS5.1, version 4.1.0.54, I have checked "Automatically Export Cache to Folders When Possible" on both computers. Also "Keep 100% Previews in Cache" is not checked on both. Thanks in advance for any help.

        • 1. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
          Omke Oudeman Community Member

          In the past I have almost always uploaded photos from camera to the external drive while traveling with the laptop and there has been no problem going from drive to desktop. In this case however I uploaded from camera directly to laptop.

           

          That is a difficult problem, don't think different OS should matter as both 10.6.8 and 10.7.5 use 64 bit. Also presuming you do use the same Bridge version on both systems. It might be some settings of both preferences are different?

           

          Maybe you use raw files and the rating and labeling is usually saved as a separate xmp file (that is by default a hidden file in Bridge). As long as you use Bridge to move the files to a new location those XMP files will travel automatically along. If you use Finder you should be certain the files (same name as Raw file but with extension .xmp) are also copied.

           

          If for instance you have set the Camera Raw preferences for your lap top to save the xmp to the central database instead of the side car XMP files there might be your problem because the iMac has no sidecar XMP files to look at or read from and can't read the central database of your laptop.

           

          Just a thought.

          • 2. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
            riskypotato Community Member

            Omke, thanks for your help. I went through all prefs and made them identical between the two computers. (I thought you had hit on the problem because my Camera Raw prefs were indeed sending the data to different places for each computer. I fixed that.) Then I adjusted 1 RAW file in ACR as a test and placed it into its own folder. Unfortunately the same results obtained. And yes, same version of Bridge in each computer. I was using Carbon Copy Cloner to move the files but I also copied them from Bridge, with same results. So, from here, I suppose I am looking at a Bridge re-install?

            • 3. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
              Curt Y Community Member

              A re-install rarely solves the problem.  Hold off for now.

               

              When you say you see labels, etc. dissapearing, does this mean they are gone, or white labels?  What about keywords?  What extension?  Much is written to the file especially in jpg files.

               

              Is this a View setting, or extra metadata lines in cache preferences?

              • 4. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                riskypotato Community Member

                Thanks for your help, Curt. Everything disappears - labels, keywords, all work I did on these files while I was traveling. The labels don't turn to white, they totally disappear as the 4 lines of thumbnail metadata (as chosen in Bridge Prefs) appear. When I open the file in Camera Raw on the desktop, everything is back to default as if I had never worked on it. I work in VIEW>AS THUMBNAILS. Am strictly working with RAW files, no JPEGs. By the way, when I wrote in first post "ext. drive" it was shorthand for "external drive",  not "extension".

                • 5. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                  riskypotato Community Member

                  Guess I should also say these are .CR2 RAW files from Canon 5D.

                  • 6. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                    Omke Oudeman Community Member

                    my Camera Raw prefs were indeed sending the data to different places for each computer. I fixed that.)

                     

                     

                    If this means that in the General tab of your Camera Raw preferences it says both to write data to sidecar XMP then this solution did not work.

                     

                    Personally I have no use for the setting to write cache to folders when possible, mainly due to a long standing bug that provides me to do so but if it worked I also would not bother to do so.

                     

                    In my experience every new version of Bridge uses a new type of cache and therefor those previously written folders are useless after an upgrade. Also they take a lot space and pointing Bridge to it first need to read that info.

                     

                    I stick with a central cache file but also do dump it every now and then to have a fresh new start.

                     

                    Just did so a few days ago because my central cache file had already been growing to the respectable size of 80 GB. I don't rely on cache for archive purposes and use DNG that has written al data in the file itself instead of using a sidecar XMP file.

                     

                    But as said, that is my personal workflow

                     

                     

                    What happens if you plug the disk again in the lap top? is the info for labels still there or also gone?

                     

                    Did you check the permissions for the external drive on both computers, do you have read and write permission?

                     

                    Like Curt already stated, re install rarely solves the problem unless you also reset or delete existing preferences hidden in you library

                    • 7. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                      riskypotato Community Member

                      Omke,

                      Still can't get it to work. I unchecked "Automatically Export Cache to Folders" on each computer. Then purged cache on each. Then made sure permissions allowed Read and Write priveleges, "Ignore Ownership on this volume" checked on both. Changed Camera Raw Prefs to save image settings in sidecar XMP files, both computers. When I plug the disk back into the laptop again, all the metadata appears again, along wth the labels and all changes that I made to the images in Camera Raw. The strange thing is that I color-labeled the test folder and that color label showed up fine on the desktop; but all files in the folder did not keep their labels or metadata. However, the files are keeping their names, which I had changed on the laptop to my own naming system. Would this suggest that the desktop is not finding the cache? The cache file is stored in the same place on each computer, which is "Users/myname/Library/Caches/Adobe/Bridge CS5.1/Cache/. I do not have the same Username on both computers, but as I said, it was working until this problem occurred. Maybe you're on to something regarding permissions. They give me a fit, there must be some way that I don't have to keep screwing around with them every time I connect external drives, I want universal access to all my drives. But perhaps I'm getting off-topic here.

                      • 8. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                        Omke Oudeman Community Member

                        Maybe you're on to something regarding permissions.

                         

                         

                        Did you also try Apple Disk utility and run Check and repair permissions on your iMac?

                         

                        Since rating and labeling is stored in the XMP it should be read by the second computer without problems I would think, especially since you use the same Bridge Version.

                         

                        There is the matter of labels turning in to white when you have custom label names or other language versions installed but that does not seem the case here.

                         

                        Can you try also to convert one file to DNG or save as a PSD and see if those rating and labels are respected on both systems?

                         

                        The Cache files you have purged for Bridge are used for thumbnails and HQ previews to show correctly (and show Raw files according to ACR settings) they have nothing to do with rating and labeling, those info is either stored in a central Data base ( not in your case) or written to the XMP data in a file itself or as a sidecar XMP.

                         

                        It seems the sidecar XMP files are not read correctly in your iMac and also are not overwritten by your iMac because the info is still there in the laptop. Double check on the modification date of xmp files.

                         

                        But to be sure, first back up already rated and labeled files so you will be sure that work won't get lost.

                        • 9. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                          Curt Y Community Member

                          riskypotato wrote:

                           

                          Omke,

                          Still can't get it to work. I unchecked "Automatically Export Cache to Folders" on each computer. Then purged cache on each.

                          If you used purge cache in preferences you only purge the central cache.  To purge the cache you sent to folders you have to select each folder and use Tools/cache/purge cache for xxx folder.

                          • 10. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                            Curt Y Community Member

                            Have you turned on Show Hidden Files in View (XMP hidden file)?  If so check each computer to see the the files indeed are there.  Looks like the laptop is not moving the XMP file and therefore does not see the metadata.  Purge the folder cache as per my note above in case there is a conflict of information.

                            • 11. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                              riskypotato Community Member

                              Curt and Omke,

                              Many thanks for your suggestions. Okay, I repaired disk permissions on both computers. Purged cache within the folders. No change. I checked VIEW>SHOW HIDDEN FILES, and no xml files show up on either computer. I believe they should be in the same folder as the RAW files? Lastly, I uploaded a few new images to laptop  and converted them to .dng files, then chose one of them and did some adjustments on it, labeled it and lo and behold, it kept its label and adjustments when viewed on the desktop. So it appears that you are right, Curt, that the laptop is not "moving the xmp file". The problem also happens though when I save image settings in the camera raw database. If I do a Spotlight search the .xmp files are nowhere to be found.

                              • 12. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                Omke Oudeman Community Member

                                The problem also happens though when I save image settings in the camera raw database

                                 

                                 

                                Can you provide a screenshot of your camera raw preference settings window so we can see what you have set?

                                • 13. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                  riskypotato Community Member

                                  ACR.jpg

                                  Omke,

                                  Identical on both computers except my username is different.Thanks.

                                  • 14. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                    Curt Y Community Member

                                    riskypotato wrote:

                                     

                                    I checked VIEW>SHOW HIDDEN FILES, and no xml files show up on either computer. I believe they should be in the same folder as the RAW files?

                                    The XMP file should have the same name as the RAW file and therefore be physically next to it.

                                     

                                    THe fact that you do not see an XMP file on either computer is troubling.  What are happening to the edits is a question you need to explore.  The edited file should have an XMP as the file should be created when you edit a RAW file.  Try this with exagerated edits (you  can delete them .in edit/develop settings).  Not sure if labels are written to file or XMP. 

                                     

                                    With a DNG all edits are written to the file.

                                    • 15. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                      riskypotato Community Member

                                      When I upload from card directly to the desktop, the xmp files are there right next to the RAW file, and everything is fine. It's the laptop that fails to produce xmp files, no matter how exaggerated the edits are.

                                      • 16. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                        Curt Y Community Member

                                        Unclear about upload from card.  Is this the images from the camera card?  If so there will be no XMP files as they are created only with an edit.

                                         

                                        If the laptop fails to produce an xmp file then reset the preferences on it.  Start Bridge and hold down Option key.  Choose all 3 options.

                                        • 17. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                          riskypotato Community Member

                                          Ahhhh, sorry. Right you are, I am in the habit of applyng a metadata (copyright) template during the upload from camera card. Let me try that prefs reset and get back to you.

                                          • 18. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                            riskypotato Community Member

                                            Reset prefs. Trashed all but default workspaces. Still no xmp files.

                                            • 19. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                              Curt Y Community Member

                                              Perhaps you need to start at ground zero.  Upload a raw from card reader with no additions.  Upload to both laptop and desktop change name to lap and desk so you know where they came from.  Edit both images and see if xmp file is generated on both computers.  If so transfer from laptop to desktop and vice versa.  Do the transfer with Bridge.  Report back.

                                              • 20. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                Curt Y Community Member

                                                Have you checked ACR in both computers to see if they are same version?  Perhaps the ACR in laptop is not able to read the RAW?

                                                • 21. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                  riskypotato Community Member

                                                  ACR is 6.7.0.339 on both

                                                  • 22. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                    Curt Y Community Member

                                                    But the question remains, can the laptop edit a raw image properly?  Perhaps there is an error in the ACR install.

                                                    • 23. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                      riskypotato Community Member

                                                      Omke,

                                                      Great idea. Laptop reads the RAWs made from desktop. And... OILA, desktop reads the new RAWs made from files newly uploaded and transfered from laptop. Whether this state of affairs will hold remains to be seen, as Bridge has been acting weird on the laptop for about a year, by that I mean it is prone to screw up custom workspaces. Is there any way to generate xml files for the RAWs that I worked on while i was traveling? Perhaps tweak them a tiny bit, then untweak them? I just tried that, it works. Does it matter that the xml files on laptop say "Text" on them, while those on the iMac (newer OS)  say "MXI" on them and have a picture of a 3D cube? Different file type associations - does this matter? Thanks for all your help, Omke and Curt, we appear to be on the road to recovery.

                                                      • 24. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                        riskypotato Community Member

                                                        Also I am wondering, is copying files from Bridge a safe way to transfer files between drives? As I said, I've been using Carbon Copy Cloner. Before that I was using Retrospect. Thanks again for all your helps.

                                                        • 25. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                          Curt Y Community Member

                                                          Something to consider as you are on CS5.  If you upgrade when CS7 is announced you will have to pay full price for it.  They have changed the upgrade policy so to qualify you have to the previous version rather than 3 versions back.  So if planning on CS7 you might as well upgrade now and enjoy it longer.  Make sure your computer is up for it as it needs 8 gig of ram and good video card to run well.

                                                          • 26. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                            riskypotato Community Member

                                                            Good point Curt. I have recently bought the CS6 upgrade along with Lightoom 4. Have been watching LR4 tuts in preparation. Yest to install CS6. Guess I won't be using Bridge as much after I get up to speed with LR.

                                                            • 27. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                              Omke Oudeman Community Member

                                                              Does it matter that the xml files on laptop say "Text" on them, while those on the iMac (newer OS)  say "MXI" on them and have a picture of a 3D cube?

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              I'm afraid that you have lost me now.

                                                               

                                                              xml files are eXtensible Markup Language files and used by applications such as Adobe Dreamweaver. Opening some xml files start the Abdobe Extension manager on my system.

                                                               

                                                              XMi is not clear to me, tried a bit of Google but this also seems to do with extensions, it's all info far above my knowledge.

                                                               

                                                              Your ACR Settings seem correctly and should produce XMP files, with (as Curt already pointed out) the same name as the file it contains metadata from.

                                                               

                                                              It is a bit of a mystery to me why your laptop does not produce these files when having applied changes in ACR.

                                                               

                                                              I also don't understand your use of carbon copy for copying the files. If you open the folder panel in Bridge and have your external disk attached it will show in the folder panel. Drag and drop the files from content window to new location of external disk.

                                                               

                                                              Moving files to another disk automatically starts copying, leaving the originals at it's location. If you want to copy to other location at same disk drag and drop while holding down option key and that makes the file to copy instead of move.

                                                              • 28. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                                riskypotato Community Member

                                                                Omke you'll have to forgive me, guess I've been looking at this problem for too long. The XML files have nothing to do with it, I got them mixed up with XMP. The good news is that the laptop appears to be functioning properly now, as far as making XMP sidecar files when I edit  files in Camera Raw.

                                                                So what you are telling me is that all these copying and backup programs are a waste? That it's perfectly fine and safe to drag and drop? I thought this method was prone to errors, Carbon Copy Cloner and Retrospect make the copy and then compare the copy to the original. Also, let's say that I work on a few files in a folder; then if I use CCC to copy to another drive, it will only update the files that have changed.

                                                                What I was referring to when i mentioned MXI was the way the sidecar files look different between laptop and desktop. I guess that's just the OS. Here they are for comparison.

                                                                deskt.jpglapt.jpg

                                                                Thanks again for all your help.

                                                                • 29. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                                  Omke Oudeman Community Member

                                                                  So what you are telling me is that all these copying and backup programs are a waste? That it's perfectly fine and safe to drag and drop? I thought this method was prone to errors, Carbon Copy Cloner and Retrospect make the copy and then compare the copy to the original. Also, let's say that I work on a few files in a folder; then if I use CCC to copy to another drive, it will only update the files that have changed.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Yes and no.

                                                                   

                                                                  Carbon copy cloner mostly is used to copy the entire OS to another disk, personally I like to install apps myself again but always have a back up of system and user library etc to being able to refer to for some forgotten settings or presets (mail)

                                                                   

                                                                  It might be a PITA but at least you start with a fresh system on a new disk instead of copying also all update and other bad things you gathered in the route before the new disk.

                                                                   

                                                                  But Back up is certainly priority nr 1!!

                                                                   

                                                                  When you use 2 machines to work on the same project and the connection is an external disk you have to develop a good strategy. Bridge is not designed to run on a server (think about the fact you have 2 cache libraries, 1 for each machine).

                                                                   

                                                                  If you start working on a file on your laptop and want to be able to continue on your desktop with the external disk you might consider to open and save the files on this external disk, depending on the need for speed this might work for you. Bridge should read the new settings when you connect the disk to the other machine (only using same Bridge CS version, different versions use different cache systems).

                                                                   

                                                                  You would not need to compare the changes on both computers in this way but you still need a back up of the files on the external disk so by all means use a back up application that compares changed files (I use Synchronize Pro for this job).

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  But if you have the files on each system and you still can't connect both machines to each other (ethernet preferred) then an external disk is your solution.

                                                                   

                                                                  You can choose to back up the lot and let the application decide what files need to copied due to changes or you can set Bridge sort order to date modified and this will sort the files you have modified (in prefs you can set some lines showing certain info, I have date created and date modified to make it easier to see). just grab the modified files and drag and drop to disk to replace them.

                                                                   

                                                                  That said, if you have Raw with XMP your Back Up app probably only replaces the XMP files and that is a bit quicker then replacing the Raw file also.

                                                                   

                                                                  So many users, so many needs, so many workflows

                                                                   

                                                                  And good to hear you are back in business with XMP on your Laptop!

                                                                  • 30. Re: Losing cache between differing operating systems?
                                                                    riskypotato Community Member

                                                                    Thanks for the info, Omke, much appreciate!