14 Replies Latest reply on Dec 31, 2012 6:00 AM by AnonimTotal

    Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)

    AnonimTotal

      I am new here, greetings to all and especially Harm Millaard as I often find his recommendations/opinions to be just great
      thanks in advance for any help and your time!

       

      I am building PC exclusively to Adobe premiere and the rest of all great stuff for video edtiting, and I am rather on strict budget.

      PSU: seasonic x-660 (good stuff seems to me)
      RAM: aiming at 32GB
      CPU COOLER: considering noctua NH-D14 or polish SilentiumPC Fortis HE1225 (which is more than a half cheaper)

      CPU: 2500K / 2700K (where I live the costs of them -as of today- are as follows):

      2500K: 264,16 USD

      2700K: 345,92 USD

       

      (1) How much is estimated CPU Hyperthreading boost I get in smooth "editing and playback" in adobe premiere cs5.5/cs6?
      Does this boost grows bigger when overclocking? I am wondering should I buy 2700K or just stick to 2500K and spent money I save for next CPU upgrade in few years

       

       

      (2) For this
      CPU 2500K/2700K
      GPU gtx 470 or better,

      Should I buy 3 separate SSD? or only 2SSD and for 3rd drive use onboard raid 2xHDD(7200rpm?)? What roughly estimated sizes they C/D/E drives should be? I will try to edit only 1 project at a time (h.264 files between 100-200GB. If I use magic lantern it will grow bigger (i suppose but don't know by how much). If it gives boost for efficient Premiere EDITING and PLAYBACK, I can buy 3 SSD's. If one of the ssd's will only speed up render, i could buy cheaper HDD.

      (*I am afraid I have no spare funds to buy appropriate RAID controller)

      What are the best choices (regarding my PC build) for SSD or maybe 2HDD ONBOARD raid?


      Quoting from http://ppbm6.com/Planning.html :

      • [Harm's C: drive suggestion]: OS & programs: 4 x SSD in Raid10. One could always start with a single SSD.
        [My C: drive idea]: 1xSSD 32GB

       

      • [Harm's D: drive suggestion]: Pagefile, media cache, renders: 6 x HDD in Raid0 using 2 internal ports plus the 4 external ports.
        [My D: drive idea]: is there any rough estimate I can use to determine what size it would take?

       

      • [Harm's E: drive suggestion]: Media, exports and all other stuff: 22 x HDD in Raid30, including 2 hot-spares. 2 x (10 R3 + 1 HS).
        [My E: drive idea]: h.264 files between 100-200GB. If I use magic lantern it will grow bigger (i suppose but don't know by how much). How much should I add for exports and "all other stuff". Should I buy 580GB SSD or use 2xHDD onboard ram?

       

       

       

      (3) Silly question, but what are the estimated chances that by buying used Gtx470 or refurbished one, I will get one after being overclocked or used a lot and run into problems? My CPU is rather low-end. What are your guesses I will be better buying.

      I can buy either:

      179,25 USD: gtx 470 used (no warranty at all), or just now i have offer of brand new

      377,37 USD: gtx 580 with 2 year warranty (it runs cooler maybe bit faster than reference gtx 580:
      ASUS GeForce GTX 580 DirectCUII - 1536 MB GDDR5 - PCI-Express 2.0 (ENGTX580 DCII/2DIS/1536MD5

      * (I do not consider gtx 6xx series as it cost much more than gtx 470/480/570/580/560ti and they have your good opinions)

        • 1. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          First of all, update that link you quoted to Intro Part 1 and the following pages. The system is ready now and I'll finish up the tuning pages shortly.

           

          The topic header suggests 'Low budget' but the description you gave does not match that. With all those SSD's you end up with high budget and/or low storage capacity.

           

          OK, let's start with the CPU. The HT capability of the 2700K is a significant advantage, especially with AVCHD and DSLR material. IMO it is worth the extra cost. Then the video card. I would suggest you look at the GTX 660 Ti or 670 and forget about a used 470 or even the 580. The 660 Ti/670 has the capability to steer up to 4 monitors, uses less energy and runs cooler. The GTX 580 may be too much for the Seasonic PSU and force you to opt for a bigger one. Performance wise there is not much difference between the video cards and the HT of the 2700K will have a bigger performance impact.

           

          You did not mention which motherboard you intend to use, so I don't know about the number of SATA connectors on the board and how many of them are 6G on what controllers, Intel or Marvell. Those data can seriously limit your choices, as it did in my case. I know I said 4 SSD's in raid10, but the lack of ports made that impossible. Of course my build was not exactly a 'low budget' build, but that is what you start out with, so I would suggest a different disk setup in light of the budget considerations.

           

          C: 256 GB SSD for OS & programs & static pagefile on a SATA 6G port, for instance Corsair Performance Pro, Corsair Neutron Pro, Kingston Hyper X, Plextor M5 Pro or Samsung 840.

           

          D: Two 1 TB (or bigger) HDD's in raid0 for media and projects, preferably on SATA 6G ports, for instance WD Caviar Black, Seagate Barracuda 7200.14, Seagate Constellation ES(5) or HGST 7K3000.

           

          E: Two 1 TB (or bigger) HDD's in raid0 for media cache and exports, preferably on SATA 6G ports if any are left.

           

          F: Large backup drive on SATA 3G port, for instance HGST 7K3000 Ultrastar.

          • 2. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
            AnonimTotal Level 1

            Already I have:
            seasonic x-660 (It is quite capable PSU, 12V 52A)

             

            Next week I buy:
            CPU: 2700K
            GPU: 560ti (448 cores, 320bit version) msi, NON-twinfroz version

            Bus InterfacePCI Express 2.0 x16
            Output Interface2 x DVI-I
            1 x Mini HDMI

            Expansion / Connectivity

            Compatible Slots1 x PCI Express x16
            WidthDual Slot

            GPU Specification

            Core Clock732 MHz Core Clock
            Shader Clock1464 MHz Core Clock
            CUDA Cores448

            Memory Specification

            Memory Type320 bit GDDR5
            Memory Size1280 MB
            Memory Effective Size3800 Mhz

            Display Specification

            Multi-Monitor SupportUp to 2 displays
            Max Digital Resolution2560x1600
            Max Analogue Resolution2048x1536

            Thermal Specification

            Max GPU Temp97C
            Maximum Power210W
            Minimum PSU Requirement550W
            Required Power Connectors2 x 6-pin

             

            MOBO: Asus P8P67 (non pro, non deluxe)
            http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8P67/#

             

            RAM: 4x8GB (32GB total) - made for x79 chipset but should work
            1) RazorZ 1600mhz cl0 (i think this one http://gskill.com/products.php?index=432 )

            2) or a bit more expensive Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 32GB (4x8GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL10

             

            HDDS:

            I would like to buy 3 (max 4) HDD 7200 drives. I was considering Spinpoints F3 / Caviar blacks.
            Either 3 separate HDD's, or 1 HDD (maybe old one) for system and 3


            Strangely I found benchmark saying Spinpoint F3 is slower than WD caviar black. I wanted to compare caviar black models (and prices) but read these are not great for RAID, "source": http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=290321.

             

            I have about max 400$ for drives, maybe some more, and I plan to sacrifice this PC only to adobe suite so should I go with 3 disk config like Harm proposed in Generic Guideline for Disk Setup? or buy 4 and use 1 for system and other 3 for RAID? is this mobo OK for raid0, and does it slows anything down (like cpu)? which HDD drives and keep them separate or raid? Thanks and have a nice day!

            • 4. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
              RjL190365 Level 4

              I wouldn't get some of the components in that build list these days: The GPU and motherboard are both old-generation parts, obsolesced by the new GTX 660 series GPUs and the Z77 chipset. The i7-2700K is OK, but is priced too close to that of an i7-3770K for its own good.

              • 5. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                AnonimTotal Level 1

                QUOTE: "The GPU and motherboard are both old-generation parts, obsolesced by the new GTX 660 series GPUs and the Z77 chipset. The i7-2700K is OK, but is priced too close to that of an i7-3770K for its own good."


                yes, they are, but they come cheaper. I buy Asus P8P69 for 100$ with 1year warranty - and I read it has got good 'power section' as in deluxe or pro models, and also in asrock extreme3. I will not find mobo with good OC capabilities in this price range (p69 is older, might be found cheaper).

                 

                2700K is also cheaper than 3770K and 2600K where I live. The 3770K runs cooler at stock clock, but 2700K will not be running hotter than 3770K when overclocked. I assume the clock-to-clock speed of 3770K to 2700K is very slightly in favour of 3770K, but I also suppose it is nothing to worry about.

                 

                (1) However, is there efficiency (speed) difference between P69(1155) and Z77(1155) chipset mobos?
                I suppose only thing is capabilities, with P69 i get NO gpu overclock, NO integrated graphics, and that is OK to me.

                (*I saw some 'benchmark' where x79(2011socket) chipset was faster in premiere than z77(1155). )

                • 6. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                  RjL190365 Level 4

                  AnonimTotal wrote:


                  yes, they are, but they come cheaper. I buy Asus P8P69 for 100$ with 1year warranty - and I read it has got good 'power section' as in deluxe or pro models, and also in asrock extreme3. I will not find mobo with good OC capabilities in this price range (p69 is older, might be found cheaper).

                  Actually, that $100 is almost as high as what that particular motherboard sold for a few months ago. Worse, the plain P8P67 was a budget P67 board to begin with. For such a lower-end board with such an outdated chipset, I would not spend more than about $65 for it.

                  • 7. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                    AnonimTotal Level 1

                    I live in Poland, we earn less than in US, yet we pay more for hardware. The p8P67 (94$ exactly) is the best motherboard option I found right here that gives me rather good CPU overclocking. Still I assume no significant 'speed' difference between this p8p67 vs Z77. And CPU's are more pricely here. And if 560ti (448 cores) / gtx570/ gtx 580 gives me good performance/cost ration, no reason for me to buy gtx 6xx series.

                     

                    I will have 32gb ram, and computer will be use exclusively to adobe programs, so no need for fast startup or switching between applications. That is why I suppose i do not need to invest in SSD. I even consider placing one old HDD i will find at home (before check it with some HD soft). For adobe soft (concentrating on premiere) i will buy 3 HDD's, and i could use RAID0 on P8P69 mobo, if I am unlucky with it I will use separately 3xHDDs as Harm's Generic Guideline suggests. But just read Caviar Blacks are not great for Raid0, that someone compared two Spinpoints and Cavair Blacks in Raid 0 and min transfer was better with Spinpoints. So mostly considering now HDD setup, what I can buy at which price, I am mostly worriend that different size of the same HDD model perform a bit differently.

                    • 8. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                      Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I have a Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD4.  With the i7-2600k I was able to readily overclock (under low ambient tempertures) to 5.0 GHz.  When the i7-3770K chip was introduced I bought one and upgraded to the newest BIOS (still latest).  I never was able to get more than 3.9 GHz from that chip/motherboard combo.  If I were to go with a Z77 motherboard it is simple to overclock the i7-3770K much higher.

                      • 9. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                        JEShort01 Level 4

                        WD Blacks are excellent for RAID 0 ("non-RAID" with no redundancy). There are lots of people that suggest do not use WD blacks for RAID where RAID = parity RAID array (RAID 3, 5, 6, etc.) due to the WD Black series not supporting TLER (time limited error reporting), but this is not a concern for RAID 0.

                         

                        Regards,

                         

                        Jim

                        • 10. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                          AnonimTotal Level 1

                          OK, monday I order hardware, friday I go get it.

                           

                          Here comes my build:


                          Already bought:
                          PSU:
                          X-660 seasonic (660W, +12V 52A, that's why I buy GTX660 - little less power consumption, still I suppose i could get troubles with PSU)


                          I buy on monday:

                          MOBO: Asus P8P67 ( http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_ ... 155/P8P67/ ) - old but I but it a bit cheaper

                          CPU: 2700K (old but overclocks better and i buy it a bit cheaper)

                          CPU cooler: Thermalright HR-02 Macho Black White

                          • (this is huge, and it comes with s.2011, socket 1155 version could not work with my mobo.)

                          RAM: 4x8GB Corsair vengeance low profile (CML32GX3M4A1600C10B )

                          GPU: GTX 660 (without ti) (Gigabyte GV-N660OC-2GD, looks ugly, unfortunately wide, I chose this because 660ti cost 70$ more and I can buy almost 1 HDD for these 70$)

                          HDD: 4 x hdd Caviar black (WD Black 500GB WD5003AZEX 64MB cache SATA/600 )

                          • (I could get 4x1TB seagate 7200.14, its bigger capacity, bigger density 1TB, bit faster -1 platter, but they come with 2 year warranty so after 3 years if 2 become dead, it would feel quite sorry. Besides, WD should be less problematic. Every warranty shipment is 7$ shipment to them and a bit mess for myself :mrgreen: )


                          And I buy TY-143 thermalright fans, these are red and have different motor up to 2000rpm. Very noisy.

                          Have a nice day, if something is wrong with this build moneywise, let me know! If I am lucky with my build, get it working without bsod's, i will give it a try and do ppbm5 benchmark

                          • 11. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            Regarding the PSU. It is a myth that a 1500W PSU consumes more energy than a 600W PSU. Both will only draw the power from the wall outlet that the machine requires. If your computer needs 600W, then the 600W PSU will be running flat out at 100% of its rated capacity and the 1500W PSU will be running at 40% of its rated capacity.

                             

                            Compare it to running. If you run at 100% of your capacity, you cant keep it up long and with a slight incline on the track you may break down. You don't have the strength left to overcome that incline. If OTOH you run at 40% of your capacity, you don't even break a sweat, you don't have such labored breathing and you can keep it up for a long time.

                             

                            Efficiency of the PSU determines the loss between what is pulled from the wall and what is consumed by the computer. The lower the efficiency, the more loss between them. In general it is best to load a PSU to around 40 - 60% of its rated capacity, because then its efficiency is best. But with increasing loads, efficiency drops, so from an electricity bill point of view, it is better to use a higher rated PSU because of its better efficiency. Most PSU's have variable speed fans for keeping cool. If the load on the PSU is high, the fans run flat out, making more noise and further reducing efficiency.

                            • 12. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                              AnonimTotal Level 1

                              Harm, I am amazed at how active and helpful you are. I read a few of your replies, and after I get PC working I will still read your  posts here regarding hdd setup and general performance.

                               

                              I already have this seasonic x-660. I bought it rather cheap, it is quality PSU but a bit weak. If it is too weak, I will buy more powerful one.


                              I could make only 1 project at a time so i quess 500gb hdd's are OK.


                              What about rest of the build, is this config ok?

                              As I wrote before:

                               

                              MOBO: Asus P8P67 ( http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_ ... 155/P8P67/ ) - old but I but it a bit cheaper

                              CPU: 2700K (old but overclocks better and i buy it a bit cheaper)

                              CPU cooler: Thermalright HR-02 Macho Black White

                              • (this is huge, and it comes with s.2011, socket 1155 version could not work with my mobo.)

                              RAM: 4x8GB Corsair vengeance low profile (CML32GX3M4A1600C10B )

                              GPU: GTX 660 (without ti) (Gigabyte GV-N660OC-2GD, looks ugly, unfortunately wide, I chose this because 660ti cost 70$ more and I can buy almost 1 HDD for these 70$)

                              HDD: 4 x hdd Caviar black (WD Black 500GB WD5003AZEX 64MB cache SATA/600 )

                              • 14. Re: Premiere CS6 low-budget build: SSD + onboard raid? (gtx470 / 2500K)
                                AnonimTotal Level 1

                                All is assembled and working (no OC so far).

                                I have onboard raid only - asus p8p67 (intel chipset: 4xSata3GB, 2xSata6GB + some marvell controller)
                                I have 4x WD5003AZEX, which are 500GB caviar black


                                There are few options:

                                A) I use 4 disk config like in Generic Guides by Harm,
                                B) I use 1HHD for system nad Raid0 array of  3HDD's for rest,
                                C) I use 2 Raid0 array of  2HDD's each

                                D) I use old slow and small HDD for OS, and make Raid0 array of 4xHDD

                                 

                                will there be differences in speed and which HDD setup would be fastest?
                                Thanks in advance!