We're having the same issue. Anyone out there come up with a resolution?
Be sure you're following the instructions on our instruction page for using MathType with InDesign: http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/works_with.asp#!target=indesign
You've left out a critical part of the picture, and that is how you're getting the equations from MathType into InDesign. One thing that may have a bearing on this issue is that I recently learned that when you start with a Word+MathType document and place it into InDesign, the MathType equations are converted into EPS with WMF preview (if you're on Windows). If you convert the problem equations to EPS/none, many if not all of the problems go away -- at least they did in the document I was working with.
If you'd like to provide a sample document, either by attaching it here or sending a link to a cloud folder, I'll take a look. If you're going from Word to ID, send the Word document as well as the .indd document.
Wow. Fantastico! Thanks very much. We've been copying from Word and pasting into InDesign. We'll look into seeing about changing the setting to 'EPS/none'.
Thank you, Bob!!
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There are a few hoops to jump through, but it seems one of the critical elements is unembedding and linking the images as described in the article. Even then, sometimes the equations can't be edited. I've had more success on Windows, but on the Mac, crazy as it may seem, the least problematic workflow is Word 2008+MathType 6.7e, saved as .doc.
If you have any trouble, let me know.
You are officially our hero. thank you so much!!
Awesome; glad to help!
we're trying to work out our workflow with Word 2010+ MathType 6.7 (through 6.9)+ InDesign/InCopy CS6. We've been embedding MathType in the past, and are now considering placing each MathType to prevent random characters from disappearing.
Our results are much better with linked/placed MathType EPS/none objects than with embedded objects, but we're still seeing characters disappear. It's a big step for us to change our MathType to linked objects, so we're still trying to make it bulletproof. Any suggestions would really be helpful!
I've posted a sample test page, the Word doc source, and some of our failed test pdfs here:
Thanks in advance,
I think I'll have a chance to look at it today. Already looked at the PDFs and see you're using Euclid Symbol font in some expressions and Symbol font in others. That's neither good nor bad, just an observation. Sometimes when a symbol fails in Symbol font (a perennially troublesome one), Euclid Symbol works. Not always.
I'll let you know what I find out.
Hi, Steve and MrMathType
This is the worflow we adopted for Indesign in Windows:
1. Place the Word doc in Indesign;
2. Unembed all the equations into a folder. Save the file and close Indesign
3. Use a small program that opens each one off the equations and saves them in really eps format (not wmf format with .eps extension file name -- wich is what Indesign does);
4. Reopen Indesign and relink automatically all the equations.
5. Use a script to force fit frame to content of all the equations.
And that's what we do for books with hundreds (sometimes thousands of inline equations).
One more important thing that we have discovered is not to use PS Type1 fonts with Indesign. For math we use the trutype fonts that come with MathType an for the rest of the text in the books we use OT and TT fonts.
Thanks Maria, especially the observation about not using PS Type1 fonts for math. It's always helpful to hear what others have tried, what worked, and what didn't. It seems like though, if you process the equations in the way you describe, they're not editable afterward in MathType. If that's not an issue, then there's no problem, but it's good to know. (With the MathType SDK, there's surely a way to use a script process the EPS equations from EPS/WMF to EPS/none. Such a process would result in EPS equations that MathType could later edit if need be.)
Steve, after looking over the documents, it does seem like it's Symbol font that's causing the problem, and switching to Euclid Symbol font should correct the issue. You can do that globally in Word by changing it in 1 equation and keeping the checkbox checked to "use for new equations". Then run the Format Equations command (on the MathType tab in Word), set to format the entire document to the new equation preferences. Then export as EPS/none (which I see you're already using), and place into ID.
Interestingly, when I tried Symbol font on EPSs that were placed & linked, it didn't display Greek letters properly, but when I unlinked one of the equations you had embedded (#34 in the ID document) and used Symbol font, everything looked OK.
The equations resulting of this workflow are editable in MathType and I still can make edits from Indesign. I think that the people at DesignScience should have already developed a small program to batch convert the equations in the way I describe in the step 3 of my workflow. I know nothing about programing and I have done that with AutoHotKey (a macro programing language). It took me one morning (it was my first experience)…
Thanks for the great feedback, MrMathType and Maria!
In the example tests I provided, you did notice I switched to Euclid Symbol for several exercises as I had a hunch that good, old Symbol font was causing problems. I've yet to see any issues with Euclid Symbol so far.
Just to confirm what we've been seeing in our tests so far: If only 1 character exists in an .eps using Symbol font, any or all other characters in the .eps (even those in different fonts) are also at risk of disappearing?
Any idea why characters would go missing (in the presence of Symbol font) more often with embedded Mathtype vs. Mathtype that is placed in InDesign?
No. I do not know why this happens with Symbol.
I recommend doing the same that we did in our Windows PCs: uninstall the Symbol font that comes with Windows. This way when we apply the batch treatment to the equations unembedeb by Indesign, any references to the Symbol fonts are substituted for the fonts defined in MathType .eqp file (MathType preferences). Use only Euclid Symbol in the MT equations and in the text of your book. The Symbol font are forbidden in our PCs.
I noticed too that the padding space around each of your equations is too wide. Why don’t you solve that?
Maria, glad to hear the EPSs resulting from your workflow are editable in MathType. Others use Illustrator to manipulate the EPSs from MathType, and this does render them uneditable in MathType. I'm glad your process preserves the integrity as far as MathType is concerned. For years we have wanted to do more with MathType's integration with InDesign, but as a small company so far we haven't been able to devote the resources to do that. We appreciate the work that you and others are doing to solve problems like this. Better EPS support is one thing we hope to place a higher priority on in future MathType versions. Your final question about the equation padding, with the follow-up question -- was this intended for me or for Steve?
Steve, I don't know why Symbol font causes these problems either, but it's even worse on the Mac.
That question is for Steve. I have opened the indesign sample he sent and noticed that padding problem around his equations (too much white space) and, as you know, is really simple to solve that problem.
As a follow-up:
We did extensive testing with the placed MathType and "Euclid Symbol" font setting and our issue is resolved.
One thing to note: We tested with both CS5.5 & CS6 and it only seems to break with CS6.
Thanks for your help on this!
I've seen a lot of different .wmf to .eps converters, but none seem to convert to an .eps format that MathType can still read/edit. Could you, or anyone else, share how to get from an Indesign-generated .wmf (with the .eps extension file name) to a MathType-friendly version?
And yes, once I know how to do that I will change all of that extra white space, too
I agree with you. That problem is worse in Indesign CS 6. It rarely occurred with CS 5.5.
There are no wmf to eps converters in the market that you can use.
I am going to explain again my workflow for math intensive documents (around 100 pages per chapter and between 1000 to 1500 or more equations per chapter):
- 1. Place word file with MT equations in Indesign. Make a backup.
- 2. The result is an ID document with embedded MT equations. Indesign names each one with names like this: ImageXXXXX.eps…. and so on.
- 3. Create a folder and use the Links panel to unembed all the equations to that folder.
- 4. Make a backup of the folder with all the unembed equations. (As you will verify you can open those equation in MT. And when you do that you will notice in the window title of the window where MT is running that the format of the opened equation is not eps! Although the extension (eps), the equations stored in Indesign are, in fact, wmf files). To solve this is necessary to do a Save As (to keep the same name) in MT to transform the equation to an eps format with display/None.
- 5. To solve this problem I (I am not a programmer) have built a small batch of macros with AutoKotKey (http://www.autohotkey.com/) that opens each one of the equations and does the Save As mentioned in step 4. This takes about 45 minutes for 1000 equations.
- 6. The next step is to relink the new equations in Indesign using the links panel.
End result: 1000 editable MT (through Edit With in the Links panel) eps equations placed in Indesign. Time used: about 1 hour. What do you think?
Now about the padding space around the equations:
Quoting an e-mail from Design Science:
Word places some default space around embedded objects to make sure that none of the text runs directly against the objects. Also MathType places a small amount of padding around the equation so that Word displays the equation properly. This can be adjusted but Word can occasionally clip or improperly display the equation without this padding. By changing a variable value in your registry, you can add "picture padding" around your equations so that none of the characters in your equations will be "shaved" and thus omitted. Editing the Windows Registry is not something we suggest for novice computer users. Please be certain you are comfortable editing the registry and have backed up your registry before proceeding.
Quit MathType. Make sure that MathType is not running in Server Mode. (Look for a small icon in the corner of your screen next to your system clock that looks like a stack of three square tiles with a blue sigma on the top. If it appears, double-click on it and choose "Exit" to quit MathType's server.)
From the Windows Start menu, choose Run. Type in "regedit" without the quotes. The Registry Editor functions very much like Windows Explorer. The interface is composed of two primary windows. In the left window, expand HKEY_CURRENT_USER by double-clicking on its folder icon or single-clicking on the boxed-in + beside it. Inside it, expand the Software registry. Inside Software, expand Design Science, then DSMT5, then Windows. Across the bottom of the Registry Editor window, you should see:
My Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Design Science\DSMT5\Windows
In the right window, you should see a small AB-scrap icon next to a Data called PicturePadding. Double-click on the icon. A window will appear. The default Value data is 2, which means there are currently 2 pixels of padding around your MathType equations. By decreasing this number, you can decrease the padding.
Change the 2 to a 1. Click OK. You should not quit the Registry Editor yet. Return to a Word document in which you are experiencing clipping. Run the Convert Equations command from the MathType menu and update all the equations in your document. Please note that changing the picture padding defaults can result in erroneous display within Word including portions of the equations being clipped and not displaying at all.
And that’s it. I use 0 as the default value. Please note that for this value to be applied to old Word documents you have use the Format or Convert Word Equations in Word to remove the padding to all the old equations.
I hope this solves your problems. If you still have any doubts please send me a PM through the forum.
I have a questions related to your workflow.
Each job will have its own preference setting, like, changing font. How do you handle as per your listed workflow.
Here is the simple steps:
1. Using MSWord open the word document and format all the equations using MathType, if you install the MathType it will appear in word as a plugin. You can attach the preference file here, so that all the equations will get converted as per job specification.
2. Export all the Equation as .eps from word using MathType plugin. Make sure you check the "Replace Equation with file name", so that all the equations will exported as .eps and <<eq001.eps>> place holder will be placed.
3. Import the word file into indesign.
4. Write a script in indesign and replace all the <<eq001.eps>> to respective .eps files.
I am not sure I understand your question. Anyway, the workflow you describe is one way to deal with the equations. When I do a math book I prefer to do all the equation and text formating on Word. Then I place the document in Indesign and apply the workflow described above. In the end what I get is text in ID with inline nicely placed MT equations in eps format conforming with the respective baselines...
I have really hoped the makers of MT would supply means of fixing the problem of getting equations from Word into ID as MT editable equations, aligned with the baseline. And providing e.g. as a preference parameter the amount of white space around the equation (or the option of removing it).
I understand there are two basic ways to get the equations from a Word file into InDesign:
The first is converting (I use a Mac and get most files from Windows users) and formatting the equations with the MT plug in, then exporting them, replacing them with e.g. ***Euquation001*** in the Word file, using the MT plug in. Then import the Word file into ID and then placing each equation in its proper place, ajusting each one according to correct baseline. This can be done manually if you have a few equations, but in e.g. a math book, it is undoable. I used to have a script that would replace the ***Equation00n***s with the corresponding equations from the folder they were exported to, aligning them with the basebaseline according to the baseline info in the MT files. However, I have not been able to make this script work in later versions of InDesign. Question 1: Has anyone got a script that will do this this in InDesign CS 6 for Mac, and are you willing to share?
The second method is importing the Wordfile with the formatted equations into ID, there unembedding them to a folder, making them links. The equations are, however, not recognised by MT when trying to edit them and I understand that batch converting them will do the trick. Question 2: Does anybody know about an application or a script that will do that on a Mac?
Hello, I work with MathType on mac (indesign CS6), this is fine except that the square root sign is not quite the same on Mac as on PC. Are there any settings that can change this so that it becomes equally. top line of the character becomes higher on mac.
There must be part of the picture that's missing here. As you can see from my brief little test, the square root symbols on Windows and Mac are identical. Perhaps you can include more detailed information about your workflow (how are you saving the equations, how are you getting them into the document, what version of MathType you're using, what font, etc.), and attach a screen shot and/or a sample document.
I think it's the font that makes it. I use the font Dinot. I have now managed to solved it by changing the settings in the radial gap (vertical) - 10
Did you finally find a new version of the script ?
If yes, could you tell me where ?
Your issue is related to font problem, different version of "symbol" font make the issues. To come across this issues, I would recommend you to use "Eculid Family" which was supplied by the "MathType". Font will there in the "MathType folder". Create a MathType preference with "Eculid Symbol" instead of "symbol". Shaji
Thanks, but this I know, it's been answered long ago.
But that's ok now, I modified the one I had and it works fine for the moment on CS6.
Does anyone know where to find or how create a script that will replace the equation file names <<file name>> in Indesign CC for the Mac?