27 Replies Latest reply on Dec 28, 2012 12:29 PM by Jeff A Wright

    plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC

    sjpt Level 4

      I'm not quite sure how flexible overdrive Library loans using ADE are meant to be, so maybe I'm trying to do something I shouldn't, but the behaviour is very odd.

       

      I have been using my local library and reading loaned books on a Bookeen Opus; using ADE as a necessary intermediary.

      This has worked fine (apart from an ADE irritation mentioned in another post, but that is pretty much a side-effect).

      I can read the books on the PC if I want to (which I generally don't), and on the eBook reader.

       

      My wife recently got a second reader (Sony PRS-350) which we have registered with the same Adobe id.

      I have transferred a bought DRM book to it and that worked fine, we can read it on PC or either reader.

       

      However, I am getting very odd effects with library books. 

      I've transferred books from her library account and mine onto the PC, and on to the first reader.

      No problems, all behaved as before.

       

      BUT ... when I plug the new reader into the computer, ADE gets upset and refuses to go near any of the library books.

      When I try to copy a library book to the reader, I get a message 'CE_COPY_NOT_ALLOWED - No permission to copy the book.'

      And when I try to read one on the PC with the new reader plugged in, I get 'Unable to open ... No record for this loan is found on this machine.'

      Unplug the new reader and I can read the book on the PC; but obviously can't copy it.

       

      Is this a feature of ADE and Adobe DRM rules on library books, or a bug in ADE, or a problem specifically with the Sony, or ...???

       

      Googling gave me various people with 'No record for this loan is found on this machine' issues, but they all seemed different.

      I guess I could install ADE on another machine with another adobeId for my wife, and register her reader with that id, but that seems a bit complicated. And not possible for lots of people who don't have a second PC.

       

      Can anyone suggest a way around it?

        • 1. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
          Frustrated in AZ Level 4

          I think the issue is that the ebook is limited in transfer to one ereader.

          Copying it twice to two different ereaders is administrated by DRM.

           

          Check the ebook's properties on the computer where it resides: open ADE and

          hover the cursor over the name of the ebook in Library mode.  A small arrow

          will appear next to the ebook's name.  Click on that arrow, and another

          drop-down menu will appear.  One of its choices is 'Item Info'.  Click on

          that line, and you'll get a display with the ebook's details.  The DRM

          rights are shown about in the middle of the display.  If it says Copying

          not allowed, then you're not going to be able to put the ebook on two

          ereaders.

           

          ===============

          • 2. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
            sjpt Level 4

            Thanks again for quick reply.

             

            All the books on the PC say:

            viewing: on any device (with time limit on the library books)

            copying: not allowed

            printing: not allowed.

             

            That includes

            1. the bought book (which I have sucessfully copied on to two ereaders; maybe I shouldn't have),
            2. library books which I have transferred to the first book reader,
            3. library books which have been downloaded to the PC but not yet transferred to any ereader.

             

            I'm not too worried if I can't get a book on both ereaders at once, but so far I haven't managed to get a library book onto the Sony at all,

            even if it wasn't yet transferred to the Bookeen. 

            And with the Sony plugged in, I can't read a library book on the PC (no big worry, but an oddity that may help diagnose).

            • 3. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
              Frustrated in AZ Level 4

              SONY ereaders function a bit differently than other ereaders.  When you

              register a SONY ereader with SONY, a small file is created on your PC,

              called 'Reader' somethingorother.  That file is accessed by the SONY

              ereader when it's hooked up to your computer, and the ereader gets some ID

              information from it.  Conversely, SONY can send downloads to that file in

              the background, and some of those updates can mess up the way the SONY

              ereader works.  Your SONY ereader will not work (correctly) if that Reader

              file is not on your computer....

              ================

              • 4. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                sjpt Level 4

                Thanks.  I had installed Sony Reader (otherwise ADE didn't recognize the PRS-350 at all), but not registered it with Sony.

                 

                However, I have found that I can get epubs onto the PRS in any one of three ways.

                1. Get the .epub file onto the computer by opening the .acsm file in ADE.
                  Copy the .epub file to the Sony in Windows file manager.
                2. Get the epub onto the computer by opening the .acsm file in ADE.
                  Open the .epub file in Sony Reader.
                  Copy to the device using Sony Reader.
                3. Get the .epub file onto the computer by opening the .acsm file in Sony Reader.
                  Copy to the device using Sony Reader.

                 

                I think once the PRS-350 is registered to Adobe that (1) will probably work even with no Sony software installed.
                (It's good to keep the system clean of unnecessary drivers and 'helper' programs such as ReaderAppHelper.exe.)

                 

                One or a mixture of the methods above should give me a not too incovenient way of using both readers as I want.

                I might try the register the device with Sony and see if it then behaves better with ADE,

                partly as an academic excercise to understand how things are working.

                 

                Again, thanks for the tips.

                • 5. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                  sjpt Level 4

                  Just a follow-up in case it helps other PRS-350 users.

                   

                  It certainly seems to be a ADE to PRS-350 incompatibility.  Tried different machines and combinations, summary:

                  1. If Sony Reader is not installed, ADE will not recognize PRS-350 (as designed by Sony).
                    ADE will happily display all books, whether or not the PRS-350 is connected.

                  2. If Sony Reader is installed, ADE will recognize the PRS-350 (as designed by Sony).
                    However, ADE will refuse to look at library ebooks while the PRS-350 is connected:
                    it won't read them locally on the PC, and it won't download them to the PRS-350.

                  Workarounds as above.  

                   

                  Extra comment on path 1:  ADE+file manager copy. This does not require the Sony Reader software to be installed on the PC.
                  (Probably requires it in order to get the PRS-350 registered, but does not need it thereafter for the file copying.)

                   

                  Given Sony's reputation for PC software, this makes options 1 particularly appealing.

                  • 6. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                    Frustrated in AZ Level 4

                    Hold on there.  I still don't think the issue is with the Sony Reader

                    software.  Libraries often assign DRM rights to loaned ebooks that prevent

                    copying to other devices and printing so that they conform with the Digital

                    Millenium Copyright Act of 2000 (DMCA for short).  So, the matter isn't

                    really as you see it from your end.

                     

                    And as I said before, there is no incompatibility between the PRS-350 and

                    ADE.  It's a case of DRM protected ebooks that cannot be copied to the

                    PRS-350 - or any other ereader.  And that's what you said when you looked

                    at the digital rights of the library ebooks: copying and printing were not

                    allowed.

                     

                     

                    ===============

                    • 7. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                      Triantiwontigongolope20

                      I'm currently having the same issue. My Sony ereader worked fine with the old version of ADE but the new version is causing all sorts of problems. My best workaround has been to:

                       

                      1. Plug the ereader in and double click PRS-350 in ADE

                      2. Click on the 'settings' icon to the right of PRS-350 and 'erase device authentication'

                      3. Try the transfer again. The computer should authorise the ereader automatically.

                       

                      This worked when I first tried it, but it's stopped working again. I'll keep you posted once I've heard back from Overdrive with a possible solution.

                      • 8. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                        sjpt Level 4

                        And as I said before, there is no incompatibility between the PRS-350 and ADE.

                         

                        In that case, why does plugging in the PRS-350 prevent the reading of the book even on the PC within ADE?

                         

                        The only way I can see that this is correct behaviour and not 'incompatibility' is if I didn't have the right to read the book on the PC, but that ADE doesn't usually notice.

                        Ant that the act of plugging in the Sony makes ADE's interpretation of the DRM rules more accurate than ADE's interpretation of those rules without the Sony plugged in.

                        Codswallop.

                         

                        ~~~

                         

                        By the way, I'm not sure of the interpretation of the DRM info on ebooks.

                        As I mentioned before, all my DRM books show the same rights, except for the time limitation on Overdrive books:

                        • Viewing: on any device (with a time limitation for Overdrive books)
                        • Copying: not allowed
                        • Printing: not allowed

                         

                        What does 'copying' mean in this context. 

                        I don't see how I can view on any device other than the PC onto which I initially download without transferring (copying) to that device by some means or other.

                        I think that copying must mean copying to somewhere outside the scope of my AdobeID, or ...???

                        If I did such a copy, it probably wouldn't work anyway; for example I can't read a DRM book on Calibre, even though that does not involve copying.  (fair enough)

                        'Copying: not allowed' does seem to mean that I can't copy to the clipboard from any PC reader software (fair enough).

                         

                        ~~~

                        All books transfer fine to my Bookeen.  Non-Overdrive books transfer fine to the Sony.  Overdrive books transfer fine to the Sony via explorer or Sony Reader.

                        It is only the combination of ADE, Overdrive and PRS-350 that fails.

                        • 9. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                          sjpt Level 4

                          Triantiwontigongolope20

                           

                          Did you try my suggestions from above of either direct download to the Sony, or transfer using the Sony software?

                          It would clearly be best to have the problem sorted within ADE.

                          Curious that it seems to need a combination of ADE, Overdrive and Sony to stir the bug.

                          • 10. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                            sjpt Level 4

                            Transferred from another thread to keep discussion together.

                             

                            You should not make generalizations based on your experiences with

                            DRM-protected library ebooks that don't allow copying and then say ADE

                            won't copy ebooks to a PRS-350.  That's not true.  I have a PRS-350 and I

                            am able to transfer ebooks to it via ADE.  The difference is DRM

                            protection, which you've overlooked in your previous postings.  THAT is

                            preventing your copying an ebook via ADE to any ereader.

                             

                            I didn't say ADE wouldn't copy DRM-protected books, I said that it wouldn't copy DRM protected library books.

                            As I had mentioned in previous postings, it will transfer other DRM protected books with precisely the same copy protection information (except for the time expiry on the library books).

                             

                            I should have been more precise: ADE 2.0.67532 won't copy Overdrive library books borrowed from Hampshire County Library to my Sony PRS-350 on my machine with Sony Reader 2.0.01.11080 installed.  Others have similar issues. As Triantiwontigongolope20notes above, My Sony ereader worked fine with the old version of ADE but the new version is causing all sorts of problems.  Or see Kovar's issues at http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1079584?tstart=0

                             

                            If you have sucessfully transferred DRM Overdrive books to your PRS-350 using ADE, can you please let us know the version level of ADE and Sony Reader (it's probably the underlying driver software which it installs that matters) you have installed?  That might help us narrow down the bug that undoubtably exists.

                            • 11. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                              Frustrated in AZ Level 4

                              I think we can put another piece in the puzzle from your description.

                              Software is being updated all the time - and I now wonder if Overdrive has

                              changed something in the release used by libraries, or whether some

                              configuration setting has been changed....  The concern I have is that the

                              library's technical support function may not be able to figure out why this

                              is happening.  As I said earlier in these exchanges, SONY does make changes

                              to their Reader support, and your issues could be affected by them as

                              well.  Pile on the new release of ADE, which does have bugs, and I don't

                              see any simple way to get to the heart of the matter and fix it.  This

                              situation is not an 'incompatibility' by definition.

                               

                              =========

                              • 12. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                sjpt Level 4

                                I agree (except that I would define a situation where things don't work together as an incompatibility).

                                 

                                Back to my question in the previous post: do you have an example of versions of ADE, Sony Reader and Overdrive where the three do work together?

                                Examples of combinations that do work together are a first step on the finding what is happening and identifying where the issue is for combinations that don't.

                                • 13. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                  sjpt Level 4

                                  Example of a combination that does work together is:

                                  ADE 1.7.2.1131 will copy Overdrive library books borrowed from Hampshire County Library to my Sony PRS-350 on my machine with Sony Reader 2.0.01.11080 installed.

                                   

                                  This is the same combination as the failing one, but with ADE 2.0.67532 replaced with ADE 1.7.2.1131.

                                  (Also confirmed on a second PC; one Win8, one XP.)

                                  This doesn't prove that there is a bug is in ADE 2.0.67532 it, but it makes it look extremely probable.

                                   

                                  ADE 2.0.67532 won't copy Overdrive library books borrowed from Hampshire County Library to my Sony PRS-350 on my machine with Sony Reader 2.0.01.11080 installed.

                                   

                                  ~~~~

                                  Does anyone know where to submit bugs to ADE? 

                                  The page

                                  https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                  does not include ADE in the dropdown of products.

                                  (and doesn't look as if they'd take much notice even if it did).

                                  • 14. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                    Frustrated in AZ Level 4

                                    What I can give you for an example is my setup.  First, it's ADE 1.7, not

                                    2.0 (I NEVER install fresh software until it's been updated at least once

                                    with the fixes they left out when it was time to release the version.  I

                                    learned that in 30+ years of working with computers and software.).  Next,

                                    I have two PRS-350's that were registered with SONY, the Reader Library

                                    downloaded and upgrades to the SONY software on the ereaders applied.

                                    Third, I borrow ebooks from my local libraries here in Arizona, and they

                                    use Overdrive.  I use five libraries locally here, including the University

                                    of Arizona.  The level of Overdrive installed and its setup seems to be a

                                    bit different, but I've not had a reason to ask for the details of their

                                    setups.

                                     

                                    When I go to the library and borrow an ebook, it's a textbook exercise.  I

                                    have my ereader attached to my computer and it verifies that it is

                                    communicating with my computer.  I then log onto the website for the

                                    library, find the ebook, and go through their checkout procedures (which

                                    ARE different between libraries - something to discuss with your

                                    library?).  When checkout is complete, and it's time to download, the

                                    library's software (Overdrive) asks me whether I want to OPEN or SAVE the

                                    .ascm file.  This is not really going to happen - the ebook represented by

                                    the .ascm 'pointer' file will be downloaded to my computer in either

                                    Reading mode (OPEN) or Library mode (SAVE).  When I reply, Overdrive issues

                                    a 'call' to my computer to open ADE.  [BTW: this 'call' can be blocked by

                                    Windows software if permissions aren't set correctly].  ADE will open and,

                                    since I always pick the SAVE option, it will display the ebook on my

                                    computer in Library view when the download is completed.  I then have the

                                    ability to 'drag and drop' the ebook onto my PRS-350 - assuming the DRM

                                    settings will allow the copy.  I can then close ADE, and watch the

                                    PRS-350's screen while it finishes processing the ebook data.  When it's

                                    done, I can use Windows' 'Safely Remove Hardware' function to close the

                                    connection, and detach the PRS-350.

                                     

                                    This process has worked for me every time....

                                     

                                    ================

                                    • 15. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                      sjpt Level 4

                                      @Frustrated in AZ:  Thanks for that post: I'm sure it will help others as well.

                                       

                                      Yet more evidence that the problem is with ADE2.0 which you so wisely avoided.

                                       

                                      If you are starting with a new install, it is relatively difficult to find the older versions.

                                      (After 45+ years in the industry I tend to use older software, though I have just updated my Office from 2002 to 2007).

                                      To be fair on Adobe product test, it is very difficult to find bugs that involve not just your own software,

                                      but two other parts, one pure software and one a driver/hardware combination.

                                       

                                      The checkout procedure is slightly different (and simpler?) from our library.

                                      No Overdrive software on the PC, only at the library site; the checkout always downloads a .acsm file.

                                      This opens from the browser by default in the standard Windows manner with ADE,

                                      which downloads the .epub behine the scenes.

                                      I could of course change the default to open .acsm with Sony Reader or something else if I prefer.

                                      Drag onto the PRS-350 is then as for you.

                                      • 16. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                        mattrweaver1

                                        I have just been dealing with the Sony PRS-350 and ADE permissions issues this week, so this is timely. For Sony devices, you have to install the Sony Reader Library software in order to get ADE to detect it. The Sony software contains the device drivers. I believe that one Adobe ID can be attached to up to 6 devices.

                                         

                                        Regarding the permissions issues: I'm a librarian and deal with ereaders quite a lot. Since ADE 2.0 came out, we have been getting some complaints about permissions problems with books that have been transferred to devices, particulary Simple Nook Touches. What follows is the solution that has worked with eInk Nooks.

                                         

                                        One thing you can try is to deauthorize your computer (Ctrl+Shift+D) and the device (Ctrl+Shift+E). Then, with the device plugged in to the computer look at the file structure. The Sony Reader will appear as two drives. One contains the books, etc; the other houses setup software. In the drive that contains the books you will see a folder called "adobe digital editions" or it may just be "digital editions." Try deleting that folder. Then, restart ADE and it should have you re-authorize your computer, etc.

                                         

                                        You do not need Overdrive software on your computer to download ebooks onto an ereader, just for audiobooks. That software in app form is used for ebooks when viewing on tablets. You cannot use Sony software to transfer library ebooks.

                                         

                                        Just yesterday I got a Sony PRS-350 (not a bad little device, IMHO, btw) to play nice with ADE 2.0, so I hope you or someone else finds this info helpful.

                                        • 17. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                          sjpt Level 4

                                          mattrweaver1, Thanks for replying.  Must be a nightmare for your library support ....

                                           

                                          Unfortunately your suggestions didn't work for me.  (The folder is just 'Digital Editions').

                                          Could be the difference in level of the Sony driver?  I have Sony Reader 2.0.01.11080 installed.

                                          Not a real issue for me any more, as reverting to Digital Editions 1.7.2 does all I need.

                                           

                                          Yes, PRS-350 is a nice little device. 

                                          Shame it needs special driver software to run properly; no need for that with the Bookeen Opus.

                                          • 18. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                            Triantiwontigongolope20 Level 1

                                            Nice to meet you mattweaver. I'm also a Librarian in Australia and we've been getting a lot of customer complaints about this just in time for Christmas.

                                             

                                            So, the word from Overdrive is that there have been some incompatibility issues between Sony ereaders and ADE 2.0. I've been finding my problems are intermittent - sometimes the book transfers, other times I get the error message no matter what I do.

                                             

                                            So Overdrive recommends using Sony Reader Library. It used to be the case that you couldn't transfer library ebooks with this software but this has changed. - just make sure the latest version is installed.

                                             

                                            Interesting the hear that the Nook is having similar issues. Nooks aren't sold widely in Australia but I'll keep that in mind for the future.

                                             

                                            sjpt - if Sony Reader Library doesn't work for you, please let me know and I'll look into it further.

                                            • 19. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                              sjpt Level 4

                                              Triantiwontigongolope20:  Thanks for the comment.  Yes, Sony Reader works for me. 

                                               

                                              I haven't tested it but I guess Sony Reader won't work for my Bookeen Opus (reasonably enough), so won't be a very convenient overall solution for me.

                                              Better for me was loading onto ADE2.0, and copying the .epub files from PC to PSR-350 using a file manager such as Explorer.

                                              (Once the PSR is registered with AdobeID, that works even with no Sony software on the PC).

                                              But most convenient was to install ADE 1.7.2.

                                               

                                              The best method for any particular user will obviously depend on their circumstances.

                                              Maybe one day Adobe will make an ADE 2.1 and it will work properly?

                                               

                                              Version 1.7.2 is a little difficult to find,

                                              UPDATE.  1.7.2 available on Adobe site for Windows and for Mac.

                                              http://helpx.adobe.com/digital-editions/kb/cant-install-digital-editions.html

                                               

                                              also for PC at http://www.tucows.com/preview/853736/Adobe-Digital-Edition-For-EBooks

                                              • 20. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                                mattrweaver1 Level 1

                                                Hi Triantiwontigongolope20. I didn't know that you could use the Sony software to transfer library books, that's interesting. I have the first Sony touch model and like it a lot, in fact it is by far the easiest ereader for getting up and running on Overdrive ebooks: no computer required for registration or searching (although the mobile version of Overdrive websites leave a lot to be desired), no ADE at all, as long as you have wifi. The Sony devices, frankly, are not very popular at my library. Kindles, tablets, and the Nooks dominate.

                                                 

                                                sipt, sorry that didn't work. The issue may be different for Sony devices. What a headache! And yes, I have had my share of ebook-related headaches in my day job. I'm glad you found a source for older Adobe Digital Editions. I will make note of that.

                                                • 21. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                                  Jeff A Wright Adobe Employee

                                                  Thanks SJPT for pointing me to this thread.  I will put on my to do list to test out a library book with ADE 2.0 and syncing to a Nook and Sony Reader.  I will also try transfering the book to the Overdrive media app for iOS.

                                                  • 22. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                                    sjpt Level 4

                                                    Thanks Jeff.

                                                    A couple of questions:

                                                     

                                                    1 - Is there a way to change topic title?  My original topic title is somewhat misleading now.

                                                     

                                                    2 - What's the proper way to submit bugs on ADE?

                                                     

                                                    I asked higher up:

                                                    Does anyone know where to submit bugs to ADE?

                                                    The page

                                                    https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                                    does not include ADE in the dropdown of products.

                                                    (and doesn't look as if they'd take much notice even if it did). <<< maybe I'd better retract that bit?

                                                    • 23. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                                      Jeff A Wright Adobe Employee

                                                      As the original poster you should be able edit the discussion.

                                                       

                                                      For submitting bugs we don't have a formalized process.  Usually we are notified of potential issues via our support team.  Unfortunately the volume is so low for ADE that it can be more difficult for them to spot trends.

                                                       

                                                      If you can reproduce a particular error consistently feel free to reach out to me via private message or my e-mail jwright@adobe.com.

                                                      1 person found this helpful
                                                      • 24. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                                        sjpt Level 4

                                                        Thanks again. 

                                                         

                                                        I can edit recent posts, but not older ones, and can't see any way to edit the thread title.  Never mind.

                                                         

                                                        Hopefully I won't see any more bugs, but I'll keep your address in mind.

                                                        • 25. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                                          Jeff A Wright Adobe Employee

                                                          I was able to test checking out a library book using the Overdrive Media Console on iOS as well as utilizing a Nook Color.  I first checked out the book in the Overdrive Media Console and then downloaded the book in ADE 2.0.  I was then able to successfully transfer the book to the Nook Color in ADE 2.0.

                                                           

                                                          Unfortunately I was unable to get the Sony Reader PRS-505 to connect via USB.  Thus I was unable to test it with ADE 2.0.  The connection issue appears to be an issue with the Reader as the Sony software could not see the Reader under Mac OS or Windows 7.

                                                           

                                                          I was thinking about this issue a bit more and it maybe possible that the DRM itself may have prevented the book from being activated on 3 different devices.

                                                          • 26. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                                            sjpt Level 4

                                                            @Jeff. Unfortunately I was unable to get the Sony Reader PRS-505 to connect via USB. 

                                                            Another recent post (about Nook) pointed out there are sometimes problems connecting a device via a hub,

                                                            where direct connection to PC USB works fine.

                                                            I don't know if this applies to your setup or to the PRS-505, but an extra confusion to throw into your testing.

                                                            • 27. Re: plug in second eBook reader, can't read library book on PC
                                                              Jeff A Wright Adobe Employee

                                                              Thanks SJPT it was a direct connection.  It did detect the cable connection and put itself into USB disk mode.  I can't even get the PRS-505 to show up in the system profiler or device manager so I think it is simply a failure of the device itself.  I will inquire with our support team next week to see if they are reporting any issues with these devices as well.