7 Replies Latest reply on Dec 14, 2012 4:11 AM by generalbatzorig

    problem with typing Cyrillic in InDesign

    generalbatzorig Level 1

      Previously I was able to type in Cyrillic type using Windows True Type fonts in my InDesign. I have both CS4 and CS6 running. The fonts are still there and everything else is pretty much the same. Somehow now I can't type in Cyrillic type using Windows TT fonts. The Unicode fonts are still typing fine in Cyrillic on my InDesing. Windows TT Cyrillic shows just bunch of squares. But when I just copy and paste some Cyrillic text from Word document into InDesign, it shows fine. I place my cursor behind that text and start typing, and it starts showing squares instead of letters. Microsoft programs do not have problem typing in Cyrillic.

       

      I had this problem before. Somehow I was able to solve it but can't remember what I did.

      Does any one know what is wrong with my computer?

        • 1. Re: problem with typing Cyrillic in InDesign
          Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I have no idea what is wrong, but I have some fairly random questions and suggestions:

           

          Microsoft Word will silently substitute another font if you switch keyboards - but InDesign won't. When you paste Cyrillic text into ID, what font is being used in ID? Can you tell us which fonts work in Cyrillic in Word that don't work in ID?Of course, not all fonts have Cyrillic glyphs, and "TrueType" is a file format, while Unicode is a font encoding - so your separation of these does not make sense to me.

           

          Is your default text marked with a character style? (Is there a character style selected when you don't have any documents open?)

           

          If you run through this:

           

          ...  when I just copy and paste some Cyrillic text from Word document into InDesign, it shows fine. I place my cursor behind that text and start typing, and it starts showing squares instead of letters...

           

           

          then select the Cyrillic text to check the font, then a single pink square. Same font, or different fonts?

           

           

          There's a setting I've never used or understood in Edit -> Settings -> Advanced Type "Use inline input for non-Latin text." Is that box checked?

          • 2. Re: problem with typing Cyrillic in InDesign
            David W. Goodrich Level 3

            I think "Use inline input for non-Latin text" shouldn't really affect typing Cyrillic directly at the keyboard.  As far as I know, the feature determines where the CJK IMEs show the list of "candidates" (possible characters for a given input string), either near the cursor or at the edge of the screen.  However, enabling it has caused problems in the past so I leave it unchecked.

             

            David

            • 3. Re: problem with typing Cyrillic in InDesign
              generalbatzorig Level 1

              <<<<<<< When you paste Cyrillic text into ID, what font is being used in ID? Can you tell us which fonts work in Cyrillic in Word that don't work in ID?>>>>>

              I am sorry for giving you a little wrong iput on my previous entry. I rechecked it and found out that MS Word also has a problem with the Win TT fonts that I installed later. Those added fonts do show in the font menu, but as soon as I start typing, the font changes to Arial, Times Roman, or Courier New (to other fonts with cyrillic extension that came with Win 7). I copy a Unicode text from Word and convert it to Windows text using Unicode>Windows text converter.  Then I paste the text into ID and select one of the Windows TT fonts. (sorry, those Mongolian cyrillic modified fonts have have strange name extensions, such as Ch_Minion, Arial Mon etc). This way the text looks fine. But when I insert my cursor within this text and start typing, all I can see is bunch of sqaures within the text. Selecting all the squares or a single square still shows the name of the font correctly. Typing with English keyboard has no problem showing the english letters within the Mongolian text.

               

              <<<<< Microsoft Word will silently substitute another font if you switch keyboards >>>>>>>
              This was true. For example, I set my font to one of the later installed True type font while in English Keyboard.  And as soon as I change the keyboard to cyrillic, the font changes to Calibri (default).

              If I set the keyboard to cyrillic first and select the later installed Win TT font, it changes to default when typing starts. The Unicode fonts do not have that problem and work on both MS and InDesign.

              So I think it is not just the problem with Adobe. It might be in the Windows system.

              <<<<< Is your default text marked with a character style? (Is there a character style selected when you don't have any documents open?) >>>>>

              Yes, when I open the Word on a blank page, it has Calibri (body) font selected as default. And that font has cyrillic capability.

               

              <<<<<<<There's a setting I've never used or understood in Edit -> Settings -> Advanced Type "Use inline input for non-Latin text." Is that box checked?>>>>>>

              I have checked and unchecked this box, but no difference.

               

              I remember being able to type  in Mongolian cyrillic in ID before. It was before I reformatted my computer and added Adobe CS6 Master Collection. I am wondering if this change caused the problem.

              • 4. Re: problem with typing Cyrillic in InDesign
                Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                There's a lot going on in here!

                those Mongolian cyrillic modified fonts have have strange name extensions, such as Ch_Minion, Arial Mon etc

                That is a very old way of handling Mongolian text input. All of the glyphs for Cyrillic Mongolian are in plain old Arial now, and a pretty decent number of other fonts. And the Mongolian glyphs are in a place that the OS (where any Unicode-compliant app) can find them, while the modified fonts store them in non-standard locations. So you shouldn't need to use any kind of

                Unicode>Windows text converter. 

                to switch between codepages for Cyrillic Mongolian text if you are using contemporary fonts.  We did it that way back in the 20th century, but now such specialized codepage-conversion tools are mostly unnecessary, even in some very rare complex scripts. (Sadly, traditional vertical Mongolian scripts is not one of those scripts.)

                 

                For what it's worth, the only evidence anywhere on Google that the "Ch_Minion" font exists is... this thread.

                 

                What can you tell us about your text converter? Converting Unicode text to some pre-Unicode encoding system is a bad idea in almost every circumstance.

                 

                I remember being able to type  in Mongolian cyrillic in ID before. It was before I reformatted my computer and added Adobe CS6 Master Collection. I am wondering if this change caused the problem.

                The format, maybe. Certainly not CS6. Can you tell me what input method you use? Do you use the one built into Windows? (By the way, what version of Windows are you using?) Or do you use a third-party solution?

                • 5. Re: problem with typing Cyrillic in InDesign
                  generalbatzorig Level 1

                  Thanks for the reply. Seems like I am really messed up. Everything I use is the third-party fake products that costed me very little. It is very easy to find such things in this place. My Windows 7 is a fake one (though I had original 64 bit Win7 at first, but had to reformat it for some reason).

                   

                  <<<<<<<<<That is a very old way of handling Mongolian text input. All of the glyphs for Cyrillic Mongolian are in plain old Arial now>>>>>>>>

                   

                  I know that Windows has some fonts that include all the necessary glyphs. But I don't want to use Arial or Times New Roman for my book design. Those Modified Mongolian Cyrillic fonts have the typefaces that I want to use. Unlike Russian cyrillic, Mongolian alphabet has 2 additional letters that are "not included" in almost all Pro version fonts sold commercially. (ө and ү-this is not english y nor greek ү)

                   

                  <<<<<<<<Can you tell me what input method you use? Do you use the one built into Windows?>>>>>>>>

                   

                  I downloaded Mongolian QWERTY keyboard from a third-party software developer. (www.dusal.net) If I remember correctly, my original Win 7 had Mongolian qwerty keyboard included in it, but this fake Windows 7 didn't have Mongolian qwerty key. So I had to use the Input from this 3rd party.

                  Now my only option is to copy and paste from Unicode>Windows text converter or hit the glyph letters one by one.

                  • 6. Re: problem with typing Cyrillic in InDesign
                    Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Now my only option is to copy and paste from Unicode>Windows text converter or hit the glyph letters one by one.

                     

                    I am 100% certain that we can do better than that. Not tonight; I have some research to do before I can answer you. I had no idea that Mongolian required the y-with-straight-descender. You're right, that is not in most fonts, not even the Adobe Pro fonts with the extensive Cyrillic coverage.

                     

                    However, there are plenty of languages (Burmese, Khmer, Bulgarian, you name it) where I have to make the old-fashioned broken-custom-encoding fonts work happily in InDesign next to new, well-encoded OpenType fonts. So give me a couple of days and I'll post again.

                    • 7. Re: problem with typing Cyrillic in InDesign
                      generalbatzorig Level 1

                      It is so kind of you to try to solve some one else's problem.
                      I want to remind you of one thing. I want to use those specific fonts bacause they work well with my current Design project. These are modified versions of fonts such as Minion, Garamond, and Miniature fonts. If I only needed the fonts with Mongolian letters, I could have gone with any other Unicode fonts available on my computer. However, very few fonts are within my stylistic preference.

                      Thanks