19 Replies Latest reply on Dec 18, 2012 6:51 AM by Miss Cao

    Can't place text in text-wrap area

    Miss Cao

      Hi all,

       

      I need some help with Lesson 3 from Adobe InDesign CS5 Classroom in a Book. I am almost complete with the exercise but am currently having issues on placing text onto a text-wrap area. I have already applied the text wrap on the relevant graphics frame on the master page, however for some reason InDesign won't allow me to place text into a text-wrap on the corresponding document page. So I tried re-tracing my steps if I did anything wrong by the book, but I couldn't find the solution on my own so I'm now posing this question here.

       

      I know this might seem like a small problem to many of you but for a noob like me it's kind of frustrating, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

       

       

      Miss Cao

       

       


        • 1. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          If necessary, I think I can find the CIB and look at lesson 3, but the most likely problem is that you need to select the text frame, go to the text frame options dialog, and check the Ignore Text Wrap box inthe lower left corner.

          • 2. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
            Miss Cao Level 1

            Thank you for replying. I tried your suggestion and checked Ignore Text Wrap in the Text Frame Options dialog box after selecting the text frame in the master page but it still doesn't work. The loaded text icon still doesn't appear in parentheses.

            • 3. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              OK, I didn't understand that the frame was on the master page. That makes a huge difference.

               

              Master objects are ALWAYS at the bottom of the stack on each layer, so for any particular layer anything on the master page will be behind all objects on the document page or other master objects that have been overriden onto the document page. Moving the text frame onto a new layer above the graphic is probably what's required here.

               

              Let me see if I can locate the CIB...

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                I found the book. If you're still having trouble, please tell me which page youare on and which step you are attmpting.

                • 5. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  I've completed Lesson 3 and I didn't encounter any problems with placinghte text withthe file set up as directed, so I think you may have made an error in following the directions someplace. Please let me know which page and I should be able to tell you what's wrong.

                  • 6. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                    Miss Cao Level 1

                    Thank you for your help. I think that you're right that the text frame might have been overridden. I am on page 82, attempting step 7 on the section 'Placing text and graphics on the document pages'.

                    • 7. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      OK.

                       

                      When you use placeholder frames, as there are in this lesson, placing the content into the frames changes the stacking order because once content is palced into the placholder it is automatically overrriden onto the document page. This means that what you think is on top may not be there any longer.

                       

                      When you placed the photo you had to click inside the frame in the area above the top margin because the image frame was behind the text frame on the master page. When you did that, the image frame was automatically overridden onto the document page, and because docment page objects are in front of the master page objects the image frame is now in front of the text frame, which is still on the master page. I suspect you have been trying to place the text by clicking in an area covered by the image.

                       

                      When you place content into a frame it doesn't matter where inside that frame you click. In the case of text, it will always fill from the upper left (for left-to-right languages) and honor any text wrap, reflowing towards or away from any changes in text wrap that might happen later. If there is more than one frame threaded together, you can click anywhere in the entire threaded set and the text will fill from the first frame as long as you are dealing with text frames on the document page.

                       

                      In this lesson the text frames are threaded, but they are on the master page, so you do need to click inside the frame on the left side (page 2), but you want to click someplace away from the image that's already there. Make sure you click in an open area of the frame, and not on any guides. If you accidentally click on a guide ID will ignore the exisiting frame and draw a new one at that point (which no book I've ever seen is going to tell you). That used to happen to my students from time to time and it took me quite awhile to figure out.

                       

                      From a "real world" perspective, there are some flaws in how this lesson is built. Number one is probably that it lacks layers. It's a good idea to build a stucture in your file that allows you keep things organized. In general, text should always be at the top of the stack to avoid problems with transparency flattening, which you will get into in a later chapter. you also have a page marker in the footer on page 3 that is hidden by the image that bleeds off the bottom of the page. In this case that is not much of a problem, but if you wanted that to show it would make sense to put it on a second layer above the layer that holds the images. Many designers will set up a layer heirarchy with layers for background objects, images, and text, or even more complex structures if it is required.

                       

                      My second big quibble with this leson is how it deals with the text on the colored bars. There is actually no reason to have the color bar and text as separate frames. A single text frame can be uses in both locations, with the colro added as a fill, and the text positioned using the various paragraph alignment options, text frame insets, and vertical justification settings. This would make a cleaner file (and it might prevent the mistake I hope you noticed in the figure on page 88 where the dark blue bar is the wrong size and extends into the gutter next to the first column of text). I also disapprove of using graphic frames for color bars that are not intended to have content. Using the shape tools (the ones without the X in their centers) allows you to set a default fill or stroke and creates an "unassigned" frame. If you do need a color bar separate froom the text frame that you might put on top of it (and yes, there are times when that's a good idea, like adding a solid color background to your page, just not here in this lesson), it's often helpful to put them on a layer that can be locked so you don't accidentally click inside them with the text tool and convert them to text frames, which can leave you wondering why you can't select the text in front, or acidentally place images or linked text into them.

                       

                      Finally, when you overrode the text in that sidebar the authors had you select the individual words and change the text size. What about the space between the words? In the lesson a 12 pt space between the 36pt R and the 60 pt V isn't so bad since the V slopes away from the R, but What if that were an L insted of the V? I took a look at the "end" file sample and in that the space is set at 26 pts. My inclination would be to include it with the first word and apply the same formatting, then kern the space/following character combination if required (but kerning isn't introduced until lesson 5, so maybe I'll cut the author a little slack here).

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                        Miss Cao Level 1

                        Firstly, thanks for the suggestions and heads up on the mistakes in the textbook - it will come in handy later when I get to them.

                         

                        As for my problem, I have tried placing the text away from the image that's there on an open area, but no matter where I hover the text on the page, the loaded text icon doesn't appear in parentheses and where ever I click, a new text frame appears.

                         

                        I think I may need to draw a new text frame on to a new layer above the graphics as you suggested earlier, though I'm not sure how to go about it.

                        • 9. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          Is it possible you didn't draw the text frame on the master page? Because it was snapped to the guides it's hard to see if it's actually there when the guides are visible. You can hide the guides by going to View > Grids and Guides > Hide Guides and the text frame should show up as a dotted outline with two solid vertical lines at the gutter between the columns like this (this is a capture of page 4 with the guides turned off):

                          Master Page Frames.png

                           

                          If you see this on Page 2 you should be able to click in the open area unless perhaps you accidentally locked the frame. If you are folowing the instructions for the lessons you will be using the default preferences, and those are set to prevent selection of locked objects which also means that you cannot place content into a locked frame. Normally you would see a small padlock icon near the upper left corner of a locked frame, but if you've placed your photo already it would be hiding it. You probably should double-click on the Placeholder Master page and check to be sure that the text frame is there and not locked. In this screen capture I've locked the frame on Master B, and circled the lock icon on the page and in the Layers panel (which you probably do not have open as it isn't covered in this lesson):

                          Locked Frame.png

                           

                          If you are still having trouble after this, I'd be happy to look at your file to see what the problem really is, and I'll send you instructions for uploading to my dropbox if you want to do that.

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                            Miss Cao Level 1

                            I have hid the guides as you suggested and confirmed that the text frame is there on the master and document pages. I also made sure that the frames weren't locked and still can't place the text, so I think I may need to take up on your offer to look at my file.

                             

                            I apologise for inconveniencing you and thank you in advance.

                            • 11. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              No bother at all. Do you have the link?

                               

                              I't getting late here, but if I don't get to it tonight I'll take a look first thing in the morning.

                              • 12. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                                Miss Cao Level 1

                                I'm not sure what link you're referring to. Are you perhaps talking about the link to your dropbox?

                                If so, I don't have it. Could you please give me the link?

                                • 13. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  I've sent the link again. Check your email for a Private Message.

                                  • 14. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                                    Miss Cao Level 1

                                    Okay. I've got the link and uploaded the file.

                                    • 15. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                      I have your file, and it's a real puzzler. It's not working here, either. I'm going to paly with it for a while.

                                      • 16. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                        I think the problem is the text frames on the master page. If I delete them and make new ones everything works, but there's a difference between your CS5.5 and mine, and it may be the source of the problem. There have been some bug fixes issued and the current version of InDesign CS5 is 7.5.3. You are still using 7.5.0 according to the file history, so the first thing you should do is download and install the patch (which could be a problem if this is a school computer). You can do that from Help > Updates... or by downloading the patch directly from http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=5367

                                         

                                        Once you've done that you should try opening the file again, go back to Master B and replace the two text frames with new ones. In case you are not able to do that, I'm going to send you a link to a copy of your file where I've done it for you. I'm adding a comment or two, as well, on a new layer that you can delete to let you know about anything else I spot that needs to be addressed.

                                        • 17. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                          I've found a second problem with placing the text that I cannot fix. It may also be due to the early version. When I place the text using smart text reflow a page is added to the file that should not be. When you use the old method of holding the Shift key for autoflow the text flows correctly. I've never been a fan of Smart Text Reflow, myself, and leqave it turned off for my work, but it is useful for working with alternate layouts so you should be familiar with how it works. I would say for this lesson you can either use the shift key or rebuild the file from scratch after installing the update patch. Or maybe I can send you a file that works...

                                          • 18. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                            I've been palying with new files in CS5, 5.5 and CS6, and in all cases using smart text reflow adds pages in my files instead of flowing into the threaded master frame. I actually believe this is the way it's supposed to work and the Classroom in a Book is in error telling you you don't need to hold the shift key, but as I mentioned, I never use the feature in my work.

                                            • 19. Re: Can't place text in text-wrap area
                                              Miss Cao Level 1

                                              It finally worked!

                                               

                                              After downloading and installing the patch, and replacing the text frames on the pages like you said, I was able to place text into the document page like normal. I also corrected the mistakes you spotted, so thanks for that.

                                               

                                              Really, you've been a huge help and I'm grateful for the many tips you've given me.

                                               

                                              Thanks, Peter.