34 Replies Latest reply on Dec 27, 2012 5:20 PM by Jim_Simon

    How to export a DNxHD file in AME

    bujibump13

      Im having a bit of a problem. I shot a music video, edited on Premiere, footage was 1080p(24fps) on 60d. I exported the vid using QuickTime and dnxhd as the codec. This gave me about a 6gb file for a 5 minute video. I then put that same file back into adobe media encoder to reexport to h.264, YouTube preset. Thats when the problem starts. While it is encoding something weird happens with the pixels. I see specks of green and yellow that show up on the video when it is done encoding. I tried resizing it to 720p but i got the same result. Can anyone tell me what im doing wrong?

      Also is it normal for a 5 minute vid to be around 6gb when exported to dnxhd?

       

      Export settings: QuickTime to DNxHD codec, re-export h.264 to YouTube preset(target bit rate 10, max 40)

       

      Hp pavillion, i5 processor, 6gb of ram, ati radeon graphics

       

      Any help is appreciated, thanks

        • 1. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
          lasvideo Level 4

          I can tell you that the size of the file is correct. As to the other issue, I have not bumped into that one.

           

          Do you have the most current DNxHD and Quicktime for Windows files installed?

          • 2. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
            bujibump13 Level 1

            Not sure, i will have to check. I tried re-exporting the 6gb dnxhd file in apple QuickTime pro to see what would happen. Used h.264 as the compressor. I didnt have the color issue but the file was still large, almost 2gb. Is that normal as well? I thought it would be smaller.

            • 3. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
              Felix CL Level 3

              Q1: Have you installed any funky codec pack or only the ones you need from reliable sources?

               

              just a quick question aside:
              why do you use a compressed format for re-export and

              don't export your edited sequence again to h.264 ?

               

              and here you can find the current files:

               

              http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/en423319?popup=true&NewLang=en&DocType=1 450

              http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/en392959?popup=true&NewLang=en&DocType=1 450

              • 4. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                lasvideo Level 4

                Well, 2GB is quite a bit smaller then 6GB  . The size is determined on how you set the data rate controls when you make the H.264. I dont use QT H.264 so Im not up to date on that work flow. I use MP4 H.264 on the PC.

                • 5. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                  lasvideo Level 4

                  Felix, most post houses and facilities consider DNxHD a Mastering codec. Its common procedure to archive your project as a DNx master then later strike any client dubs or broadcast dubs from it to H.264. Its usually faster then re exporting from Premiere, especially if you have effects and AE dynamic links on the timeline.

                  • 6. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                    bujibump13 Level 1

                    lasvideo, could the 709/RGB option in DNxHD be causing my color issues? Ive been choosing the 709 option, perhaps i should opt for the RGB. I would prefer to use your workflow, this color issue made me try QuickTime. If you exported a 6gb video using your preferred workflow how big would the file be?

                     

                    Felix, i was told about the dnxhd codec by a guy who also does videos, thats why i opted for it.

                    • 7. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                      lasvideo Level 4

                      Yes, I had gamma issues when I used 709. I switched to RGB and that fixed it. Although your issue sound like artifacts to me. Not sure why those would be happening.

                       

                      Check this out. This will calculate video file size based on codec and length.

                       

                      http://www.digitalrebellion.com/webapps/video_calc.html

                      • 8. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                        Felix CL Level 3

                        lasvideo wrote:

                         

                        Felix, most post houses and facilities consider DNxHD a Mastering codec. Its common procedure to archive your project as a DNx master then later strike any client dubs or broadcast dubs from it to H.264. Its usually faster then re exporting from Premiere, especially if you have effects and AE dynamic links on the timeline.

                        In my neck of the woods we still master to tape / XDCAMHD...

                        pretty oldschool one would think.

                        And yes Tom, you're absolutely right, my last project was almost exclusively AE dynamic links (heavy compositing on all GS-material + fully animated parts in between)  and i could not prerender intermediates, because the client would come with last second changes in the last couple of days before finishing... so exporting was ultimately a long time waiting for orange bars to fill up.

                        --

                        And also yes, if there's no color-grading or compositing to be made ever again on the video, DNxHD is a good choice.

                        But to get back to the OP's problem:

                        If he get's artifacts in his h.264 encoding from the DNxHD why not export directly from the timeline (that hopefully has the right sequence settings)

                        instead of going the long route from h.264 source material to DNxHD back to h.264?

                        • 9. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                          bujibump13 Level 1

                          Thanks for all the responses guys, its very helpful. Im trying to figure out whether my problem is caused by gamma issues or artifacts. What are gamma issues and what are artifacts?

                          • 10. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                            Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                            Choose '709' when you're encoding to DNxHD 444 and 'RGB Levels' when you're encoding to DNxHD 422.

                             

                            File size is determined by bitrate. Therefore, your QuickTime H.264 media file may have excessive bitrate, definitely not 10 Mbps of the YouTube preset. You can check it out via QuickTime Movie Inspector.

                            • 11. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                              bujibump13 Level 1

                              What specific dnxhd codec should i opt to use? I read that the 10bit 175 at 23.98 fps would give me the best quality. Also as far as the bitrate goes, is it safe to assume the higher the bitrate the better the quality?  What bitrate number should i opt for?

                              • 12. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                Felix CL Level 3

                                gamma shift:

                                gamma.jpg

                                (image source: videocopilot.net)

                                 

                                 

                                artifacts (one of many kinds):

                                colorartifacts.jpg

                                (image source: photo.net)

                                • 13. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                  bujibump13 Level 1

                                  What are gamma issues and what are artifacts? Also what target bitrate do you opt for in your workflow when uploading to the web(YouTube etc). What bitrate will give me the best quality?

                                  • 14. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                    I would think 10 bit is over kill. And the faster the bit rate, the bigger the file. I usually use DNxHD 175 8 bit for 23.976

                                    Screen Shot 2012-12-19 at 9.39.56 AM.png

                                    • 15. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                      lasvideo Level 4

                                      Nice visuals, Felix.

                                      • 16. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                        Felix CL Level 3

                                        i'd say between 5MBit/s and 8.

                                        Did you do a lot of work in post (graphics, compositing, etc.?)

                                        since i suspect your source footage from the canon 60D is shot on h.264 with 4,45 MBit/s ?

                                        Seriously for youtube use, just go with the according youtube presets, they work fine.

                                         

                                        regarding your first question, i tried to illustrate the answer with the two images.
                                        Gamma issues are issues regarding the relationship between pixel value and luminance.

                                        Artifacts are, well, artifacts in the video: pixels of a wrong colour, noisy / blocking pixels around edges / ramps.

                                        • 17. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                          Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                                          Nope, the best quality you get from DNxHD 444 preset.

                                          175 Mbps 10 bit preset gives you 422 colour sampling. Still enough for mastering quality though.

                                           

                                          Yes, the higher the bitrate, the better the quality. However, that doesn't mean you always need the highest bitrate. Everything depends on your needs. If you're going to upload your H.264 media file to YouTube, 10 Mbps is quite enough.

                                          • 18. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                            bujibump13 Level 1

                                            Thanks for replying. You said you use mp4 h.264 in your workflow. Do you use the YouTube preset for YouTube stuff or do you use something else? Im on cs5

                                            • 19. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                              Felix CL Level 3

                                              yes, i use the youtube preset for youtube stuff...

                                               

                                               

                                              if your final output is for youtube don't go the long route via exporting and re-exporting.

                                               

                                              if you want to archive a final master for further use later on, pick one of the DNxHD suggestions given by lasvideo and Fuzzy Barsik.

                                              • 20. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                bujibump13 Level 1

                                                Thanks for the info. What causes artifacts? Is it common to see them while exporting your footage or editing?

                                                • 21. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                  Felix CL Level 3

                                                  Is it common to see them while exporting your footage or editing?

                                                  you mean in the preview window while encoding with Adobe Media Encoder?
                                                  honestly i don't know, since i tend to get my eyes away from the screen, when i#m not working and the computer is working for me, so i never look at it.

                                                  definately not while editing and hopefully not in the final output video file.

                                                  • 22. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                    bujibump13 Level 1

                                                    Everybody thanks for the tips, they helped immensely. I tried the rgb option on dnxhd and it worked, no buggy color issues while exporting. Can you take a look at my music video because I have another question about the quality. When i export the file into DNxHD 145 8bit it looks great. However when I export to h.264 mp4 and upload to YouTube the sharpness and clarity diminishes a bit and it takes on a "soft" look. Now I know that you can expect some quality loss when uploading to YouTube, but i have seen great music videos, documentaries, etc(all filmed on 5d, 7d etc), that looked great on Youtube's main 360p player without going up to 720p, so I know it is possible for the quality to not diminish as much. Why is it that some videos look great on 360p and some don't? What does it take to make it look good?

                                                     

                                                    Take a look at this music video and let me know your thoughts about the quality of this video and how I can improve it. YouTube encoding has brought down some of the sharpness and detail of the visual. Maybe this is in my head, i've been searching out this export/upload stuff for over 3 weeks now. Thanks for all the feedback, you guys are very helpful.

                                                     

                                                    Workflow- Shot on Canon 60d 24fps, edited in Premiere CS5, Quicktime, DNxHD 145 8bit codec, Re-export to H.264, mp4, VBR, Target/ Max bitrate- 12/40

                                                     

                                                    http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tElulEApR8

                                                    • 23. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                      bujibump13 Level 1

                                                      Just posted the video and additional questions, take a look, let me know what you think, thanks for the tips

                                                      • 24. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                        Why is it that some videos look great on 360p and some don't?

                                                         

                                                        Honestly, I don't think any of them do.

                                                        • 25. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                          lasvideo Level 4

                                                          Glad to hear you got the DNxHD thing cleared up.

                                                           

                                                          BTW your link to You Tube is not correct. 

                                                           

                                                          I dont know what your original looks like so I have no point of comparison. I viewed it at 1080P full screen and the problems I see have more to do with over exposures and noise associated with DSLRs right off the top. Except for those kind of issues it looks OK to me.

                                                          • 26. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                            bujibump13 Level 1

                                                            Answer something for me. I talked to a videographer who shoots in 24p(5d) then uses the apple prores/re-export in QuickTime pro h.264 workflow. For a typical 4 minute music video he said his file size when he uploads to YouTube is usually 400-600 megs. How is that possible? When i export to the dnxhd codec my 5 minute music video is 6gb. When i export again to h.264 the file is still 1gb sometimes 2gb which both take hours to upload. Can i get my file size smaller or is that just the way it is? My workflow is QuickTime to dnxhd codec, re-export to QuickTime h.264.

                                                            • 27. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                              Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                                              How is that possible?

                                                              You have already been pointed out that file size is determined by bitrate, and if your 4 minute H.264 movie weighs about 2 Gb, you exported it with excessive bitrate. Set appropriate one in exporting settings (Target and Maximum Bitrate within Bitrate Settings section on Video tab for H.264 Format or Limit data rate to within the same section for QuickTime H.264 Format).

                                                               

                                                              By the way, why are you exporting to DNxHD at all, if your goal is just to upload your movie on YouTube?

                                                              • 28. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                                Felix CL Level 3

                                                                Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                How is that possible?

                                                                You have already been pointed out that file size is determined by bitrate, and if your 4 minute H.264 movie weighs about 2 Gb, you exported it with excessive bitrate. Set appropriate one in exporting settings (Target and Maximum Bitrate within Bitrate Settings section on Video tab for H.264 Format or Limit data rate to within the same section for QuickTime H.264 Format).

                                                                 

                                                                By the way, why are you exporting to DNxHD at all, if your goal is just to upload your movie on YouTube?

                                                                i have asked this twice already but he never seemed to have tried exporting straight to h.264 mp4 for youtube...

                                                                • 29. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                                  bujibump13 Level 1

                                                                  Sorry i didnt reply to that question earlier felix. I tried the dnxhd codec because a fellow videographer suggested it. He told me he used apple prores so i looked for a pc equivalent. I actually tried to upload the way you suggested but it seemed like the quality was really diminished. Perhaps i did it wrong. My workflow was h.264, YouTube preset, target bitrate 8.5, max bitrate 14. Let me know what you think. I just want the highest quality possible.

                                                                  • 30. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                                    Felix CL Level 3

                                                                    Just to make sure because you said upload:

                                                                    Have you waited a while for YouTube to finish processing your video?

                                                                    Sometimes it takes YouTube quite a while to do that and in the meantime you will se a very sketchy preview version...

                                                                    How does the quality of your h.264 export look when you preview the file ?

                                                                    (before you upload. In vlc?)

                                                                    • 31. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                                      Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                                                                      Try to reflect on the following: you have something in PrPro timeline created out of original footages. You somehow can't export what is in the timeline to H.264 with satisfactorily quality. How adding an extra step to your workflow - exporting what is in the timeline to a digital intermediate - could improve the quality of your further render?

                                                                       

                                                                      OK, let's move on. First AVCHD camcorders shot with 17 Mbps, nowadays AVCHD cameras shoot with up to 28 Mbps. You hardly need more. If you are not satisfied with the media file quality exported out of YouTube preset (by the way, how do you judge on quality?), start from H.264 HDTV preset. You can hardly be able to playback a movie with 32/40 Mbps in your media player smoothly, thus decrease it to e.g. 28 Mbps or even 17 Mbps.

                                                                       

                                                                      Choose VBR, 2 Pass so as to get better quality out of smaller file size.

                                                                       

                                                                      Tick Render at Maximum Depth, if your timeline contains some 32-bit effects.

                                                                       

                                                                      Check if Maximum Render Quality improves or worsens the quality of your output.

                                                                      • 32. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                        My workflow was h.264, YouTube preset, target bitrate 8.5, max bitrate 14.

                                                                         

                                                                        You've changed the preset.  Don't do that.  Just use the one that matches your content's resolution and frame rate.

                                                                         

                                                                        And yes, it will not look as good as the original once uploaded.  There's nothing you can do about that.

                                                                        • 33. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                                          bujibump13 Level 1

                                                                          Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all! Thanks for the tips so far guys, very helpful. Now that I've uploaded the video, im noticing that it seems to stutter a little bit at different points during playback. The stuttering is subtle but noticeable(at least to me). Is this normal? Can anyone tell me whats causing the lag and what I can do to eliminate it?

                                                                          • 34. Re: How to export a DNxHD file in AME
                                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                            Post the link so we can see.