14 Replies Latest reply: Dec 22, 2012 8:09 AM by the_wine_snob RSS

    Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing

    Avagadro1

      Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing

       

      I am in the learning/practicing stage of PE-11. Following along in Steve Grisetti’s book, I’ve been trying to learn about keyframing one’s adjustments.

       

      As a learning exercise, I wish to instantaneously increase the gamma --- say, 10 points above normal --- for a length of five seconds of the timeline, then to snap back to normal.  If I use the keyframing technique, my results are that, as the CTI line moves along, the image GRADUALLY lightens to the 10-point increase that I desired, then returns to normal. But for purposes of my test, I don’t want a gradual application of the Adjustment, but an instantaneous change, remaining such for five seconds, then returning to normal.

       

      Am I interpreting these results correctly?  Does keyframing by its nature always apply adjustments gradually, or did I do something wrong?  And if I did nothing wrong, then how would one achieve the effect I am looking for, i.e., an instant, not gradual, application of some visual or audio adjustment for merely a few seconds, then return to normal?

       

      Thank you,

       

      Howard

        • 1. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
          Steve Grisetti MVP

          It sounds like you're coming right along, Howard! (And thanks for supporting the book!)

           

          In fact, you're on the verge of learning a pretty advanced technique: Keyframe interpolation.

           

          See, by default, keyframes gradually change from one setting to another. But you can interpolate them to change abruptly too, as you want to do.

           

          To interpolate a keyframe, right-click on the keyframe point you want to hold your setting on and select, from the right-click menu, Hold. This will keep the settings for that keyframe until you reach the next keyframe -- at which point it will abruptly change to the next keyframe's settings.

           

          Pretty cool, huh?

           

          As you can see, there are a number of interpolations available.

          • 2. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
            Avagadro1 Community Member

            Thank you, Steve.

             

            Another possibility occurred to me, though I have yet to test it.

             

            If I want an instant change to some Adjustment, say, a five-second hold on that Adjustment then an immediate return to normal, how about the following:

             

            Zoom in on the intended five-second stretch of the timeline.  Isolate that five-second stretch by cutting the timeline both to the left and right, thereby creating a new clip.  Apply the desired Adjustment to this new clip only, NOT via keyframing, but to the entire new clip (only five-seconds long), using the Adjustment tool.

             

            I would think that such a technique would result in an instantaneous application of the Adjustment, then, at the end of the five-second clip, an immediate return to normal state.

             

            I’ll try this technique.  Assuming it works as intended, is there a reason (perhaps not obvious on its face but that might cause a problem later in the project) to prefer one over the other?

             

            Thanks,

             

            Howard

            • 3. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
              Steve Grisetti MVP

              That way works too, Howard. But keyframing is the more sophisticated way to do it.

              • 4. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                Avagadro1 Community Member

                Well, Steve, I've been trying for almost an hour, but cannot get the keyframe "HOLD" to work.

                 

                For example, I create the initial keyframe (with keyframe marker on the keyframe timeline).  I then apply the Adjustment (say, +30 Saturation, to make it easy to see the effect).  I move the CTI up an inch.  I then add another keyframe marker.  Then adjust the Adjustment back to 0.  I then go back and apply the "HOLD" to the first keyframe marker (it changes shape to indicate the HOLD).  Result:  the increased Saturation begins at the first keyframe and gradually increases to +30.

                 

                Alternatively, I create the initial keyframe (with keyframe marker on the keyframe timeline).  I then turn that first marker into a HOLD.  I then apply the +30 Saturation Adjustment. I move the CTI up an inch. I then add another keyframe marker, then adjust the Adjustment back to "0".  Result: the increased Saturation begins at the first keyframe and gradually increases to +30.

                 

                I tried several other sequences of regular marker, Adjustment, Hold marker, applying the HOLD to the first, second or to both keyframe markers.  None achieves the goal of instantaneous application of +30 Saturation, hold for five seconds, then snap back to normal "0" Saturation.  Between the two markers is the gradual change from "0" to +30 Saturation, before the instant snap back to "0" Saturation.

                 

                I looked for a reference in your book, beginning at page 161, but found no reference to application of the HOLD function.

                 

                I there a tutorial among Adobe's offering?

                 

                Thanks,

                 

                Howard

                • 5. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                  Steve Grisetti MVP

                  No. I don't cover interpolations in my book.

                   

                  I'm not sure why it's not working. You are right-clicking on the diamond-shaped keyframe, right? Not a round keyframe indicator. And the keyframe is changing to a completely different shape to indicate the interpolation, right?

                   

                  Can you post a screen capture of your keyframed timeline in the Adjustments panel so I can see it?

                  • 6. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                    Howard,

                     

                    When an Effect Keyframe is created, it is, by default, Linear (no Interpolation), and is displayed as a "diamond." One is limited to changes in Keyframed Effects to 1 Frame, or ~ 1/30th of a sec. for NTSC 29.97. In the image below, I have set the Opacity for a Clip to 100%, and then in the course of 1 Frame, it goes to 0%, and holds for about 05 sec., before it then jumps to 100% in the course of 1 Frame. Look at both the Effects Control Panel's mini-Timeline, and also at the graph of the Keyframes for Opacity, in the Clip, in the main Timeline.

                    Keyframe_Linear_Hold.png

                    Hope that this helps, and good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                      Steve Grisetti MVP

                      Thanks, Bill.

                       

                      Here's an illustration of a keyframe interpolation in the Adjustments panel. As you can see, the first keyframe has been interpolated to hold its settings until the next keyframe (indicated by its change in shape).

                       

                      Interpolations.jpg

                      • 8. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                        the_wine_snob Community Member

                        That image should help Howard.

                         

                        Interpolation is most useful to me, as I seldom want Linear for my Keyframes. I most often use Bezier, or Ease-Out/Ease-In, which is really just a Preset for Bezier, in certain instances.

                         

                        Now, if one is doing, say music videos, or they desire an "edgy" look, then the abruptness of Linear can be just the ticket. I am normally going for a more "liquid" look, so smooth is what I seek.

                         

                        I also see that the Effects Control Panel's look has changed a bit - just got my PrE 11 discs, but have not had time to install and explore it yet - maybe after New Year's Day?

                         

                        Appreciated,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                          nealeh Community Member

                          Bill Hunt wrote:

                           

                          just got my PrE 11 discs, but have not had time to install and explore it yet - maybe after New Year's Day?

                           

                          Looks like you've only recently got PRE9 (?) Bill - I don't recall having seen a v9 screencap from you before.

                           

                          Cheers,
                          --
                          Neale
                          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                          • 10. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                            Avagadro1 Community Member

                            Thanks for the effort, but I cannot get it to work.

                             

                            I clearly recognize the two different keyframe-marker shapes:  (1) the regular, diamond-shaped marker and (2) the Hold marker - pointed on left/flat on right (like baseball's homeplate).

                             

                            My goal (of course) is to see a normal view all the way up to the first keyframe marker.  Then an immediate jump to the adjusted effect for several seconds, then an immediate jump back to the normal view.

                             

                            I assume that this requires TWO keyframe markers, the first of which (as in your screen capture above) should be the HOLD marker.

                             

                            I believe the problem is finding the correct SEQUENCE of applying the HOLD, the EFFECT ADJUSTMENT, and the REVERT TO NORMAL ADJUSTMENT.  No matter how I try, I cannot obtain the correct effect, in sequence.  In my experiments, no matter what I do I obtain one of two outcomes, both of which are wrong: everything up to the first marker has the effect, or everything after the second marker has the effect.

                             

                            I'll try some more.

                             

                            Howard

                            • 11. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                              the_wine_snob Community Member

                              For a moment, disregard the Hold Keyframe, and look again at my example. It shows an Effect (the Fixed Effect>Opacity) at 100%, and then, within one Frame, that goes to 0% (fully transparent, or invisible), holds that setting for a defined time, and then, within one Frame, goes back to 100%. Notice that the graph of those Keyframes is almost a squared path, which is what you want.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                                Avagadro1 Community Member

                                Hello Bill:

                                 

                                Because I use PE-11, and it is the first version of PE that I've ever used, I do not recognize most of what I see on your screenshot.  However, I do see the the "rubber band" on the timeline.

                                 

                                For those adjustments able to be controlled via the "rubber band" on the timeline in PE-11, I am able to do so quite easily.  And I'll mention also that I have used the audio-editing program, Audacity, where working with timelines is a piece of cake.  So yes, I certainly understand how the square path you mention in your message (above) will create the "off--on--off" (or "on--off--on") effect that I need.  However, I cannot get it to work using the "Hold" Keyframe marker within the Keyframe functionality.

                                 

                                There is an entirely differ way to accomplish the effect I need:

                                 

                                Zoom in on the intended five-second stretch of the timeline.  Isolate that five-second stretch by cutting the timeline both to the left and right, thereby creating a new clip. Apply the desired Adjustment to this new clip only, NOT via keyframing, but to the entire new clip (only five-seconds long), using the Adjustment tool.

                                 

                                However, Steve advised against this method, stating that combining keyframing with the HOLD keyframe marker is the better way to go.  So I've been trying over and over but have been unable to attain the off--on--off effect.

                                 

                                I'll keep trying to figure it out.

                                 

                                Thanks again,

                                 

                                Howard

                                • 13. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                                  Steve Grisetti MVP

                                  Actually, Howard, I never advised against it. I just said that interpolating keyframes is the more advanced method.

                                   

                                  Please feel free to slide your clips and apply separate adjustments to each segment if that's easier.

                                   

                                  When it comes to video, it's like making babies. We don't care what you had to do to get it -- we just want to see the baby!

                                  • 14. Re: Question Regarding Applying Adjustments Under Keyframing
                                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                                    Howard,

                                     

                                    In my example, there are no Hold Keyframes, just regular, Linear Keyframes. Their placement, and their adjustment will create the "hold."

                                     

                                    The GUI changes with most versions of PrE, so the exact Panels, might well look different. However, Keyframes work the same exact way, in each version.

                                     

                                    For the Effects Control Panel, if you do not see the mini-timeline, there is a little double-arrow icon (upper-right), that will reveal that to you.

                                     

                                    Your method will work, too. In an NLE (Non Linear Editor) program, when one Cuts a Clip, they have not actually altered the original Clip, in any way - it is non-destructive editing. All that has happened is that instructions have been written to the Project file (PREL), telling the program exactly how to proess the data from the original Clip (upon Export/Share/Publish), and what data is required, where, and when. What you see as Cuts, are but representations on the Timeline - sort of a proxy.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt