11 Replies Latest reply on Dec 28, 2012 10:33 AM by Jim_Simon

    Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV

    VidNoob Level 1

      I burned my short film onto a DVD and played it back on a SD television. The film has many color grading tweaks and I noticed that they barely come through on the TV. Definitely not representative of what i have ont he timeline. Any clue as to why this is?

        • 1. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
          Pijetro Level 1

          You need to let us know if you're using a properly calibrated monitor for reference, and if you're using any third party hardware to view it...

           

          Exporting to DVD has a different color gamut, then what you're watching on your computer monitor...

          Also, what's to say the TV that you're viewing on, is correctly setup??

          • 2. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
            VidNoob Level 1

            Well the monitor is as calibrated as i can get it according to the sites online that allow you to attempt to calibrate gamma and color and such based on their settings. I didnt use any hardware to calibrate it, the monitor definitely isnt anything stellar either. When viewed on my friend's HDTV, the same lack of color issues are apparent as well. Now I noticed in a test that the only way to really notice anything color wise is to really push the balance magnitude extremely far to the edges of the wheels with the balance gain on default setting. Hmm. So that would indicate that my monitor is much more sensitive than TV's are I'm guessiong. So does this mean I need to somehow rout my picture from my computer through to my TV to color correct for somethign I intend to be viewed on the TV? Or else how will I know what is supposed to be correct when over correcting for TV on my PC monitor? That can't be the right way to do it, I would think professional color correctors  when grading put all that work into getting ti right on their monitors because thats what they assume will be displayed in the end product... Are graders actually over commpensating sometimes on their monitors and making whats on screen look like crap knowing that it will be much less profound when shown on a TV?

            • 3. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
              shooternz Level 6

              Are graders actually over commpensating sometimes on their monitors and making whats on screen look like crap knowing that it will be much less profound when shown on a TV?

               

               

              NOT if they are professionals.

              • 4. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
                Pijetro Level 1

                The thing about third party cards, and monitoring, is essential to know what the final ouptut will look like...

                You could be editing in HD, but viewing it at SD (with proper color conversion) on the fly, without worrying about color space conversions after output...

                 

                Your method is sort of like flying blind...There's nothing to anchor to.

                • 5. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
                  Pijetro Level 1

                  I'm not sure if i can link externally, but Allan Tepper is a great source to learn from.

                  This article can help move you in the right direction..You'll need to read other ones that relate to it to understand the full depth of what he's talking about...

                   

                   

                  Good luck!!

                  • 6. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
                    shooternz Level 6

                    Here is a great reference video . Info that is the fundamental to all cc/grading.  ('Levels')

                     

                    http://vimeo.com/55139561

                     

                    This is basically part of what his book is about. (Steve Hullfish). Its worth having.

                    • 7. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      does this mean I need to somehow rout my picture from my computer through to my TV to color correct

                       

                      Sort of.  It means you have to get the signal out of your computer and into a properly calibrated TV (not a computer monitor) of the highest quality you can afford.

                       

                      And definitely calibrate your TV as well.

                       

                      http://www.amazon.com/Disney-WOW-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/dp/B0045ASBLG

                      • 8. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
                        cfg_2451 Level 2

                        VidNoob wrote:

                         

                        I burned my short film onto a DVD and played it back on a SD television. The film has many color grading tweaks and I noticed that they barely come through on the TV. Definitely not representative of what i have ont he timeline. Any clue as to why this is?

                        Does your monitor show you the Rec.709 colorspace? And is it fully calibrated?

                         

                        If not, you're not getting WYSIWYG, so there's no way you can know what the output is going to look like without burning a DVD and playing it. Then you can iterate, making changes in PPro and burning more DVDs, until you get what you want.

                         

                        Very few computer monitors can show you Rec.709. To get that, you need either a production monitor, or a fully calibrated HDTV (look for one that's easy to calibrate (supports ISFccc Calibration Mode). If you use a TV, you need to make sure you're getting the proper signal to it also, but PPro using the NVIDIA graphics boards can do this without extra hardware (driving the HDMI port). If you set the driver up correctly.

                         

                        But if you don't have a production monitor, or a calibrated HDTV, you're really just shooting in the dark when it comes to color correction and especially color grading. Not what you want to hear I know. But that's the current state of the art.

                        • 9. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
                          VidNoob Level 1

                           

                          cfg_2451 wrote:

                           

                          VidNoob wrote:

                           

                          I burned my short film onto a DVD and played it back on a SD television. The film has many color grading tweaks and I noticed that they barely come through on the TV. Definitely not representative of what i have ont he timeline. Any clue as to why this is?

                          Does your monitor show you the Rec.709 colorspace? And is it fully calibrated?

                           

                          If not, you're not getting WYSIWYG, so there's no way you can know what the output is going to look like without burning a DVD and playing it. Then you can iterate, making changes in PPro and burning more DVDs, until you get what you want.

                           

                          Very few computer monitors can show you Rec.709. To get that, you need either a production monitor, or a fully calibrated HDTV (look for one that's easy to calibrate (supports ISFccc Calibration Mode). If you use a TV, you need to make sure you're getting the proper signal to it also, but PPro using the NVIDIA graphics boards can do this without extra hardware (driving the HDMI port). If you set the driver up correctly.

                           

                          But if you don't have a production monitor, or a calibrated HDTV, you're really just shooting in the dark when it comes to color correction and especially color grading. Not what you want to hear I know. But that's the current state of the art.

                          I'm pretty certain it doesnt show the rec.709 colorspace. My monitor isnt even widescreen. I actually had no idea about the rec.709 space until just now when you mentioned it. I am a vidnoob hence the screen name

                           

                          I have a geforce 560TI card. Do you know if I can buy a cable that goes from the card to maybe an S video adapter I can plug into the TV to then color correct my project on the TV when doing things intended for TV playback? There's a DVI port on the back of my graphics card and my TV has an S video female port.

                          • 10. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
                            cfg_2451 Level 2

                            VidNoob wrote:

                             

                            I'm pretty certain it doesnt show the rec.709 colorspace. My monitor isnt even widescreen. I actually had no idea about the rec.709 space until just now when you mentioned it. I am a vidnoob hence the screen name

                             

                            I have a geforce 560TI card. Do you know if I can buy a cable that goes from the card to maybe an S video adapter I can plug into the TV to then color correct my project on the TV when doing things intended for TV playback? There's a DVI port on the back of my graphics card and my TV has an S video female port.

                            Rec.709 doesn't have any relation to screen size. Widescreen or not, hardly any computer monitor can display in Rec.709.

                             

                            S-video, IIRC, is an analog input. That TV is old. 15-20 years? And it's SD, so it's closest to Rec.601, not Rec.709.

                             

                            Anyway, a mere cable isn't going to do it. You'll need a conversion from DVI (digital) to s-video (analog) which will take an active box. I doubt you'll find such a device easily, or cheaply. Might be cheaper to buy a new small HDTV with an HDMI input, and a DVI -> HDMI converter. The problem with the small HDTVs is that they are usually difficult to impossible to properly calibrate, yet those are the TVs most in need of calibration.

                             

                            It's unfortunate, but true. The equipment to do good color correction ain't cheap.

                            • 11. Re: Color correction doesnt come through well on DVD project on TV
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              You could try something like the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle to get the signal out.