9 Replies Latest reply on Jan 3, 2013 9:40 AM by the_wine_snob

    PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows

    ReedWhite

      I spent hours working to isolate the following nasty bug, and it's a strange one!

       

      In short, while editing I was seeing a single frame from a video clip get inserted in a still clip that follows.  No, the single frame did not show up as a separate one-frame clip in another track, or whatever.  It appeared instead to be a part of the still (in other words, impossible).  How could a single video frame get inserted in a still clip (without me doing it -- not that I could do that)?  I tried deleting the still (.jpg) clip and re-inserting it in the time-line, but every time the offending artifact frame re-appeared when the still was played.

       

      So, I deleted it from the work area, and moved in a fresh copy.  The problem persisted, even with a fresh copy!  Important: I should mention that the frame did not show itself in any other still clip that followed the video clip.  It only showed itself in that one specific .jpg when it was placed on the timeline, even with a fresh copy of the .jpg.  Somehow, PE-11 knew that I was re-importing the same .jpg, even though it had been removed from the timeline and asset area, and re-imported.  That was strange.

       

      At this point I had been banging my head on this for almost two hours, and I was running out of ideas.  Next, I tried re-naming the .jpg before importing it.  THIS WORKED.  The offending frame was gone from the still clip.  Using exactly the same .jpg with a different name solved the problem.

       

      I wanted to dermine the cause, so I kept experimenting.  The phemenon happened again, and it happened after I had applied a Stabilize to the preceeding video clip.  Because it happened twice after each Stabilize, I think Stabilize is the culprit.

       

      As before, the following procedure eliminated the artifact:  (1) deleting the still clip that follows the video clip, (2) clearing the .jpg from the asset area, (3) renaming the source .jpg, (4) importing it with the new name, and (5) inserting it after the Stabilized video clip.

       

      Because a person can easily spend more time dealing with instability behaviors than editing a video, I hope an Adobe software programmer reads this and endeavors to fix the problem.  It was observed on the Windows version of PE-11, and I expect it might be reproduceable.

       

      ... Reed White

        • 1. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          When you preview the clip in the Clip Monitor (before you add it your timeline), can you see the random clip?

           

          Does the same random frame always appear at the exact same spot in the clip?

           

          Can you zoom into the spot on your timeline as much as possible and then post a screen capture so we can look at it?

           

          ALSO

          What model of camcorder did this clip come from and how did you get it into your computer? Did you use Premiere Elements tools to capture or download it or did you use some other tool or utility?

          • 2. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
            ReedWhite Level 1

            I can't answer all your questions with precision, because the workaround I described fixed the problem.  Here is what I recall:

             

            - The single frame was not visible in the Clip Monitor.  Keep in mind that the clip was just a .jpg photo,

                 so it his hard to imagine how it would show up in the Clip Monitor. (But strange things do happen.)

            - The random frame does not occur at the beginning or end of the still clip; it occurs inside, seemingly at the same place.

            - When I zoomed in, there was no evidence of anything extra in the timeline, but the one frame showed on the screen.

                In other words, the still clip was continious, even though it had a frame inserted in the view.

            - The video clip came from an Android phone via my computer.

            - The project was set to match the clip (although, I could not get the advertised auto-format feature to work).

            - The still (.jpg) clip that ended up with a frame from the video clip was just a .jpg that had been down-sized.

             

            ... Reed

            • 3. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Where, in the Duration of the Still Image, did this "phantom Frame" from the preceeding Video Clip, appear - at the beginning, the Head, or at the very end, the Tail?

               

              If at the Head, I have no idea how that could happen, but if at the Tail, I do.

               

              I have observed a problem, when moving Clips (Video, or Stills) on the Timeline, with Snap ON. If the following Clip is forced against the preceeding Clip too hard, the last Frame, or two, is sheared off, and will then appear at the Tail of the Clip, that was butted against the previous one, with too much force. This can result in Orphaned Frames, that can be left behind, out at the end of the Timeline, if one does any Trimming. In that case, the sheared Frame(s) ARE separate Clips, but are only noticed, if one has the Timeline View zoomed in to show the individual Frames, and even then, might not show up clearly. In full zoom mode, one can carefully select that/those Frame(s), and Delete it. Whether the sheared Frame(s) is/are seen, if one steps through the Timeline, one Clip at a time, with the PageUp/PageDn keys, the CTI (Current Time Indicator) will seem to "pause" or "hiccup," as it hits the Frame(s).

               

              I have never noticed this behavior, with Snap ON, in Premiere Pro, but perhaps does exist there too.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
                ReedWhite Level 1

                The phantom frame did not get inserted at the beginning or end -- rather, it was inserted somewhere in the middle of the still-image clip.  The still clip is displayed on the timeline as a single clip, not two or three.  Snap was on.

                 

                Unfortnuately, I did not run a test to export the video and see if this defect shows up in the final result.  (I know of at least one unrelated defect that shows up in a rendered video that does not show up in the final result.)

                • 5. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  The "phantom Frame" appears in the middle? That is odd.

                   

                  I have seen similar anomalies, but only when editing MPEG Clips, where one has a GOP (Group of Pictues) structure, where there is one I-Frame at about every 15, or so, "difference Frames," and a Cut was made between difference Frames - the I-Frame can mysteriously appear in another Clip - but never with a Still Image, which will be full I-Frame, when one Renders the Timeline and "Video" is created from the Still Image.

                   

                  This is strange, and I have no idea what might be causing the issue.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
                    ReedWhite Level 1

                    Having made further edits, I see more of the same phantom frames from time to time.  This time, the phantom frame gets created from a previous still clip and inserted at the beginning of another still clip.  If I delete the trashed clip from the timeline, I have seen the phantom frame move to the next still clip.  If I delete that clip, it moves to the next clip.  I have verified that there is not a single-frame clip on the timeline.

                     

                    To prevent the propagation of the phantom frame, I have learned that selecting all the remaining good clips on the right side of the time line and sliding them right to create a gap seems to help, if I recall correctly.  Even if I can manage to get the corrupted clips deleted, behavior problems persist.  However, shutting down and restarting PE-11 seems to quell the bad behavior.  I have resorted to shutting down and restarting PE-11 more often.

                     

                    I noticed that the problems seemed to occur after moving a number of clips from place to place in the time line.  As a workaround, I decided that rather than just dragging and inserting, I would first create an empty space in the timeline.  In otherwords, select and move all the righthand clips to the right, and only insert a clip in a blank space.  This requires extra steps, but I have not yet seen a phantom-corruption since working in this conservative manner.

                     

                    At the moment, I am just adding and arranging clips on a single video track.  At this stage, the project is simple.

                     

                    You are probably wondering, "Jeez what is this guy doing?"  Having been a programmer, I would be wondering the same thing if I heard the above symptoms.  I wish I understood what is going on, because doing workarounds is taking more time than actual productive editing.

                    • 7. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Wow, that is odd behavior, indeed.

                       

                      I have never heard of such, and have no idea what is going wrong in your Project. The closest that I have ever seen was with MPEG-2 material, where I Cut in the "difference Frames."

                       

                      Sorry that I have no idea what is happening.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
                        ReedWhite Level 1

                        My source video is from a smart phone at 15 fps.  The PE-11 frame-counter shows even frames, only.  The odd frames are skipped.  I wonder if the every-other-frame thing is providing an opportunity for bugs, which would ordinarly not plague 30 fps work.  Maybe 15 fps is not a part of product testing procedure.  This could explain why most people (who use video from dedicated video cameras) do not experience phantom-frame problem.

                        • 9. Re: PE-11 Inserts Single Frame From Prev Clip Into Still Clip that Follows
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          OK, going from 15 FPS to 30 FPS will entail the creation, or duplication of Frames, so maybe something is going wrong in that process?

                           

                          I have never used lower Frame Rate material, so have no experience in how that can work, or perhaps not work.

                           

                          Good luck, and hope that others have some useful ideas for you.

                           

                          Hunt