30 Replies Latest reply: Jul 19, 2013 8:48 AM by slmathison@aol.com RSS

    View photo metadata

    community help Community Member

      This question was posted in response to the following article: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/lightroom/using/WSFB9BFF22-9A60-4dfc-8CC0-F2A09B515BE7.html

        • 1. Re:  View photo metadata
          Van-Paul

          How can I see the metadata colorspace for RAW photos in Lightroom 4.3?

          As described above on this page I selected all the different premade metadata sets in the Library module. But none of them shows the metadata colorspace (sRGB or Adobe RGB) for my Nikon D800 RAW photos.

          • 2. Re:  View photo metadata
            dj_paige Community Member

            Lightroom does not show a metadata field "colorspace".

             

            Inside of Lightroom, the photos are neither sRGB nor Adobe RGB, but rather a proprietary MelissaRGB.

             

            When you export a photo, you have the option of choosing a color space for the exported photo.

            • 3. Re:  View photo metadata
              Van-Paul Community Member

              Hi dj_paige,

               

              "I know that Raw photo files generally don’t have embedded color profiles. For raw files, the Develop module assumes a wide color space based on the color values of the ProPhoto RGB color space. ProPhoto RGB encompasses most colors that cameras can record." See About color management in Lightroom

               

              But I want to know in which colorspace the original RAW photo was taken, just as I can see the metadata focal length, aperture, shutter and ISO value.

              • 4. Re:  View photo metadata
                RikkFlohr Community Member

                Raw images are not taken in a color space. Technically they are black and white data until they are rendered by a Raw converter.

                • 5. Re:  View photo metadata
                  Van-Paul Community Member

                  Hi Rikk Flohr,

                   

                  In the Shooting menu of my Nikon D800 I can set Color space to: sRGB or Adobe RGB.

                  So I want Lightroom to show me this metadata.

                  • 6. Re:  View photo metadata
                    dj_paige Community Member

                    In the Shooting menu of my Nikon D800 I can set Color space to: sRGB of Adobe RGB.

                    So I want Lightroom to show me this metadata.

                    The color space setting in your camera applies to JPGs only; it does not apply to RAW

                    • 7. Re:  View photo metadata
                      RikkFlohr Community Member

                      Only applies to your JPEG Thumbnails - not your Raw files...

                      Or if you only shoot JPEG...

                      • 8. Re:  View photo metadata
                        Van-Paul Community Member

                        Thanks for helping, but:

                         

                        The Dutch Nikon D800 usermanual on page 274 says: JPG files made in the color space Adobe RGB are DFC-compliant.

                         

                        And in the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....." and "Even with a JPEG's limited color capacity, the colors in the JPEG represent a broader range of color when you use Adobe RGB".

                         

                        Conclusion:

                        - For RAW I can use: Adobe RGB or sRGB

                        - For JPEG I can use: Adobe RGB or sRGB

                         

                        But my simple question is: I want that Lightroom shows me the original color space metadata.

                        Is there a Adobe professional available that can answer my question?

                        • 9. Re:  View photo metadata
                          RikkFlohr Community Member

                          The reason Darrel recommend shooting in Adobe RGB while shooting Raw is so that your JPEG thumbnail embedded in the Raw file looks more like a Raw file and less like a JPEG. Many pros do this and also turn down the contrast on the JPEG preview as well. It gives them a ball-park view of the Raw file before you actually run it through a Raw converter. It has nothing to do with the Raw file and only applies to the JPEG thumbnail.

                           

                          You can specify Adobe RGB and sRGB for either but it does nothing to your Raw file.

                           

                          Lightroom cannot show something that doesn't exist - ie. the Color Space of a Raw file.

                           

                          Lastly, this is a user-to-user forum and an official answer from Adobe Employees is unlikely.  Regardless, no matter how many times you ask the question, the answer will be the same.

                           

                          If you want to post to the Official (Bug and Feature Request forum) it is here: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/products/photoshop_family_photoshop_lightro om

                          • 10. Re:  View photo metadata
                            dj_paige Community Member

                            So to summarize Rikk's very thorough answer, you don't need this information for RAW photos, and LR won't show it to you, and it doesn't exist anyway.

                            • 11. Re:  View photo metadata
                              areohbee Community Member

                              Van-Paul wrote:

                               

                              In the Shooting menu of my Nikon D800 I can set Color space to: sRGB or Adobe RGB.

                              So I want Lightroom to show me this metadata.

                              Lightroom only shows the exif metadata that Adobe chose to support - colorspace did not make the cut.

                               

                              The only way to see this metadata in Lightroom is with the help of a plugin, e.g.

                               

                              ExifMeta

                               

                              Reminder: colorspace chosen in camera does not affect raw data nor Lightroom's rendering of it (it is stored in the raw file, and is critical to proper interpretation of color in the jpeg preview which is embedded in the raw file, but does not affect raw photo processing).

                               

                              Rob

                              • 12. Re:  View photo metadata
                                Victoria_Bampton CommunityMVP

                                Van-Paul wrote:

                                 

                                Is there a Adobe professional available that can answer my question?

                                 

                                If it makes you feel better, I'll answer with an orange Adobe Professional badge and confirm that the answers Rikk and Paige have given you spot on.

                                • 13. Re:  View photo metadata
                                  areohbee Community Member

                                  Van-Paul wrote:

                                   

                                  in the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....."

                                   

                                  Conclusion:

                                  - For RAW I can use: Adobe RGB or sRGB

                                   

                                  This statement is misleading, in my opinion. Consider consulting author and suggest improved wording.

                                   

                                  Although colorspace *does* affect the raw file - i.e. the jpeg preview(s) in it, it does not affect the raw data, and it is ignored in Lightroom (except potentially for a brief moment when displaying the embedded preview from the raw file, before it is supplanted by Lr's rendering of the raw data - but it is probably even ignored then as well - dunno), and it is ignored in other raw data processors as well, for the most part (except potentially, like Lightroom, when displaying the embedded previews...).

                                   

                                  Rob

                                  • 14. Re:  View photo metadata
                                    Van-Paul Community Member

                                    Happy New Year and thanks for all the answers!

                                     

                                    Nevertheless, I want to hear from a Nikon and Adobe expert how color space, JPEG and RAW interact.

                                    So I will mail them the questions below:

                                     

                                    Questions for Nikon and Adobe:

                                    1. Which influencehas has - in Nikon D800 shooting menu selected - color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB) on a:
                                      - NEF (RAW) 14-bit mode Lossless compressed photo and thumbnail? "Does color space affect RAW data?".
                                      JPEG 8-bit mode photo and thumbnail?
                                    2. Is the selected color space saved in the JPEG/RAW metadata so a program like Nikkon Capture NX 2 or Adobe Lightroom 4.3 can show this to me?
                                    3. If you have suggestions or better questions: post it.
                                    • 15. Re:  View photo metadata
                                      D Fosse Community Member
                                      If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB

                                      This is pure and utter nonsense. As the others have told you repeatedly: a raw file has no color space. It is opened into one in the raw converter. The camera setting is totally and completely irrelevant.

                                       

                                      There is no need for any Nikon or Adobe "expert" to comment on this. This is simply how it works, end of story. Period. But unfortunately many people fail to understand this, so the misunderstanding gets propagated.

                                       

                                      The camera jpeg, however, is fully processed in the camera and that's a completely different story.

                                       

                                      That said, it could of course happen that Nikon put something in the metadata so that Capture NX would open it into the "user-chosen" space. But that would be the only reason for it.

                                      • 16. Re:  View photo metadata
                                        areohbee Community Member

                                        Van-Paul wrote:

                                         

                                        I want to hear from a Nikon and Adobe expert

                                        Good luck with that.

                                         

                                        Warning: if you do get an answer from the company rep(s), it probably won't be from an "expert" - it will probably come from somebody who doesn't understand it as well as those in this forum who've already commented.

                                         

                                        Maybe time to accept that user's-manual and other book writers don't always get it quite right...

                                         

                                        PS - I am 100% confident about my understanding of it, despite not having a badge by my name...

                                         

                                        Happy N'Year,

                                        Rob

                                        • 17. Re:  View photo metadata
                                          Van-Paul Community Member

                                          If the people of Nikon and Adobe have the same helpful attitude as the people on this forum I think they seriously answer my question.

                                          • 18. Re:  View photo metadata
                                            D Fosse Community Member

                                            I suppose I should just let this pass, as the question has been answered several times over already, and there's really nothing to add.

                                             

                                            But I just can't resist: The.concept.of.color.space.does.not.apply.to.a.raw.file. How many times should I repeat that? Because I can keep this up for a long time.

                                             

                                            When you're ready to find out how a raw workflow in Lightroom really works, come back, instead of chasing this red herring.

                                            • 19. Re:  View photo metadata
                                              areohbee Community Member

                                              I hope you can shake a little sense into Nikon. Their D300 manual makes no distinction whatsoever between settings that affect jpegs (almost all of them) and those that affect raw data too (essentially just the basic exposure settings). - very confusing to a raw newb.

                                               

                                              Please report what they say if you get a response.

                                               

                                              Thanks,

                                              Rob

                                              • 20. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                D Fosse Community Member

                                                Rob Cole wrote:

                                                 

                                                Their D300 manual makes no distinction

                                                 

                                                I suspect that's because they want all Nikon shooters to use Capture NX - or rather are in denial that anyone should choose not to - so they probably put those parameters into the NEF metadata, and Capture NX can pick it up from there. Integrated workflow and all that....

                                                 

                                                To everybody else, that's just another example of "don't think, let us do the thinking for you". And as a result, people never learn how the stuff really works.

                                                • 21. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                  richardplondon Community Member

                                                  Some camera models change their filename pattern as a prompt, whenever the camera is set to AdobeRGB instead of sRGB.

                                                   

                                                  For example, they may show the first character of your JPGs as an underscore - Pentax, for instance, change IMGPxxxxxx.jpg to _IGPxxxxxx.jpg

                                                   

                                                  Because these cameras may sometimes be set to Raw+JPG (and the main filename still needs to match) you see the same change in Raw filenames also.

                                                  • 22. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                    D Fosse Community Member

                                                    Ah, that's right, same with Nikon: DSC_xxx vs _DSCxxx.

                                                     

                                                    So if the OP really needs to know what his camera was set to (for some other reason than whether it has any effect whatsoever on the raw file...), it's in the original file name.

                                                    • 23. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                      areohbee Community Member

                                                      twenty_one wrote:

                                                       

                                                      I suspect that's because they want all Nikon shooters to use Capture NX...

                                                      Good point. - if one uses NX2 or ViewNX to process, then (theoretically and for the most part), one does not need to concern oneself with such details...

                                                      • 24. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                        areohbee Community Member

                                                        twenty_one wrote:

                                                         

                                                        So if the OP really needs to know what his camera was set to (for some other reason than whether it has any effect whatsoever on the raw file...), it's in the original file name.

                                                        The problem with this, obviously, is that unless one uses the original filename verbatim when renaming upon import from card, such information will be lost, since the tokens available for renaming otherwise exclude such information...

                                                         

                                                        I'm actually in agreement with the general request: support 100% of exif-metadata in Lightroom, natively, but even so, it is definitely worthwhile understanding the scope of influence of in-camera colorspace...

                                                         

                                                        If in-camera colorspace were available as a renaming token, I certainly would not use it.

                                                         

                                                        Rob

                                                        • 25. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                          Van-Paul Community Member

                                                          Nikon's anwwer is here

                                                          • 26. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                            glugglug Community Member

                                                            There is a saying that there are none so blind as those who will not see

                                                            • 27. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                              rafikibrian

                                                              LR 4.4RC shows ISO and shutter speed used in the DNG file from my Leica M Monochrom but the aperture space is blank. Why is LR not reading this information?

                                                              • 28. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                                slmathison@aol.com

                                                                When I use my full frame D600 I know that when the photo metadata shown in Lightroom reads 100mm, the focal length used for the photo was 100mm.

                                                                 

                                                                But sometimes I use my D300 with an 18-200mm DX lens.  When the photo metadata in LR for the D300/18-200mm shows a focal length of 100mm, is that the focal length of the lens used for the shot with or without the 1.5 factor correction for the DX lens??  That is, is the effective 35mm equivalent focal length 100mm or 150mm in this case??  Thanks.

                                                                • 29. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                                  dj_paige Community Member

                                                                  The easy answer is to shoot an image with your D300 and the 18-200mm lens at 18mm, and then see what Lightroom displays.

                                                                  • 30. Re:  View photo metadata
                                                                    slmathison@aol.com Community Member

                                                                    Good suggestion.  I shot images using the D300 and the 18-200mm lens at settings of 18mm and 200mm.  In Lightroom the metadata showed 18 and 200mm.  So Lightroom does NOT show the 35mm equivalent focal lengths which would be 1.5 times the actual focal length.  Thanks !!