11 Replies Latest reply on Jan 2, 2013 9:53 AM by rjgd2012

    Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations

    rjgd2012

      Hope someone can help me!  Have an InDesign file, originally created in 2010 using CS4.  Now using CS6 to update.  Original layout had a placed Word document containing thousands of MathType equations; for some of the content the writer typed directly in the body of the Word file (x + y = z); others he used MathType to create the equations, which are now linked as EPS files in the InDesign file. 

       

      Our problem is some of the linked EPS files are not showing the correct font.....where the fonts should be Times New Roman italic, we are seeing Helvetica in our InDesign layout.  The preview icon next to the linked EPS image (on the left in the Links palette) is showing the correct italicized text.  When I open the problem eps files in Illustrator, the font that's supposed to be the Times New Roman Ital is getting substituted with Myriad Pro.  BUT when I open the problem EPS files to edit them in MathType 6.7, the italicized Times New Roman font appears correctly. 

       

      This problem is inconsistent...some MathType generated eps equations are fine and will appear right next to some that aren't (even the same equations!)   Am not getting any font error messages in InDesign; have tried turning on/off Times New Roman in Suitcase and Font Book.  Have tried deleting cached font files.

       

      example3.jpg

      Again, the document has thousands of equations so can't just manually open up each in AI or MathType to fix/swap fonts.  Have had some success bringing sections from original 2010 Word file into a fresh CS6 document but it's not an option to re-layout the entire document.

       

      Any ideas?    Am tearing my hair out!    THANKS!

        • 1. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
          John Hawkinson Level 5

          Err...I don't know.

          But for a given EPS file that is problematic when you open the document in CS6, is it also problematic when you File > Place that EPS file into a new empty document in CS6? And if you do the same test in CS4?

          Do you have Times New Roman installed on your system? (I guess you do!) What version?

           

          Have you checked with the MathType folks?

           

          Can you share one of the problematic EPS files?

          • 2. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
            rjgd2012 Level 1

            Hi John...thank you for responding.

             

            I emailed MathType last night; no response yet.  I no longer have CS4 so can't run same test in that version; but am having the same result when I bring in one of the problem EPS files into a new CS 6 file.   Weird thing is in the Preview when placing the file, the font is appearing just fine but when the file gets placed and I try to view in the ID layout, the font is showing as Helvetica. First screen shot is the preview;second is the ID layout.Screen Shot 2012-12-31 at 4.44.30 PM.pngScreen Shot 2012-12-31 at 4.45.02 PM.pngdon't think I can upload an EPS to this site..wrong file type?

            • 3. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
              John Hawkinson Level 5

              Yeah, you'll have to put the EPS somewhere else and link to it here. dropbox, yousendit, etc.

               

              I don't think the preview behavior is weird.

              If the situation is as you describe it, and CS4 and CS6 are interpreting the fonts in these EPS files differently, then the preview behavior makes sense. InDesign saves the preview image when the file is placed (CS4), and doesn't update it unless you replace. So if CS4 interpretted the fonts correctly, and CS6 doesn't, then it makes sense.

              Not super-helpful, but less mysterious.

               

              Oh, what OS and version? Your screenshot makes it clear you're on a Mac, I guess.

              • 4. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
                rjgd2012 Level 1

                Sorry...am on Mac, OS 10.7.5.

                 

                Thanks for the insight into the CS4 and CS6 handling of previews....helpful.

                 

                I do have Times New Roman installed but am wondering if that's the source of the problem..multiple versions of the same font.   The one that is currently activated in Suitcase (and is working for the body font in ID file).  

                 

                 

                Suitcase.jpg

                 

                Not getting any missing font error messages in InDesign

                FindFont.jpg

                • 5. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
                  John Hawkinson Level 5

                  Or you could email me one of them? jhawk@mit.edu

                  • 6. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
                    rjgd2012 Level 1

                    that would be great....I'll email one now....thanks John

                    • 7. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
                      John Hawkinson Level 5

                      Hi.

                      Are you sure you sent me a file that demonstrates this problem correctly?

                       

                      When I try to open Image439.EPS in Preview.app, I get %%[ Warning: PostScript error. No PDF file produced. ] %%

                       

                      If I place it in InDesign, I get a low resolution preview image (which is embedded in the EPS file for preview purposes) which matches your second screenshot (I'm not sure its really Helvetica, but it's close).

                      Furthermore, in Link Info, InDesign shows the file as Format: Macintosh PICT Format. That's consistent with the preview embedded in the EPS file, but not the actual EPS file itself.

                       

                      If I open it in Illustrator, I do get what you described. But I think Illustrator may be working hard to try to read this file that is not a compliant EPS file.

                       

                      If I use magic and extract the PostScript code from the EPS file, it doesn't work either. (Not with Preview.app, InDesign, or GhostScript).

                       

                      My conclusion is that this is not really an EPS file, it is something else that is similar. I'm mildly impressed that Illustrator reads it, but not super-surprised that that it reads it wrong. But I don't know how we got there.

                       

                      It has various data embedded in it about fonts and whatnot before and after the postscript code in it.

                      Maybe it's some weird MathType thing...but I don't know what.

                       

                      Umm?

                      • 8. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
                        John Hawkinson Level 5

                        Furthermore, in Link Info, InDesign shows the file as Format: Macintosh PICT Format. That's consistent with the preview embedded in the EPS file, but not the actual EPS file itself.

                        ...

                        My conclusion is that this is not really an EPS file, it is something else that is similar. I'm mildly impressed that Illustrator reads it, but not super-surprised that that it reads it wrong. But I don't know how we got there.

                        Oh duuuuuh!

                        It is not an EPS file!

                        It is a PICT file (which is why InDesign describes it that way).

                        I had no idea that PICT files could contain embedded PostScript code.

                        Or that Illustrator couold read the vector components of PICT file (of course, I didn't know there were vector PICT files).

                        • 9. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
                          John Hawkinson Level 5

                          So, anyhow: you have PICT files with embedded PostScript.

                          It's not super-surprising to me that they are hard to read and InDesign doesn't do what you expect.

                           

                          Also, they are malformed, or at least mutant, because their embedded raster image is in a different font their embedded PostScript.

                           

                          Preview.app can read them if you rename them to .pict first.

                          It gets the fonts right.

                           

                          I am not really familiar with PICT files (aka QuickDraw Picture Comments?). I just spent far too long slogging through the legacy apple reference, Imaging With QuickDraw. Ow my head hurts.

                           

                          Ideally you want to mass convert these files to EPS (or some other reasonable format).

                          I don't know how you should do that.

                          Hopefully MathType can offer you a solution.

                          Maybe MathType is scriptable with AppleScript (I dunno, I don't have it).

                          That's about all I can do. Hopefully someone else can help you out.

                           

                          Oh, I suppose a fallback would be to script Preview.app. It can open them and save them as PDF. But unfortunately it saves them as raster images (of high resolution) and of course they are not further editable in MathType. But it is possible to script Preview.app, so you could do a bulk conversion there.

                           

                          Oh, another choice is to extract the PostScript from the PICT file by hand/magic/handwave/whatever and then doctor it so that it does work. This is actually kind of straightforward, you just replace

                           

                          currentpoint 3 -1 roll sub neg 3 1 roll sub
                          1888 div 512 3 -1 roll exch div scale
                          currentpoint translate 64 8 translate
                          

                           

                          with some scale factor that works, like:

                           

                          0.1 0.1 scale
                          

                           

                          Unfortunately, this seems to give...messed up font positioning:

                          Screen Shot 2012-12-31 at 20.58.35 .png

                          so it's probably not the way to go. (And is that x backwards???? Umm… )

                           

                          Anyhow, yeah. Happy New Year.

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
                            John Hawkinson Level 5

                            Oh, one last thing. I fired on CS4 on a Mac running 10.6.8 and File > Placed the image, and I got the same behavior as CS6. The Helvetica roman+Symbol, not the Times italic.

                            • 11. Re: Fonts missing in MathType EPS equations
                              rjgd2012 Level 1

                              Sorry...i've been away for a day.  On New Year's Eve I finally gave up trying to find a solution...I just couldn't take it anymore!  Thank you for all your testing/insight...wow! I think you're on to something with scripting suggestion....we shouldn't have to edit these further in MathType since this document is basically a reprint with some cover and font style updates.  But I need to get it to a point where we can get it printed again and readable in an EReader....aargh.  Anyway, I'll look at the scripting idea and will let you know how it goes.   THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU... and Happy New Year to you as well.

                               

                              one other thing, I did some quick checks of images; the files with fonts loading correctly are Windows Meta Files; the files that are NOT loading correctly are Mac Pict files.....so you're on to something.