39 Replies Latest reply on Aug 2, 2016 3:41 PM by Kevin-Monahan

    Match Frame for Subclips

    LGod Photo

      So after I make a sub-clip from a piece of media, and having it in the source monitor try to match frame to it's parent clip, I don't know and can't find a command to do this. Help, and thanks in advance.

        • 1. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
          shooternz Level 6

          If its in the Source Monitor..use the timecode to match frame to original media.

           

          Better and easier...put the subclip in  the Timeline and press F for match frame.

          • 3. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
            shooternz Level 6

            If a subclip is in the timeline and selected and the Playhead is over a frame in it...the  Shortcut Key F" will load the source file in the Source Monitor at the exact frame.  ie Match Frame.

             

            Something iswrong if it doesnt.  eg the shortcut key is maybe changed.

             

            BTW - not sure if the Track needs to be selected as well.  Try it.

             

            What version Premiere?

            • 4. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              You sure about that?  I'd expect Match Frame to load the subclip, not the Master clip.

              • 6. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
                Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Match frame loads the master clip

                Change the name of the master clip in the PW then you will know.

                • 7. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  It opens the subclip for me, which is what I'd expect.  The point of creating a subclip is to have a new, 'independant' clip without actually duplicating the file on the hard drive.  That new independent clip acts as any other.

                  • 8. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
                    DavidHildreth

                    I have subclips that I need to match back to master clips. How do I match frame them back? Match framing a subclip from the timeline brings up the subclip, which is fine, but how do I get to the master clip?

                     

                    In Avid I just match frame from the source window.

                    • 9. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
                      pantau000 Level 1

                      Is this issue stil not resolved? Match frame of a subclip does load the subclip, but it should be possible to match frame again to the master clip...

                      • 10. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
                        DavidHildreth Level 1

                        When you make a subclip in CC there is a check box that says "restrist clip to trim boundries" (or something similar I'm recalling from memory). If you uncheck that option your subclips will match frame to a full length clip with your subclip properly marked. That's better, I guess. It's still not how I expect the subclip and matchframe features to act. In a traditional offline/online workflow subclips are still a liability because you CAN NOT get to the original clip.

                        • 11. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
                          pantau000 Level 1

                          This is what should happen, but it is not what happens here: when I match frame a soft-subclip (that is, a subclip not restricted to trim boundaries), what I get is the subclip itself, and NOT a full length clip with in/out of the subclip marked...

                          • 12. Re: How can I match frame from a sub-clip in the source monitor, to a frame in the parent clip?
                            Bharsh

                            Why is this still an issue? It is a major workflow bottleneck for me and I hope that Adobe can resolve this quickly.

                            • 13. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                              quecklafilmtv@hotmail.com

                              I need this too. Both Fcp7 and Avid does this... Common Adobe!

                              • 14. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                JourneyFilmJB Level 1

                                This would be great and makes sense.

                                • 15. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                  eric10001 Level 1

                                  Has this been resolved?  I'm trying to match frame a subclip in the source monitor to its master clips - how do I do it?  "F" does not work.

                                  • 16. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                    Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                    Hi Eric,

                                    As far as I know, this is a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                                     

                                    Thanks,

                                    Kevin

                                    • 17. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                      Antipholous

                                      Hey Kevin (and other community users)

                                       

                                      I feel that this feature is extremely important to fix. I had conversations with Adobe representatives over two years ago about this problem and I think it is astonishing that it is not yet sorted.

                                       

                                      In tandem with my career as a film & TV editor, I teach Avid MC and Premiere Pro for Soho Editors in London, and when conversations start amongst professional editors about how seriously we can take Adobe Premiere Pro in high-end work, this issue causes stunned reactions from other editors. The idea that there currently is no way to return the source monitor to showing the master clip (original source file) from a sub-clip on the timeline, is shocking. It is a stand out example of a single area in which PPro does not function in a manner befitting of a professional edit suite.

                                       

                                      The only work-around that I currently teach, is to use the Metadata tab to show the file properties of the clip in the source monitor. Using this technique, at least an editor can find the audio and video components that made a sub-clip, prior to a merge operation or simple sub-clip creation.

                                       

                                      It is simply an essential operation of a software edit suite, that one can return to the exact location and timecode of an original clip, no matter how many layers of sub-clipping have occurred. From the timeline, a match frame operation should return you to the subclip in the source monitor, then when the operation is repeated, it should return you to the master clip.

                                       

                                      I urge everyone involved with the development of Premiere to fix this as the highest priority.

                                       

                                      Thank you.

                                      • 18. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                        Martinnel Level 1

                                        I'm writing this nine months after the previous post and there have been one major and one or two minor updates to Premiere in the interim. Please, someone, tell me there is a method for this now. I've been searching around in keyboard shortcuts to no avail.

                                         

                                        I wholly back Antipholous that this is a stunning omission.

                                         

                                        Martin

                                        • 19. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                          swedemason

                                          Just moved reluctantly from fcp7. How has Premiere got to 9.1 without this feature? Its a basic function and I use it constantly. Fix it please

                                          • 20. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                            Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                            Hello swede,

                                            Fix it please

                                             

                                            Actually, it's a feature request. Make that here.

                                             

                                            Thanks,

                                            Kevin

                                            • 21. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                              Hello Martin,

                                              I wholly back Antipholous that this is a stunning omission.

                                               

                                              Martin

                                               

                                              Have you made your feature request yet?

                                               

                                              Thanks,

                                              Kevin

                                              • 22. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                Hi Antipholous,

                                                I urge everyone involved with the development of Premiere to fix this as the highest priority.

                                                 

                                                The best way to do that is to file a feature request.

                                                 

                                                Thanks,

                                                Kevin

                                                • 23. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                  editorsavant Level 1

                                                  Greetings Kevin

                                                  Finding a master clip from its subclip is a vital action. Subclips are made as a way of easily handling, naming, manipulating master clips, NOT as a way of divorcing from them. If, once you make the subclip, you lose the association between the two, it isn't a subclip anymore.

                                                  This is so vital.

                                                  Please do all you can to fix this. I will need to give up on PPro if you cannot.

                                                  That sounds like hyperbole, but it is that vital.

                                                  1 person found this helpful
                                                  • 24. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                    jamesm60817151 Level 1

                                                    Has this not been fixed yet?  I curse the lack of this feature on a daily basis .

                                                     

                                                    My logged Feature Request:

                                                     

                                                    How would you like the feature to work?

                                                    After editing a subclip in to the Timeline, you should be able to select the subclip and right-click on it and choose "Remove Subclip Limits". This will enable the entire original clip to be accessible in the Timeline.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Also, we should be able to MATCH FRAME on a Subclip in the Timeline and have the entire original master clip loaded into the Source monitor.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Why is this feature important to you?

                                                    I need this feature frequently. Subclips are great for initial edits and organization but often we need to add frames to the head or tail of a shot or explore the original clip in the region of the subclip.

                                                    1 person found this helpful
                                                    • 25. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                      jamesm60817151 Level 1

                                                      I just watched the video about the updated Subclip functionality: Subclip Workflows in Adobe Premiere Pro - YouTube

                                                       

                                                      Thank you so much Adobe for listening to our feedback and fixing how subclips work in Premiere!  This makes my life so much easier.

                                                      • 26. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                        Martinnel Level 1

                                                        James,

                                                         

                                                        I just watched the video you linked. It looks to me like they only fixed one of the two critical issues you raised. I haven't updated yet so I can't confirm, but this video did not display the ability to, "…MATCH FRAME on a Subclip in the Timeline and have the entire original master clip loaded into the Source monitor."

                                                         

                                                        You, I and several other people on this thread still see this as a glaring omission. Just removing the subclip parameters is not a satisfactory substitute.

                                                         

                                                        Martin

                                                        1 person found this helpful
                                                        • 27. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                          jamesm60817151 Level 1

                                                          This does fix the Match Frame issue as well, as far as I'm concerned, since now all your subclips can contain the entire media. So, simply Match Frame on such an unrestricted subclip, and you'll get the full master clip.

                                                          • 28. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                            Martinnel Level 1

                                                            In that case, I can't wait to update.

                                                             

                                                            Thanks,

                                                             

                                                            Martin

                                                            • 29. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                              jamesm60817151 Level 1

                                                              I spoke too soon. Oops.

                                                               

                                                              Adobe's changes kinda fix the Match Frame issue as well. But they require an extra step or two which is really puzzling.  You have to match frame to load the subclip in the source monitor and then right-click and select Edit Subclip and then check Convert to Master clip in the window that appears.

                                                               

                                                              What!??

                                                               

                                                              The fact that we have to make these extra steps does not make sense. Someone was sleeping at the wheel here.

                                                               

                                                              If you create an *unrestricted* subclip and can put it in the Timeline and drag the heads and tails to reveal its master clip, then match-framing into this clip should of course load the *entire* clip in the source monitor.  But, no: currently, when you press Match Frame on an an unrestricted subclip in the Timeline, Adobe loads a *restricted* subclip in the Source monitor.  There's some logical dissonance here Adobe!

                                                               

                                                              Again, you have to take those extra steps to then convert the subclip to a master clip.  [headsmack]

                                                               

                                                              But, at least they fixed it for the most part.

                                                              1 person found this helpful
                                                              • 30. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                Martinnel Level 1

                                                                What happens if, after you load the subclip in the source monitor, you hit Match Frame again? If that brought you to the original master clip, that would be what I would want.

                                                                 

                                                                Martin

                                                                • 31. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                  SF Bay Video Creative Level 1

                                                                  this was a no-brainer issue in Avid 20 years ago.  I can't tell you how disappointed I am that this is not available in Premiere.  It's absolutely fundamental to anyone with basic skill at storytelling editing.  I'm at the beginning of a feature doc and considering dumping Premiere to go back to Avid.  Shocking beyond belief.  Is Premiere for editors, or is it designed for amateurs who like being guinea pigs for undeveloped software.?   FLABBERGASTING.

                                                                  • 32. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                    jamesm60817151 Level 1

                                                                    Martin, I tried match-framing an *unrestricted* subclip that was in the Timeline. Then I match-framed it in the source monitor, but that didn't work. You still have to go through those steps of Edit Subclip and Convert Master Clip. It takes 5 seconds but it's a bit of a pain.

                                                                     

                                                                    SF Bay Video Creative - Keep in mind, Adobe did listen to the subclip-related feature requests and implemented some great changes here. Is there room for improvement? Sure. But it seems like an easy function to tweak.

                                                                    • 33. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                      Martinnel Level 1

                                                                      See and James, at the risk of sounding overly demanding, I really don't think that's good enough. I don't want to lose the integrity of the subclip simply because I want to find what lays beyond. Several times a day this is a problem for me.

                                                                       

                                                                      Martin

                                                                      1 person found this helpful
                                                                      • 34. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                        oc1kev Level 1

                                                                        THANK you for this thread. I had been banging my head against the wall trying to figure out how to Match Frame the clips I edited into my timeline using subclips.. back to the original master clip source files.  Finally, I can rest easy knowing that I was banging my head for no reason as there is no way to directly link back to your original master clips directly from the Subclips edited into your timeline.  It is possible, but it's a big pain in the tookas.  If you are banging your head too... you may officially stop... you may now begin banging your head for other reasons.

                                                                         

                                                                        Luckily I only have 56 individual clips to replace with the same footage from the source file.

                                                                         

                                                                        My workflow for this is:

                                                                        1) Click-Select the segment in my timeline using the selection tool

                                                                        2) If the segment has effects in it, Control+C (Copy) to the Clipboard.

                                                                        3) Mark in-out the clip on my timeline

                                                                        4) Move to the 1st frame of that individual marked clip.

                                                                        5) Match Frame to the Subclip

                                                                        6) Right-Click on the Subclip in the Source Monitor

                                                                        7) Scroll down to EDIT SUBCLIP

                                                                        8) Check the box "CONVERT TO MASTER CLIP"

                                                                        9) Click "OK"

                                                                        10) Clear any extraneous IN/OUT points on this newly converted Master Clip.

                                                                        11)  Set a new IN-POINT in the newly created master clip .. based on my playhead position (provided I have not moved it)

                                                                        12) Overwrite this newly created master clip into my existing timeline.

                                                                        13) Right click on newly edited segment in my timeline, to activate the menu

                                                                        14) Scroll to "Scale to Frame Size" (<-- specific to my own need)

                                                                        15) If the clip has effects in it, Right-Click and select from the pulldown menu

                                                                        16) Navigate to "Paste Attributes"

                                                                        17) Click "OK"

                                                                         

                                                                        Wash, Rinse, Repeat.... 56 times.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Just for the record, on my avid, this same process is completed with one mouse-click and two keyboard clicks.

                                                                        1) Click the timeline at the position play-head over desired segment-clip in timeline. (use eyes to make sure desired track is enabled)

                                                                        2) select keyboard shortcut: Alt+Matchframe (which match-frames without setting an in-point)

                                                                        3) select keyboard shortcut: Replace Edit.

                                                                        Done.  (I don't even use IN-POINTS!!!!)

                                                                        This is just a reference for the ease of which such a procedure is done elsewhere, in another professional editing application

                                                                        (I would say I don't do this EVERY day... but I do perform this often enough to designate keyboard shortcuts for it, and when i DO need to do it, it is usually something I am required to do very swiftly because Clients or VP's are in the chair(s) next to me.)

                                                                         

                                                                        Please don't take this as an AVID vs PrPro thread, I am just listing the difference between the two workflows.

                                                                         

                                                                        Hopefully others who find this will have a workflow until this very core feature has been added to PrPro.

                                                                         

                                                                        In the meantime, I am seriously rethinking even using Subclips again, except for a very specific purpose, that probably won't include using subclips as editable source... as in the above provided video link on Subclips... There is no WRONG way to do things.. there are however inefficient ways to do things, and using subclips (although not wrong) is very inefficient should you require to match back to the source masterclip.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        [edited to include more spelling and grammar errors]

                                                                        1 person found this helpful
                                                                        • 35. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                          Martinnel Level 1

                                                                          Thanks for that Kevin. Again, without making this an Avid versus Premiere thing (but to elaborate on what should be a simple process, depending on why you need to reference the original clip), you might not even need two mouse-clips in "another professional editing application." To trim beyond the subclip's established ending in Avid, one simply goes into trim mode and trims, if one so desires, all the way to the full duration of the original master clip. And if you simply want to find what else was in the original master clip, you just use the keyboard shortcut for match frame from the timeline to put the subclip in the source monitor and then the same shortcut again (oops, that is two mouse-clicks) to go bring up the original full master clip. The subclip still exists in all its integrity and with all its relationships intact and no new unnecessary master clips or subclips are created. If the subclip is in the source monitor already rather than the timeline, you only have to click matchframe once.

                                                                           

                                                                          Kevin showed above how, in Avid, to replace a subclip in a timeline with the original master clip. What he chose not to mention (my guess in the well-mannered name of not making this a "this versus that" argument—I'm not as well mannered) is he would never have need to replace the subclip with the master clip in the timeline.

                                                                           

                                                                          So much quicker to do than to explain. And I do probably do this at least once every time I sit down to work.

                                                                           

                                                                          Martin

                                                                          • 36. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                            SF Bay Video Creative Level 1

                                                                            Thank you!  Your reply really says it all.  Not sure about the Big Brother fear of avoiding Avid vs Premiere Pro - did I miss the memo? 

                                                                             

                                                                            Clearly, people are asking for a feature they've enjoyed for many many years on Avid, but not in the name of steering people away from using PPro, but in fact, because they want to continue on PPro and are giving Adobe the prompt:  get in there and COMPETE for customer loyalty through product improvement.  This business of unrestricting and converting subclips is an inelegant patch at best.

                                                                             

                                                                            I'm hoping the squeaky wheel gets the grease here.  I've worked with roomfuls of clients as an editor since '92, and I consider this Editing 101 material.

                                                                             

                                                                            And so I kindly ask again for a straight from subclip-to-@ source clip solution as I faithfully pay my $49.99 a month membership.

                                                                            • 37. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                                              Hi 4bbhor3en,

                                                                              I filed an internal feature request today and referenced this forum post, the length of time it's been up, and the page views. Everyone on the post should file a bug. The more bugs we have written up, the better chance we have at seeing it implemented.

                                                                               

                                                                              I wrote the bug up as "No option to reveal source instead of subclip when using Match Frame." I am personally advocating for this feature because I see it as one of the necessary missing functions in this software.

                                                                               

                                                                              Thanks everyone for your support and feedback on this issue.

                                                                               

                                                                              Regards,
                                                                              Kevin

                                                                              • 38. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                                SF Bay Video Creative Level 1

                                                                                Best news I've heard today, Kevin - thanks!  Anyway to be notified when the feature has become implemented?

                                                                                • 39. Re: Match Frame for Subclips
                                                                                  Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                                                  Sorry, no. You'll just have to look for it in the release notes. Nice idea, though!

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Kevin