28 Replies Latest reply on Aug 25, 2015 3:11 AM by MarkWeiss

    CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7

    yash-lucid Level 1

      Hello. Please can someone explain the basics of Dual Xeon processors vs i7 processors for Premiere Pro CS6 editing and After Effects CS6 graphics.

       

      If you were to compare a Dual Xeon setup that costs the same as an i7 setup, which would be better for the above and why? Thanks in advance

        • 1. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I can't answer that, but I can say to go to the CS5 Benchmark http://ppbm5.com/ to review the results to see what people are using

          • 2. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            If you were to compare a Dual Xeon setup that costs the same as an i7 setup, which would be better for the above and why?

             

            That is impossible.  Even dual Xeon i5-2620 CPU's cost way more than an i7-3930K (€ 720 versus € 515), dual Xeon motherboards are almost twice as expensive as single CPU 2011 boards, the memory for Xeon boards can be more expensive, etc. Dual E5-5620 systems are around 2.5 to 2.8 times slower than the fastest i7-3930K despite the higher cost, mainly because they can not be reasonably overclocked and their very low clock speed holds them back. If you spend around 20K on a dual Xeon system, it may come close to the fastest single i7-3930K system that costs only a fraction.

            • 3. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
              yash-lucid Level 1

              You are indeed, a legend Harm. Thanks again

              • 4. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                Jim_Simon Level 9

                I wonder...can you put two 3930's into a board like this?

                 

                http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131886

                • 5. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                  RjL190365 Level 4

                  Sorry, Jim, but all desktop i7 CPUs (yes, even including the 3930K and 3960X) are only uniprocessor capable. Thus, only one such CPU per board.

                  • 6. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                    Alex - DV411 Level 2

                    If you spend around 20K on a dual Xeon system, it may come close to the fastest single i7-3930K system that costs only a fraction.

                    1. The fastest dual Xeon system is around $12K from Tier 1 (HP, Dell, Lenovo), much less from COTS components.
                      (Please don't quote me HP Direct prices again - few folks buy there unless they get at least 20% off.)
                    2. When you say "it may come close", do you mean in PPBM scores only, or in any other benchmarks? You don't by any chance think that PPBM is uniquitous and adequately reflects Premiere Pro workflows?  In other words, could you justify your statements by means other than PPBM?
                    3. You can't directly compare McLaren (or Lotus) and Kia on a price either. To each his own.  Purely on tangible benefits, though: dual Xeons offer more memory, better protected and stable memory, higher memory bandwidth, higher I/O bandwidth, higher computational performance. For a price, of course.

                     

                    Core i7 systems are the best BFTB (value, i.e. performance on a dollar), but doesn't mean dual Xeons are somehow inferior to i7.

                     

                    Harm, would it be a good time to stop knocking down platforms you don't like?

                    • 7. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                      Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                      Alex Gerulaitis wrote:

                       

                      1. ......You don't by any chance think that PPBM is uniquitous and adequately reflects Premiere Pro workflows?  In other words, could you justify your statements by means other than PPBM?

                      Please define uniquitous

                      • 8. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                        Alex - DV411 Level 2

                        Please define uniquitous

                        A happy marriage between unique and ubiquitous. I meant the latter of course.

                        • 9. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                          lasvideo Level 4

                          I bought my HP Z820 dual Xeon system  because it was able to allow me to get better performance from Red and other large format media. It also has 32 hyperthreads which is an asset for many other functions in the software I use which include Adobe CS6 (the entire suite), Syntheyes, Mocha and 3D apps (Blender). As we see the development of more 2K and 4K cameras, folks using the Mercury Playback Engine will be requiring this kind of power to work with their clients media.

                           

                          It is a mistake to assume that  people using Adobe apps are just using the functions that are evaluated in the PPBM. Its is valid for a certain group, but especially these days, folks that JUST use Premiere is being eclipsed by people like me that use it in tandem with many other apps that demand and thrive on systems like mine.

                           

                          Yes, my system did cost about $10,000 just for the computer. But over my career I have worked in edit bays (years ago) that cost $1.5 million. And the system I have now is more powerful and can do way more than the expensive one did. If you are an amateur or just dabbling of course that seems like a lot of money. But as someone making a living for 30 years as an editor, its really not that much in the scheme of things.

                           

                          http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com

                          http://www.youtube.com/user/lasvideo

                          • 10. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                            hbernhard Level 1

                            The 10-15k for a workstation is the very last priorty/consequence of your professional video/multimedia setup. If you are already in 4K business with Red/Arri/etc. this could be mandatory, in 2K/AVCHD you can survive with the i7 platform (at least till the point where you have earned from customer paid projects the respective amount )

                            Good luck

                            • 11. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                              Jim_Simon Level 9

                              all desktop i7 CPUs are only uniprocessor capable.

                               

                              Disappointing.

                              • 14. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                yinkadesigncode Level 1

                                well sir while i respect ur views, i disagree with just the BFTB argument. many editors here do not just use premier pro. we use cinema 4d, after effects and other high multitasking programs. we have a HP Z820 with the evga gtx 680 clasified and the dual 2687w and 64gig ram the hp spanks a manually built 3930k 2@4.2ghz with same graphic card and 64gig ram by a large margin. the hp has a red rocket, also so we mainly do epic 5k 5;1 footage. so if u have the clients, BFTB is no question epically wehen you have to edit, and grade a music video within 24hrs.

                                one more thing while is hp the best looking computer case you can get. those comercial cases are for gamers with ther transformer kind of looks too childish. dat can be a big factor for people.

                                • 15. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                  RjL190365 Level 4

                                  Here is the primary reason for that:

                                   

                                  Most of those programs that you mentioned favor more cores/threads over higher CPU clock speeds to begin with. (Or put it conversely, Premiere Pro does not take full advantage of more than a uniprocessor PC based on a single multi-core, multi-threaded, highly-clocked CPU.)

                                  • 16. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                    Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                    RjL190365 wrote:

                                     

                                    (Or put it conversely, Premiere Pro does not take full advantage of more than a uniprocessor PC based on a single multi-core, multi-threaded, highly-clocked CPU.)

                                    Proof?

                                    • 17. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                      RjL190365 Level 4

                                      I can't provide conclusive evidence given that there aren't enough Xeon E5 CPU-based PCs on the PPBM5 list to judge. However, while it is a good test for commonly used HD consumer resolutions, it does not tell you how it will perform with 4K material.

                                      • 18. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                        JCschild Level 3

                                        thats easy i can just imagine how slow a say 2.4GHz Xeons system would be

                                         

                                         

                                        Video material - AVCHD 1080P 24 Frame Each Cut to 30 minutes of material

                                        Export Codec - H264 HDTV 1080P 24 Preset Default

                                        4 Effects per Layer - Fast Color Corrector, Brightness & Contrast, Video Limiter, Sharpen

                                        Each Layer Scaled to 50% for 4 frame PinP view.

                                         

                                        Ivy Bridge 3770 @ 4.7GHz

                                        16GB DDR3 1600

                                        4x 1TB 32Meg Cache Drives. (2 sets raid 0)

                                        680GTX 2GB video card

                                        Adobe CS6

                                        3 Layer - 28:05

                                        4 layer - 33:19

                                         

                                        3930K @ 3.2 GHz (stock)

                                        32GB DDR3 1600

                                        4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives.

                                        670GTX 4GB video card

                                        Adobe CS6

                                        3 Layer - 30:12

                                        4 layer - 37:00

                                         

                                        3930K @ 4.5GHz

                                        32GB DDR3 1600

                                        4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives.

                                        670GTX 4GB video card

                                        Adobe CS6

                                        3 Layer - 25:59

                                        4 layer - 31:05 <---- winner by far.

                                         

                                        2X Xeon E5 2687 @3.1

                                        32GB DDR3 1600

                                        4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives Raid 10

                                        670GTX 4GB video card

                                        Adobe CS6.02

                                        3 Layer - 31:15

                                        4 layer - 38:43

                                         

                                        Note* the slowest performer in THIS test is the DUAL Xeon. this is more about GHZ than core count with this work flow even the Ivy @ 4.7GHz beat the stock 3930k

                                        cant imagine how slow a single Xeon would be... this is indicitive of the average workfow for most in Premiere.

                                         

                                        Next up Red 4K where the Xeons shine.. we didnt bother with the Ivy system.

                                         

                                        2X Xeon E5 2687 @3.1

                                        32GB DDR3 1600

                                        4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives Raid 10

                                        670GTX 4GB video card

                                        Adobe CS6.02

                                        Red 4K to DPX 4096 x 2048 24p Full Range (max bit depth)

                                        3 Layer - 8:13

                                        4 layer - 11:52

                                         

                                         

                                        3930K @ 3.2 GHz (stock)

                                        32GB DDR3 1600

                                        4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives.

                                        670GTX 4GB video card

                                         

                                        Red 4K to DPX 4096 x 2048 24p Full Range (max bit depth)

                                        3 Layer - 11:23

                                        4 layer - 13:55

                                         

                                        3930K @ 4.5GHz

                                        32GB DDR3 1600

                                        4x 1TB 64Meg Cache Drives.

                                        670GTX 4GB video card

                                         

                                        Red 4K to DPX 4096 x 2048 24p Full Range (max bit depth)

                                        3 Layer - 9:49

                                        4 layer - 11:53 OH WAIT A TIE with the Xeons..

                                         

                                        We feel there is a place for dual Xeons and red 4K tpe codecs or heavy animation is it..

                                        • 19. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                          lasvideo Level 4

                                          SC- "We feel there is a place for dual Xeons and red 4K tpe codecs or heavy animation is it.."

                                           

                                          Amen!

                                          • 20. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                            yinkadesigncode Level 1

                                            Like I said not everybody with a dual processor setup is just restricted to premier most ppl with dat setup use other softwares.

                                            • 21. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                              Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                              I can't provide conclusive evidence given that there aren't enough Xeon E5 CPU-based PCs on the PPBM5 list to judge.

                                              This assumes PPBM5 results (or those of any set of fixed benchmarks) are directly correlated to how Premiere Pro will perform in a variety of workflows.

                                               

                                              This is like asking a heavyweight champion to run a 40 mile marathon and assume most marathon runners will be as slow.

                                               

                                              That's a big assumption to ride, which in turn will require some proving to do.  As Scott says, there are Pr workflows that do benefit from dual Xeon configurations - and that doesn't even cover the other benefits of dual Xeon platforms that I mentioned above.

                                              • 22. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                                Jim_Simon Level 9

                                                 

                                                Red 4K to DPX 4096 x 2048 24p Full Range (max bit depth)

                                                 

                                                What...no 4K to deliverable tests?  No Blu-ray or MXF OP1a?

                                                 

                                                It'd be interesting to see the results using the same export setting for both media types.  It would have been more telling.

                                                • 23. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 9

                                                  4 layer - 11:53 OH WAIT A TIE with the Xeons..

                                                   

                                                  A tie in performance, but when you look at the price difference...

                                                  • 24. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                    I used DPX because that is the most common export out of Premiere or AE when taking Red to another application since exporting Red is not an option. Also DPX is commonly used as the Master when finishing so it seemed to be the most common workflow. Since the same export settings were used on all of the platforms tested, I don't believe there was a need to export as H264 like the AVCHD testing.


                                                    Eric

                                                    ADK

                                                    • 25. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                                      vrteam

                                                      I fully support your question regarding dual zeon vs i7 systems!  I have been weighing this for some time.

                                                       

                                                      I am only editing DSLR (5dm2) footage at the moment on this:

                                                      Very Old Dell XPS 410 with a few upgrades

                                                      Core2 Quad core Q6600

                                                      8gb Corsair Ram

                                                      Corsair HX650 PSU

                                                      Nvidia Quadro 4000 GPU

                                                      Samsung 830 256gb SSD (for OS and Apps)

                                                      Raid 0 Barracudas 7200rpm XT's w/64mb cache (2tb x2-sata2)

                                                      Raid 0 Barracudas 7200rpm w/16mb cache (2x500gb-sata2)

                                                      Various external storage drives in USB 2.0, eSata

                                                       

                                                      I have been looking at purchasing a new editing machine to get with the times, but really want to buy something that will be 4k RAW ready.  From several other sources online, the dual Xeon platforms seem like the way to go.  I have been looking at the ASUS Z9PE-D8 and Xeon E5 2620's.  However, I would prefer a motherboard that offers more than 64GB of ram space.  Also eyeing the new Corsair Obsidian 900d full tower case and AX1200 PSU.

                                                       

                                                      I would like to take my current Samsung 830 256gb SSD, 2 Barracuda Xt's (sata III capable), Nvidia Quadro 4000 to the new system.  I  may or may not have a use for the Barracuda 500gb's (possibly storage). 

                                                       

                                                      I also want to add an Nvidia tesla C2075 6GB to my Quadro 4000, but the price is astronomical at the moment. This would get my GPU into the "Maximus" realm. (http://www.nvidia.com/object/maximus.html)

                                                       

                                                      I am waiting to see how things evolve before sinking the big money into all of this.  In the mean time, I will be chugging along with my old, old system.  Pity me!

                                                      • 26. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 9

                                                        I don't believe there was a need to export as H264 like the AVCHD testing.

                                                         

                                                        Still would have been interesting to see those results, I think.  Eliminating variables and such.  (Same export setting for all tests, regardless of system or source media.)

                                                        • 27. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                                          JCschild Level 3

                                                          we did include the Xeon for AVC to H264

                                                          • 28. Re: CPU: Dual Xeon vs i7
                                                            MarkWeiss Level 1

                                                            I think Harm is onto something here about dual Xeons not being as fast for Premiere as a single i7. My experience has been that my old Core2Quad runs CS6 smoothly, reliably and with no quirks. Whereas on the dual Xeon system with 128GB of RAM and a Titan X GPU, it's erratic, drops frames, sometimes speeds up by itself so it's playing like fast forward 8X, and then stops. I can't get it to play more than 4 minutes without either stopping or speeding up and then stopping.

                                                            Of course my decision to go with a dual Xeon weighed in the fact that I also do a fair amount of 3D CG and for that it is splendid.

                                                            Premiere just doesn't seem to be multithread aware, or it doesn't efficiently use more than four threads. Even UI stuff like launching the Media Encoder window (control-M) takes longer on the new machine than it does on the old Core2Quad.

                                                            I'm convinced that the E5-2630 v3 isn't enough for Premiere. I should have gotten a bigger mortgage and gone with the 2699 CPUs. And I thought modern CPUs could execute more instructions per clock than old CPUs. I guess that isn't true after all.

                                                            To edit 4K in Premiere, it seems you need the highest end i7 money can buy, cryogenically cooled and overclocked to 6GHz.