8 Replies Latest reply on Jan 12, 2013 11:57 PM by TᴀW

    I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr

    Quindaro Level 1

      I'm setting a book in CS6 and I have always liked Minion Pro. However, the collision of T and h in both headline and body font is about to turn me hair-tearing crazy. 

       

      Of course, it's only starting to do this now that I have 250 pages of type laid out and I am taking the cumulative of page after page of these guys knocking heads.

       

      I have read this article about writing scripts to referee kerning issues between different styles and even fonts.  But that's too much for me.  And yet, there must be 100 or more occurrences of T + h in my document — a lot of manual editing.

       

      Is there a simpler way?  I'm not a type guy, so it may be that there is a font very much like Minion which is better behaved, and that might be my quickest fix. Any suggestions welcomed.

        • 1. Re: I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Well that's the way to deal with it if you need custom kerning. It really isn't all that complicated.

           

          But on another note, there should be a Th ligature, and it would be on by default. Perhaps you are objecting to that and should turn off ligatures?

          • 2. Re: I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr
            Quindaro Level 1

            Not complicated — just tedious!

             

            But you're right, Peter ... it IS a ligature.  I have kerned that thing to -50 and it still doesn't look like it does with Ligatures on.

             

            I am indeed objecting to it ... so now the question is, should I trust my reaction to this, or the type designer?

             

            I guess this is why we do prepub printings!

            • 3. Re: I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr
              John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              In one of my currrent jobs, there's a bunch of legal copy that gets set as small as possible. At sub-6-point sizes, the output often exhibits collisions between certain pairs, and in that sea of tiny, light-legged glyphs,  they stand out like ink smudges.  I set up a Character Style  with nothing in it but a positive tracking value and then use GREP Styles nested in the Paragraph Style to apply it to identified problem pairs. Then I just increase the tracking value in the Character style in small incremements until the pairs open up acceptably.  Looks like your problem could be a candidate for this kind of treatment.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                Shouldn't be tedious at all. Add a GREP style to your paragraph styles. You want to look for Th so enter that in the Apply to field. In the style field click the dropdown and select New Character Style and in the dialog that comes up go to Basic Character Formats, then click the Ligatures checkbox twice to clear it (it should be white when you are done). Save the character style as No Ligatures and you're done. Add the GREP style to each of the paragraph styles that need it. You only need to add it to the base style if you've based one style on another.

                 

                The other option is to turn of ligtures entirely, but that's going to probably introduce new collisions in the fi/fl combinations. You can do that in the paragraph styles by going to the Basic Character Formatting  section and just unchecking ligatures.

                • 5. Re: I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr
                  Quindaro Level 1

                  Hey thanks to both of you.  I had read about kerning and grep (why do we all-cap that?) but it wasn't until now in that I understood exactly what you could do in this instance.

                  • 6. Re: I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr
                    MW Design Level 4

                    All caps because GREP is an acronym like PC, WYSIWYG, etc.

                     

                    Mike "A slave to convention"

                    • 7. Re: I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      GREP is an acronym for General Regular Expression Parser or some such....

                       

                      Looking at the lowercase ffi combo in Minion pro, if you don't like the Th ligature, you'll probably be just as happy turnin off ligatures altogether, and that doesn't require GREP at all.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: I need just ONE change in a kerning table...grrrrr
                        TᴀW Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Adobe have made a "funny" decision in the their fonts: They have

                        included the "Th" as part of the basic ligatures, whereas really it

                        should be part of the "discretionary" ligatures set. It comes from a

                        different tradition to the standard f-ligatures, and will bother some

                        readers. It bothers me. It bother the OP.

                         

                        So I think the OP is quite right in wanting to discard the Th ligature,

                        but in keeping the other standard ligatures.

                         

                        I always try to eliminate it. But instead of creating a GREP style for

                        each of the 38 paragraph styles or so per book, I simply do a search and

                        replace, creating local overrides:

                         

                        (1) search for "Th" (case-sensitive)

                        (2) replace with "no ligatures"

                         

                        Somebody who knows how to use an open-type font editor (without

                        destroying the font) could simply change the category of Th within the

                        font itself to be a discretionary lig., as Adobe should have done in the

                        first place.

                         

                        Ariel