24 Replies Latest reply on Jan 18, 2013 10:53 AM by Hudechrome

    What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?

    Noel Carboni Level 8

      I know that a number of things have changed, but being a PC/Windows user I can't say for sure because there have been zero updates since 13.0.1.

       

      Can we assume that 13.0.2, 13.0.3, and 13.0.4 have at least some bugfixes that a PC user might need/want?

       

      I fully understand not wanting to distribute 13.0.2 and 13.0.3 for PC users, given the debacle with licensing.  Those of us not recipients of these updates have dodged all those problems.  For that, I for one thank whomever chose to be conservative with the release process.

       

      But assuming 13.0.4 actually fixes the activation/licensing problems, might PC users expect an update?

       

      Yes, I realize that we lucky PC users still have the View - Print Size function in Photoshop CS6 as a result of being left out of all this fun.

       

      -Noel

        • 1. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
          conroy Level 5

          Good luck getting some info, Noel. Adobe won't tell me anything about the fixes and changes since 13.0.1. A most peculiar way to behave for a company providing software to professionals. Maybe Adobe themselves don't know what they've done to the software.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
            Noel Carboni Level 8

            About the time I made the first update of my first plug-in product, I met with my chief engineer (a man with some 40 years experience in high tech, and sharp as a tack), and we discussed how much to expose in our release notes. 

             

            We came to the considered conclusion that everything - every single thing that we changed - should have some mention in the release notes, even if maybe candied up a bit with marketing spin.  For example, the introduction of a new version of a color-management library that had had work to improve robustness could be stated as "Stability enhancements in the color-management subsystem, to better handle poorly formed color profiles".

             

            That way, a professional user couldn't be blindsided by something that changed its behavior, and might even understand enough to solve his/her own problem in a pinch.

             

            Somewhere along the path, big companies alwys seem to want to start hiding information from their customers, as though doing so decreases support cost or something. 

             

            Or maybe it's lawyers who tell them "never admit you made a mistake". 

             

            Whatever the motivation, it's ridiculous.  If Adobe fixes 100 bugs, we should see a line item about each and every one.  It might just be that we've learned to avoid doing something we just know breaks it, doing a workaround, and will never try the feature again unless we have a reason to believe it's working.

             

            -Noel

            • 3. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
              JJMack Most Valuable Participant

              Noel Adobe has not been doing a good job maintaining their software for the last few releases of Photoshop. CS6 the buggiest version of Photoshop ever and it looks like this trend is continuing into their cloud environment.  Adobe seems to be adding even more bugs into their code every-time they update the cloud.  How long will the cloud users put up with this conduct. 

               

              It may be better to leave the cloud and only update to a new release of Photoshop when one test that a New Photoshop release trial download will do the job the need to get done.   Lately New releases of Photoshop have not been adding any new function that I would consider must have features or function. 

               

              ACR now is quite mature I don't know how much better it can be made. The only reason I upgraded from CS3 was for improvement in ACR in CS5 and CS6.  CS6 was unusable for my use for the first five months that is how long it took Adobe to fix 56 major core problems in the CS6 release.  Many other bugs have not been address and bit my code.

               

              If corporation with volume licence start demanding better support Adobe may have to consider developing code that works. 

               

              Right now Adobe only gives users a  "Limited Warranty Except as otherwise stated in a separate agreement between Adobe and a Software licensee, Adobe warrants to the individual or entity that first purchases a license for the Software for use pursuant to the terms of this agreement that the Software will perform substantially in accordance with the corresponding user manual for the Software for the shorter period of (a) the ninety (90) day period or (b) License Term following receipt of the Software (“Warranty Period”) when used on the Compatible Computer. Non-substantial variation of performance from the user manual does not establish a warranty right. This limited warranty does not apply to the following ..... etc"  Right now Adobe documentation and manuals are is such bad shape this Warranty is not worth the paper its printed on.  Everyone who bought CS6 when it first was release would be entitled to their money it took Adobe 150 days  to come out with an initial fix IMO.

              • 4. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                conroy Level 5

                 

                Noel Carboni wrote:

                 

                We came to the considered conclusion that everything - every single thing that we changed - should have some mention in the release notes, even if maybe candied up a bit with marketing spin

                 

                [...]

                 

                That way, a professional user couldn't be blindsided by something that changed its behavior, and might even understand enough to solve his/her own problem in a pinch.

                 

                [...]

                 

                Whatever the motivation, it's ridiculous.  If Adobe fixes 100 bugs, we should see a line item about each and every one.  It might just be that we've learned to avoid doing something we just know breaks it, doing a workaround, and will never try the feature again unless we have a reason to believe it's working.

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                Exactly! I made these very points on 23rd Dec in thread: 13.0.3 Release Notes - where?

                 

                 

                Here's a couple of links to the kind of release notes that we should get with Photoshop updates:

                 

                Update from CINEMA 4D R14.014/R14.025 to R14.034

                 

                Autodesk Maya 2012 Service Pack 2

                • 5. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                  JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                  Adobe can not document what they now have and you want them to document everything down to every line item. Are you joking?  I would be happy if they just fixed that bugs user took the time to find and document for Adobe.  Adobe support is the poorest I have seen from any software publisher I have delt with. Users have been complaining about Adobe support for years. Adobe is using Microsoft model keep change thing tell user thing are better, move support from site to site make phone call go to India point finger at others.  

                   

                  Adobe plain and simply needs to correct their bad conduct and be a little ethical.

                  • 6. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                    conroy Level 5

                    JJMack wrote:

                     

                    Adobe can not document what they now have and you want them to document everything down to every line item. Are you joking?

                     

                     

                    Of course I am not joking.

                     

                    Adobe surely has a list of fixes and changes. I'm asking for Adobe to pass that on to users, and not asking for something that doesn't already exist.

                    • 7. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                      JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                      I have been dealing with Adobe support for years. Yes they have an internal database they seem to keep for bug reports which they accept as real.that they keep private. They have moved bug reporting to Photoshop.com feedback a while so these days bugs reports are more open to the public then in the past. However Adobe does not acknowledge all the bug report that are real only some they also never commit to when a bug may be fixed. As I wrote Adobe support is the poorest support organization I have ever tried to work with its extremely frustrating. http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/problems/recent

                      I also find the search engine there to be very poor for it has no advance search options. Bridge, PSE annd LR bugs are also mixed in there...

                      • 8. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                        conroy Level 5

                        JJMack wrote:

                         

                        Yes they have an internal database they seem to keep for bug reports which they accept as real.that they keep private. They have moved bug reporting to Photoshop.com feedback a while so these days bugs reports are more open to the public then in the past.

                         

                        I am only asking for a list of fixed bugs, and not a list of reported bugs or a list of intended future fixes.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                          JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                          If a bug is fixed that end the problem I don't need to know there was a bug. However I do agree Adobe should publish a list of which bug are fixed. For me its more important to know if a bug has been reported or not so when I encounter a bug I can find out if I need to report it or not. The problem I have with the feedback bug report site is its to hard to search the bug reports for there is no advance search options so you get hit after hit that has nothing to do with the bug you have encountered.  Its very hard to find out if a bug has been report acknowledged or not. Adobe seem to want to sweep Photoshop bugs under a magic carpet so there out of view that is why the Photoshop.com feedback site surprised me bugs are more in the open these days. and you don't always have to call Adobe to find out if the bug you have encountered has been reported. The less you need to deal with Adobe support the better off you are....

                          • 10. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                            Level 5

                            conroy wrote:

                             

                            ...Adobe surely has a list of fixes and changes...

                             

                            I don't doubt that the Adobe Photoshop engineers do.  The problem is that there is an entirely separate Documentation Team on some planet in a distant galaxy.

                             

                            Over the years I have developed the distinct impression that the frustrated Photoshop engineers would like to wring the necks of all members of the Documentation and Installer teams.

                             

                            It has little to do with ethics and much to do with the nature of the grid-locked Adobe bureaucracy after the Macromedia merger fiasco.

                            • 11. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                              Hudechrome Level 2

                              56 major core problems. I am amazed at that number, especially because I don't recall any bug that rendered my use negligible. There are changes that really slow me down especially the damn crop tool taking more steps to accomplish a simple task. That's not a bug. That's an elephant. (No, elephants have more sense.) The up side of that is I am more circumspect about cropping.

                               

                              Considering all that, it is laughable to think of spending $$$ for faster hardware. So what if a filter set on a workstation takes 10% less time? Oh, goody! I can use that 0.55 sec time increment to attend to the crop tool!

                               

                              Yeah, right! (Insert smiley showing frustration and hair pulling!)

                               

                              But I agree about ACR. My big request is for a true history showing the tweaks already applied.

                               

                              (End of rant...for now)

                              • 12. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                Noel Carboni Level 8

                                JJMack wrote:

                                 

                                If a bug is fixed that end the problem I don't need to know there was a bug.

                                 

                                I'm going to assume you didn't think too hard before you wrote that.  Anyone who needs/wants to actively manage risk needs to know what's been modified!

                                 

                                Who knows, maybe we've been stumbling on a bug that Mac users already have fixed for them.  I thought you were all about wanting bugs fixed, JJ.

                                 

                                Since we now know the "loss of activation" bug has been fixed, I figure it might be nice to get the benefit of whatever other bugfixes have been made in 13.0.4.  Not that I personally really WANT to be without zoom to Print Size, or am fighting bugs to get things done, but it'd be nice if >>I<< could make the choice based on information.

                                 

                                But without knowing what the bugfixes are, Adobe may figure we don't know what we're missing and so it will be difficult to demand an update.

                                 

                                Those at Adobe who have been very conservative and who have decided not to roll out 13.0.2+ to PC users (and thus more than double the number of people experiencing the activation problem) may feel they have made the right decision, and given the recent quality issues it's hard to argue with that.

                                 

                                -Noel

                                • 13. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                  Hudechrome Level 2

                                  Adobe may figure we don't know what we're missing...

                                   

                                  IOW: What you don't know can't hurt you!

                                   

                                  ...and who have decided not to roll out 13.0.2+ to PC users

                                   

                                  Hmmm, does subscribing to the cloud negate our identity as to the platform version?

                                   

                                  I do agree as to the knowledge needs. It should be the user's choice.

                                  • 14. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                    Noel Carboni Level 8

                                    Hudechrome wrote:

                                     

                                    Hmmm, does subscribing to the cloud negate our identity as to the platform version?

                                     

                                    Sigh, I'm losing track...  Maybe it's just late...

                                     

                                    As a cloud subscriber with a PC did you get a 13.1.2?  In other words, what's the latest cloud version for PC users?

                                     

                                    If you're still on 13.1.0, then my sentence should have read:

                                     

                                    ...and who have decided not to roll out 13.0.2+ or 13.1.1+ to PC users...

                                     

                                    -Noel

                                    • 15. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                      JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                      Noel I'm all in for bug being fixed Adobe however does not seem to be. As you know I been trying to get bugs I reported over three years ago fixed all Adobe does is give me lip service.  All words no fix. Adobe has not even acknowledge the new bugs I have reported are bugs they just stay bugs a go unanswered on Photoshop.com feedback problems. That is Adobe support for you.

                                      • 16. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                        TLL... Level 3

                                        "There are changes that really slow me down especially the damn crop tool taking more steps to accomplish a simple task. That's not a bug. That's an elephant."

                                         

                                        Man you hit that one outta the ball park! Along with pointless UI changes and all kinds of bloat. I'm starting to 'enjoy' PS as much as I love working with Windows.

                                         

                                        What I see (as a user of Adobe products for 16+ years) is a company getting soooo big and influential in their industry that they (Adobe) simply cannot keep up with themselves. There are a number of serious issues with CS6 - serious enough that part of our workflows now include "do this with CS5 because it doesn't work in CS6". I mean what's the point of staying on this upgrade cycle if all you're gonna get out of it is a real, honest to goodness headache from it?

                                         

                                        And @home I really feel like an *ss for actually investing in Adobe's Master Collection, through three upgrades - 1000s of dollars, just to feel pissed on every time I hear "only available on the Creative Cloud".

                                         

                                        - End of my rant, for now...

                                        • 17. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                          Hudechrome Level 2

                                          The only reason I don't revert to CS5 is that by the time I open CS5 find the file and do the crop, save then revert to CS6 is that takes even more time.

                                           

                                          The absolute worst part of the crop tool is to not be able to see that an edge includes maybe one or two pixel widths of unwanted material not visible until abandoning the tool entirely. Then trying to recrop and eliminate that edge, Aaargh!

                                          • 18. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                            JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                            conroy wrote:

                                             

                                             

                                            Of course I am not joking.

                                            Of course your not none of us here are. However Adobe policy fixing  product and support them year after year has been and continues to be a poor.  I view it as a bad joke I don't expect to see that change for the better I just expect to see it change as Adobe likes change.

                                            • 19. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                              Noel Carboni Level 8

                                              Support policies, crop tool, licensing models...

                                               

                                              All I asked was a simple question.      I wonder what would accumulate if I created a thread titled "Post your least favorite things about Adobe here".

                                               

                                              I was hoping at the time that perhaps a list of things that had been changed had been provided (to someone with a Mac) through the updater.  Sigh.

                                               

                                              -Noel

                                              • 20. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                                TLL... Level 3

                                                "Post your least favorite things about Adobe here"

                                                 

                                                Dear Adobe

                                                • 21. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                                  Hudechrome Level 2

                                                  13.1.2 here through the cloud.

                                                   

                                                  It was late; according to my clock, it was 1:30 AM (approx) your time. And you do get up early.

                                                   

                                                  Speaking of getting up early, I'll be doing that also. I picked up another contract at Intel.

                                                  • 22. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                                    Hudechrome Level 2

                                                    I thought of calling it the crap tool but honoring the timelessness of crop in photography, I decided not to do so.

                                                    • 23. Re: What does 13.0.4 have that 13.0.1 lacks for PC users?
                                                      Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                      Hudechrome wrote:

                                                       

                                                      13.1.2 here through the cloud.

                                                       

                                                      Aha, so PC users who have purchased a perpetual license are the only ones who haven't gotten a recent update.  Perhaps we don't complain as much as Mac users and Cloud subscribers. 

                                                       

                                                      I take it you didn't get any more detail in the Updater release notes than anyone else.

                                                       

                                                      Anyone beside me think it's just a touch screwy how all this is going down?  13.0.1 for PC, 13.0.4 for Mac, 13.1.2 for PC, 13.1.2 for Mac.  I guess it makes sense; they do promise more updates through the Cloud subscription.

                                                       

                                                      -Noel