1 2 Previous Next 40 Replies Latest reply on Jan 21, 2013 5:48 PM by lasvideo

    New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations

    Lane Mc

      Hi guys - I'm looking at a new system for PP/AE CS6.  I'm working with a budget of around $1000 for the moment.  I found the following system for just over $900. I'd prefer not to build a system and would like to know you're thoughts/advice on this:

       

      Dell T3600

       

      • Processor: Intel Xeon Six Core E5-1650 Processor (3.2GHz,12M, Turbo+)
      • Genuine Windows 7 Professional
      • Dell Outlet Precision Fixed Workstation T3600, 635W Tower
      • 250GB, 7200 RPM 3.5 inch SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive
      • 500GB, 7200 RPM 3.5 inch SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive
      • 4GB, DDR3 RDIMM Memory, 1333MHz, ECC (2 x 2GB DIMMs)
      • 8X DVD +/- RW Optical Drive
      • 1 GB NVIDIA Quadro 2000,Dual Monitor,2DP and 1DVI

       

       

      I would be buying 16GB of ram to add on my own for about $90.  I'll also be buying an external raid in the following weeks for storage.  This is just a base system to get me started.  Thoughts?

        • 1. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
          Alex - DV411 Level 2

          Perfect, especially with the plan to upgrade memory and storage.  $900, seriously?  Nice system.

          • 2. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
            Lane Mc Level 1

            Thanks for the reply Alex.  Much appreciated!

            • 3. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
              Scott Chichelli Level 3

              Xeons are no different than their desktop counterparts in fact they are the exact same processor.

              the 1650 and 3930K are the same thing (other than the 3930k can over clock the 1650 can not..

               

              Quadro card is horrid for Adobe that is the weakest point and will need to be replaced immediately

               

              630w power is barely enough for 3 hard drives and a good video card

               

              ECC ram is ok but not as fast as non ecc

               

              Scott

              ADK

              • 4. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                Lane Mc Level 1

                Thanks Scott.

                I believe the T3600 only supports two internal drives, hence external storage.

                The memory ill be putting in will be non ecc.

                 

                I think I'll be fine selling the quadro at a decent price and buying a better card.  Do you think I'd see an issue replacing the quadro (500w) with the gtx570 (550w)?

                 

                Thanks,

                Lane

                • 5. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                  Lane Mc Level 1

                  Strike that - ill be looking at gtx660 (450w)

                  • 6. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Good move to the GTX 6xx series

                     

                    Bill Gehrke

                    • 7. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                      Alex - DV411 Level 2

                      Xeons are no different than their desktop counterparts in fact they are the exact same processor.

                      the 1650 and 3930K are the same thing (other than the 3930k can over clock the 1650 can not..

                      Scott, the die is the same, the processors aren't.  (Nissan (Infinity) 350z, M35 and GT-R start maybe with the same base engine, end up being quite different cars.)

                       

                      Didn't we go over this already?

                       

                      Xeon E5-1600 series: ECC, vPro, I/O virtualization, trusted execution, 375GB memory space.

                      Core i7: none of the above; 64GB memory space.

                      None if it may have much of an impact for Premiere Pro - but that doesn't make them "the same thing".

                      Quadro card is horrid for Adobe that is the weakest point and will need to be replaced immediately

                      Quadro 2000 is far from "horrid". Scott used to call Dells, HPs and ECC memory "waste of money", now he is a little more careful.

                       

                      Older tech, sure.  Slower in certain tasks - maybe, depends on your workflow.  To me, memory and storage come first.

                      • 8. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                        RjL190365 Level 4

                        Alex,

                         

                        I used to be like Scott. But as of right now, IMHO it all boils down to the material that one is working with. For example, a Quadro 2000 is an absolute waste of money if one is working with SD material or less than a certain number of layers of HDV or AVCHD material (like me currently), especially when there are faster-performing GPUs for such material for less money. However, if one needs a full 10-bit editing system (the GPU and the monitor must both be 10-bit; otherwise, the graphics system will default to 8-bit), even an otherwise mediocre-performing Quadro can equal or best a much-higher-performing GeForce. If one frequently works with 4K material or heavy animation, dual low-clock-speed Xeons can equal or surpass an i7 that's clocked 40 percent higher; otherwise, they can be a waste of money for more pedestrian video content.

                        • 9. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                          Scott Chichelli Level 3

                          Hey Alex,

                           

                          telling me there is difference in the Xeon and desktop is akin to correcting to my grammer. getting into serious anality.

                          for all intents with concern to this forum they are the same..

                          on a server forum might say differently.

                           

                          i still say HP, Dell and Quadros are very much a waste of money..

                          compared to what a well built custom system costs vs the higher priced but often lower speced dells/HPs.. kinda hard not to..

                          • 10. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                            Alex - DV411 Level 2

                            ...a Quadro 2000 is an absolute waste of money if...

                            Even with those "if" qualifyers, there could other factors:

                            • Quadros sold with HP and Dell workstations are covered by the same NBD on-site warranty the whole system is. Important to some folks.
                            • Possible slight edge in reliability and stability may be enough to offset the performance edge - to some folks

                             

                            To me, phrases like "absolute waste of money" should be thrown around with extreme care - they're too absolute and intolerant to be used on a technical forum.

                            • 11. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                              Alex - DV411 Level 2

                              telling me there is difference in the Xeon and desktop is akin to correcting to my grammer. getting into serious anality.

                              for all intents with concern to this forum they are the same..

                              Speaking of grammar, that's where the English word "if" comes handy: if you don't need more than 64GB RAM, a more stable and reliable chipset, and other Xeon features, then these processors may be considered as "the same thing".  But this is supposed to be a technical forum, isn't it?  Shall we use technically correct statements then, so that we don't confuse folks that aren't as technical?

                              i still say HP, Dell and Quadros are very much a waste of money..

                              compared to what a well built custom system costs vs the higher priced but often lower speced dells/HPs.. kinda hard not to..

                              There are a lot of "ifs" here, again, and a very limited, narrow perspective that doesn't explain why a lot of professional editors still buy HP systems.

                               

                              When you call these systems a "waste of money", you offend them all summarily.  This isn't a good attitude, Scott, and I think, we went over this already, not once.

                              • 12. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                LOL

                                 

                                “”that doesn't explain why a lot of professional editors still buy HP systems.””

                                 

                                I get a lot of phone call saying “man I wish I had known about you before I bought from XXXX

                                 

                                Aside from the onsite warranty (which by the way we tried all 3 onsite companies (yes those who do dell, hp etc)

                                 

                                By far the worst nightmare I ever had, best one was a guy putting a screw driver thru the motherboard because he couldn’t figure out how to get the after market

                                 

                                Fan off. You do know they use local computer companies for this I worked for one.. and I did onsite and trust me I was pretty clueless back then

                                 

                                Not to mention they have absolutely no clue about the software or hardware for video/audio..

                                 

                                So past the onsite I cant think of a single reason why someone would by an HP/Dell etc IF (oops there is that word again) they knew they could get a custom built system

                                 

                                For less and better spec’ed as well as support for the software being used

                                 

                                But alas I digress and yeah this is getting old. How about you don’t bother posting after me when I say its useless or a waste of money so we can avoid this..

                                 

                                Scott

                                • 13. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                  Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                  I get a lot of phone call saying “man I wish I had known about you before I bought from XXXX

                                  You're saying, it's not because of your service, support and knowledge, but because you're using gaming COTS components for workstation-class systems, your clients love you?  Ouch.

                                  By far the worst nightmare I ever had

                                  By far the worst nightmare I've heard of was folks going the DIY or custom integrator route and being left with a non-functioning system either because the support wasn't there or because the integrator went out of business.  Saying it can't happen to you or your clients would be wildly optimistic.

                                  How about you don’t bother posting after me when I say its useless or a waste of money so we can avoid this..

                                  The more you guys from ADK use statements like "waste of money" and "useless" on competing platforms and products, the more damaging it is to ADK.  People aren't stupid. Feel free to knock yourself out.

                                  • 14. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                    Lane Mc Level 1

                                    For $917.. What could I buy that would compare with this system?

                                     

                                    The previous corporation I worked for had a credit line with Dell, so it was easy to get a Dell system.  They liked the warranty.  They liked the easy purchasing options and I always negotiated for the best prices.

                                     

                                    I never had to use the warranty and the system still runs fine (7 years later)

                                    I understand how ridiculous the markups are when you go beyond the base config. But for someone in my situation.. I don't really see how this could be bettered.

                                    • 15. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                      Hi Lane,

                                       

                                      For the price of that system its a good deal the processor alone is $600 I cant touch Dell HP in the sub 1500 price range

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Thanks

                                       

                                      Scott

                                      • 16. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                        Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                        Somehow alex I get the feeling if you didn’t sell HP you would have far less to say about this

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Thanks

                                         

                                        Scott Chichelli

                                         

                                        ADK Media Group LLC

                                         

                                        <http://facebook.com/adkmg> Like us on facebook!

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        859-635-5762

                                        • 17. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                          RjL190365 Level 4

                                          Sorry that I wasn't entirely clear. What I meant that it was a waste of money if I do not make use of (or never plan to use much of) certain features of the GPU or CPU. You just made it sound to me that I would have to spend $10,000 or more just for simple single-layer, short-duration LD (320x240) editing on a single PC. (I know that this may be wrong, but it just sounded so to me.)

                                          • 18. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                            Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                            Somehow alex I get the feeling if you didn’t sell HP you would have far less to say about this

                                            You've seen political debates.  Best tactic of a losing party: get personal, try to discredit your opponent.

                                             

                                            No DIY or custom system can touch HP Z820 on build, design and component quality.  It's the other way around on a price.  To each his own.

                                            • 19. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                              Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                              You just made it sound to me that I would have to spend $10,000 or more just for simple single-layer, short-duration LD (320x240) editing on a single PC. (I know that this may be wrong, but it just sounded so to me.)

                                              I certainly don't want to sound like this - my mantra has always been, don't use the most expensive tool, use the best tool for the job.  E.g. you don't want to use a bus to carry just one person.

                                               

                                              What (part of what I said) made it sound like that?

                                              • 20. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                Zoop studio Level 1

                                                And here we have a B2B pissing contest..

                                                Lane just asked if this Dell workstation was OK to get him started and he has a tight budget (1.000,-)

                                                I think we al agree the Dell is not OK because of the hardware changes to be made.

                                                 

                                                Better to start with small but right, extendable system: A  ''K'' cpu (3930 or 2600) with a mobo with enough sata and memory ports a 800 +watt psu, a large case etc..

                                                buy a GTS450 videocard for now ( 90,-) and when enough cash for an GTX670/680 sell the GTS450 for 50,-

                                                Start with  3 discs, 1 for OS/programs, 1 for footage, 1 for preview (wich you can use later for cache/review raid0) and buy the other ssd's/discs later..

                                                 

                                                I'm very happy with my 'snappy' €1250,- 5 discs 2600K system for 1.5 year (and if my clients allow me to, I would buy at ADK)

                                                • 21. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                  Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                  I think we al agree the Dell is not OK because of the hardware changes to be made.

                                                  Dell is OK and in fact awesome (for the price) as a base system.  To start working, all you need is more memory, maybe storage if one disk is not enough for the intended workflow.

                                                  a large case etc..

                                                  Why would you need a large case with external (and in many instances, with internal) storage?  This is just one of many statements casually thrown at unsuspecting folks with so much authority yet making so little practical sense.

                                                   

                                                  You don't even need a larger PSU to add a 660 Ti.

                                                   

                                                  The contest isn't just B2B, there is number of folks on this forum throwing "this is a waste of money" around at anything not to their liking, attempting to re-write Premiere Pro minimum requirements, making absolutist statements without a clue about specific workflow requirements.

                                                  • 22. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                    Zoop studio Level 1

                                                    The Dell is awesome for that price.

                                                    Use the same money to build a system that can  ''grow'' (with far better Premier pro or After Effects results) is even more

                                                    ''awesome''

                                                    Just look at the oppinions of users or look at benchmarts like http://ppbm5.com/DB-PPBM5-2.php

                                                     

                                                    I dont like endless discussions, I like to help each other so..

                                                     

                                                    Good luck & bye!

                                                    • 23. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                      RjL190365 Level 4

                                                      The problem with recommending a system based solely on benchmark results is that it does not necessarily reflect the predicted performance with anything above 1080i/p resolution. The PPBM5 test, while useful, is two-and-a-half years old now, and does not currently make use of anything above consumer HD resolution. With 4K material, things (and rankings) can go a bit wacky. In fact, I have seen instances where even the fastest of the i7 systems with GeForce GPUs choke (relatively speaking) on 4K content while otherwise poorly-performing dual Xeon CPU based systems with those same GPUs handle 4K content with relative ease.

                                                      • 24. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                        Alex,

                                                         

                                                        No DIY or custom system can touch HP Z820 on build, design and component quality.

                                                         

                                                        Make me an offer I can't refuse, based on your favorite HP Z820 tier 1 that suits my needs, and assume I am computer illiterate:

                                                         

                                                        Adobe applications: 60% PR, 15% AE, 10% PS, 10% AU and some use of ID, IL, DW, etc.

                                                         

                                                        Source material: HDV, GoPro, AVCHD, Canon 422 50 Mb MXF, Sony 422 50 Mb MXF (XDCAM) and RED 4K.

                                                         

                                                        Typical projects: up to 10-12 hours of source material from all of these sources, normally around 4-6 tracks, in some cases up to 10-12 tracks. Exports 90% to BD and DVD, and sometimes HDV tape, average duration around 60-90 minutes. Very occasionally to Vimeo or YT. Usually 4-5 projects underway at the same time.

                                                         

                                                        Plug-ins: RedGiant Magic Looks Suite, Pixelan, Surcode, etc.

                                                         

                                                        Requirements: At least three monitors to steer, one of them HDMI, two BD burners and a multi card reader for ingest.

                                                         

                                                        Please be specific in the components installed and the total price.

                                                         

                                                        Funny, but I don't take your word for it without some proof.

                                                        • 25. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                          Usually you are quick to respond, but now your response time is about as aggravating as this tier 1 HP site. I have seldom seen sites with such a slow refresh and such lacking information. Just wondering if that is typical of tier 1 companies and their agents.

                                                          • 26. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                            Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                            Make me an offer I can't refuse, based on your favorite HP Z820 tier 1 that suits my needs

                                                            How will that potential offer help you appreciate Z820's design and build quality?

                                                             

                                                            There're two types of clients who get Z-series from me: those who understand their benefits and those who trust my judgement.  Sometimes it's both.  You are clearly neither. What's the point?

                                                            Funny, but I don't take your word for it without some proof.

                                                            Don't think I ever asked you to.

                                                            • 27. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                              Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                              Harm Millaard wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Usually you are quick to respond, but now your response time is about as aggravating as this tier 1 HP site. I have seldom seen sites with such a slow refresh and such lacking information. Just wondering if that is typical of tier 1 companies and their agents.

                                                              Nice try Harm, two jabs in one sentence, two birds with one stone, except by a mile off.  You're not paying me for my time, are you?

                                                               

                                                              I do take time off sparring with you, to do actual work and spend time with the family. How about that for life's minimum requirements?

                                                              • 28. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                The design of the Z820 is pretty meager, with only 3 x 5.25" bays, that would be filled with my requirements, leaving no room for expansion.

                                                                 

                                                                The build quality is no better than a lot of other cases around for more attractive prices.

                                                                 

                                                                Without HDD's, without raid controller, without monitor, keyboard, mouse, multi-card reader, etc. this tier 1 system comes out at around $ 14 K. That is pretty lousy for a system without storage for video editing.

                                                                 

                                                                I fail to see the benefit of the build, design and component quality. The build is nothing more than average, the design is a matter of taste, and components are not included, at least not the relevant ones for this extreme price. The performance of such a system is severly lacking over a single CPU system for a fraction of the cost.

                                                                 

                                                                If I understand you correctly, the premium you pay is not for performance, but for service. Seems like a hefty price-tag. Without proof that shows me wrong, and you seem unwilling to supply that, some / many may think your remarks are not based on facts.

                                                                • 29. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                  Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                                  The build quality is no better than a lot of other cases around for more attractive prices.

                                                                  Says someone who never worked with one?  (By worked, I don't mean "looked at the pictures" or "heard someone say something about it".  I mean, integrated a few of them, supported customers who have them.)

                                                                   

                                                                  How can anyone take you seriously when you say things like this?

                                                                  • 30. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                    Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                                    I fail to see the benefit of the build, design and component quality.

                                                                    But of course you fail to.  You have a fridge-sized case with gazillion of drives that you are very proud of and feel somehow entitled to keep knocking down other platforms and calling them "a waste of money".  That intolerant, absolutist position would make anyone fail, not just you.

                                                                     

                                                                    Z820 (and Z800 before it) have all of the following benefits:

                                                                    • fully tool-less design including drive bays
                                                                    • swappable PSU
                                                                    • fairly compact design
                                                                    • quiet at high loads
                                                                    • on-site support; host of warranty, service and support options
                                                                    • single point of support (drivers, documentation, software downloads - all in the same place)
                                                                    • high resale value
                                                                    • everybody knows what it is and lots of technicians know how to service it - not so with one-off "monsters".

                                                                     

                                                                    I am not asking you to appreciate any or all of the above.  Not even asking you to recognize that some people do and quit calling Tier 1 systems "a waste of money".  Not asking you anything in fact.  Just telling you that this behavior isn't worthy of this forum and I will keep calling you on it.

                                                                     

                                                                    Cheers.

                                                                    • 31. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                      RjL190365 Level 4

                                                                      He was speaking on a "performance-to-cost" ratio, not "quality-to-price" ratio. At any rate, he felt that on his typical workflow, three disks total are nowhere near enough.

                                                                      • 32. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                        Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                                        He was speaking on a "performance-to-cost" ratio, not "quality-to-price" ratio.

                                                                        A: "Hey, that BMW sure looks nice"

                                                                        B: "Not if you think how much it costs and how slow it is 0 to 60 compared to my overclocked turbocharged minivan. Waste of money your BMW is."

                                                                        A: "Wasn't taking about 0-to-60 but anyway... You ever driven a BMW?"

                                                                        B: "Why do I need to drive it to know it's a waste of money?"

                                                                        A: "Um, because it's personal experience that counts, not how fast your van is."

                                                                        • 33. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                          Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                                                          Ok I was staying out of these fray

                                                                           

                                                                          But comparing the HP to a BMW?  I think you have it a little backwards

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          HP= utilitarian very utilitarian more like Volkswagen, wait that’s dell, HP would be more like a Volvo (and I am being nice) but with the MBW price tag

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          Custom= hotrod  think Dodge challenger SRT now that’s an experiance but with Volvo price tag

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          Scott

                                                                          • 34. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                            Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                                            HP= utilitarian very utilitarian more like Volkswagen, wait that’s dell, HP would be more like a Volvo (and I am being nice) but with the MBW price tag

                                                                            Sure, Steven Spielberg, Dreamworks animators, US Army Special Operation Command - they all drive Volvos, longing for those Challengers.

                                                                             

                                                                            The fact that those "Challengers" have no foot in enterprise IT and mission critical apps - is so telling.

                                                                             

                                                                            Customers driving hotrods for mission critical applications... Poor customers.

                                                                            • 35. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                              RjL190365 Level 4

                                                                              I think I can settle part of this:

                                                                               

                                                                              It depends on which country has for alternative systems (if any). Where you're at, the selection of systems that are suitable for video editing tend to be p***-poor: Very few choices anywhere close to the HP's performance point, and what custom systems that do exist over there tend to be both very overpriced and of poor quality/performance at the same time. But here in the U.S., there are lots of choices - and that HP has had a notoriously bad customer service/support quality compared to almost all of the custom builders (even after compensating for the market share). And that's not to mention that here in the U.S., HP systems have had more stability/quality issues than most of the licensed custom builders. (Of course, I do not have enough data on HP workstations to judge, but I do have evidence on its poorer-quality desktop PCs to judge - and I do know that most desktop PCs are poor choices for mission-critical work.)

                                                                               

                                                                              In other words, it is on a market-by-market basis.

                                                                              • 36. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                                Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                                                But here in the U.S., there are lots of choices - and that HP has had a notoriously bad customer service/support quality compared to almost all of the custom builders

                                                                                Are you speaking from experience or based on someone else saying that?  This is not my experience at all, and I've worked with HP fairly closely, on quite a large number of customer support cases, over the past 12-13 years.

                                                                                • 37. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                                  RjL190365 Level 4

                                                                                  From my own experience. A lot of that is due to its horrible consumer desktops and laptops. And like I stated, I do not have enough data on HP's business/workstation support to judge.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                                    Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                                                    From my own experience.

                                                                                    In that case, it'd make sense to explicitly mention that otherwise the statements appear unfounded.  "Notoriously", "here in the US", "almost all" - don't apply to personal experience.

                                                                                    HP has had a notoriously bad customer service/support quality compared to almost all of the custom builders

                                                                                    How can you say "notoriously" based on just personal experience?

                                                                                    here in the U.S., HP systems have had more stability/quality issues than most of the licensed custom builders.

                                                                                    That's a really strong statement implying you have really good stats for both HP systems and "licensed custom builders".  Do you have anything to back this up?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Speaking of "licensed custom builders", who are they?  What kind of licenses do they hold? From what government authority?

                                                                                    I do not have enough data on HP workstations to judge

                                                                                    Oh.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: New Xeon Six Core system Recomendations
                                                                                      RjL190365 Level 4

                                                                                      It seems as though the consumer and business/workstation divisions of HP are two different companies...

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