12 Replies Latest reply on Jan 22, 2013 6:46 AM by JHL4

    Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand

    JHL4

      InDesign, CS6 (8.0.1), Mac OS 10.7.5, 10.6.8

      Extensis Fusion 4 (15.0.5)

       

      Issue: The Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand with the finger pointing to the right when the InDesign file is opened on a different Mac than was used to create the electronic file.

       

      Background: A freelance designer does the initial design, apckages the file, and sends it to an internal workgroup that makes any last minute changes and creates a PDF. The workgroup packages the file (again) and includes a PDF for printing when they send us the Packaged folder. In the PDF, the asterisk appears and prints correctly, but when we open the InDesign file to make any additional changes, the asterisk symbol changes to a a blue hand with the finger pointing to the right.

       

      I noticed that two versions of Zapf Dingbats are used in the file (This is copied from the Instructions that are included in the Packaged folder):

       

      Fonts Packaged

      - Name: ITC Zapf Dingbats Medium; Type: ???, Status: Missing

      - Name: MyriadPro-Black; Type: OpenType Type 1, Status: OK

      - Name: MyriadPro-Bold; Type: OpenType Type 1, Status: OK

      - Name: MyriadPro-Regular; Type: OpenType Type 1, Status: OK

      - Name: MyriadPro-Semibold; Type: OpenType Type 1, Status: OK

      - Name: Times-Roman; Type: TrueType, Status: OK

      - Name: ZapfDingbatsITC; Type: TrueType, Status: OK

       

      When I use Find Font and replace ITC Zapf Dingbats Medium (Type 1 font) with ZapfDingbatsITC (TrueType), the blue hand changes appearance slightly, but does not change correctly to an asterisk.

       

      I have download and read the PDF "PiFontInfo.pdf" from http://www.adobe.com/type/browser/pdfs/PiFontInfo.pdf as well as read

      Why Zapf Dingbats Std Ends Up Pink  http://indesignsecrets.com/why-zapf-dingbats-std-ends-up-pink.php

       

       

      My dilemma is trying to easily explain in layman's terms what is happening with Zapf Dingbats to the workgroup and the initial designer, as well as having them easily understand how to change their InDesign files so that they open and print correctly when it is packaged and sent to us (or any other print provider).

       

      I contacted Adobe, both Chat and Phone Support, and they did not want to address the issue unless I was willing to pay for support since our copy of InDesign is under a volume licensing agreement. I also did not feel that either person I worked with in Adobe Chat or with their Phone Support fully understood the issue, and were just "passing the buck."

       

      Jim

        • 1. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Certainly a complicated subject. Ideally EVERYONE should be standardized on a single version of the font.

           

          Waht I find most confusing, though, in your post is you say that some asterisk characters are marked as being in the Zapf Dingbats font. The astersik key does, in fact, map to the hand with finger pointing right in the T1 and TT versions, but it maps to nothing in the ITC Zapf Dingbats Std Opentype version, so I'm really curiou waht this character is that you think is "correct." Waht do you see if you copy one of those asterisks and paste it into a plain text editor like text edit?

          • 2. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            The color Blue bothers me a bit, too. Is the Asterisk SUPPOSED to be blue? Is there a character style involved here?

            • 3. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
              JHL4 Level 1

              Hi Peter,

               

              There is a paragraph style applied to the text, but no character style applied. It appears that the dingbat (character) is selected individually and then process color blue is applied to it.

               

              What the client wants to see is the asterisk, not the hand.

               

              When I copy the text out of the InDesign file, paste it into Text Edit, and convert it to Plain Text, that character is an asterisk.

               

              Curiously, when we opened their PDF in our version of Acrobat Pro with the Enfocus PitStop plug-in, that character (asterisk) reads as Myriad Pro Regular (this is what the body text in the file is), not Zapf Dingbats. I wonder if there is font substitution happening when the PDF is created and since it is defaulting to a symbol (asterisk) that they expect to see, they do not notice that font substitution has occurred?

               

              The screen capture below is what we see in InDesign:

              Screen Shot 2013-01-21 at 1.27.54 PM.jpg

              • 4. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                Is there a character style applied to the asterisk as a nested style or GREp style, perhaps?

                 

                It certainly does appear that the character was keyed in as an asterisk, and if that's what the client wants to see I would simply run a find/change to change the font on all asterisks that are set in Zapf Dingbats (probably after unifying the dingbats to one version of the font in Find Font). IS it supposed to be blue?

                 

                I can't tell from the screen shot, but my instinct is that there really is a nested style being applied, either inappropriately or the worng style, or it is mis-defined.

                • 5. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
                  JHL4 Level 1

                  Yes, the asterisk is supposed to be blue.

                   

                  I was thinking about nested styles as well, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

                   

                  If you'd like, I can provide a link to my DropBox folder with the packaged folder. Contact me privately [JHL4 at psu dot edu] with your email address and I'll send you the link.

                  • 6. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    I'm sending you a private message through the forum system....

                    • 8. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      OK, I can't find any reason at all for why the PDF and the .indd don't match. The only conclusion I can draw is that the PDF was made from a different iteration or version of the file. I can't see any reason, either, why the dingbat font was used in that position, unless someone was trying to be "creative."

                       

                      That said, there are quite a few things I find lacking in the way this document is constructed, which I'll outline for you off-forum.

                      • 9. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
                        [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                        The previous editor might simply not have noticed the asterisk had, at some time in the past, Zapf Dingbats applied to it.

                         

                        If the document was edited from an earlier version (on another computer etc.) and the reported version of Zapf Dingbats was already missing, the PDF would show what the client asked for: an asterisk. Plus, on every open, a warning that a font was missing (which the client would not see in the PDF), and this asterisk with the familiar standard pink background (again, not visible in the final PDF). So everything is fine & dandy -- according to the client -- until suddenly the document migrates to a system where this version of the font is present. Presto! a hand!

                         

                        The pink background warning is often not noticed by 'designers', who typically prefer to work in Preview mode. However, there is no excuse for ignoring the Missing Fonts message. I'm always very careful to examine why ID tells me this, and for which characters exactly. I also have a custom Preflight, just to check for "missing glyphs".

                         

                        A minor footnote:

                        JHL4 wrote:

                        Issue: The Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand

                         

                        This threw me off for a while, until the following explanation. Clearly, the "blue" was a Red Herring and had nothing to do with the issue, uh, "at hand".

                        • 10. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          Well, the timestamps on the .indd and the PDF in the package folder are the same, and the dingbats fonts are in the Document Fonts folder, but now that I think about it, I do seem to recall that Mac T1 fonts won't load from the Document Fonts folder, and it was the T1 version that was applied. The other place that font was used was in the tabs between the bullets and the text in those lists, and that's showing up as Myraid Pro in the PDF as well, so maybe you've nailed it.

                          • 11. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            Of course that doesn't change the fact that there is no apparent reason, other than the designer seemed to think pointing fingers make good asterisks, why the dingbats font would have been applied in any case. As the OP mentioned, this turns out to have been done entirely through the use of local formatting without benefit of styles.

                            • 12. Re: Zapf Dingbat character * (asterisk) changes to a blue hand
                              JHL4 Level 1

                              As an in-plant service provider, we cannot control who designs the files, how much education they have, or how files are created; we are responsible for printing the file. I posted this issue in order to begin a dialog with the various designers that work on this series of publications in order to avoid this issue in the future. The job was a RUSH, with no proof requested by the client, and we printed the file with pointing fingers (when what they wanted were asterisks). They accepted the job because it was a rush and they requested no proof. As an aside, most of the designers that are working in this particular department are trained for and are creating for the web and other online materials, and print is not a forte with them, thus local formatting. They are unfamilair with style sheets, color spaces beyond RGB, etc. This job was printed digitally on an iGen, so the myriad of colors in the file -- from RGB, Pantone, CMYK mixes, etc. -- were not an issue as such.

                               

                              In this file, the asterisks are what was wanted, NOT the pointing finger. The pointing finger was what was coming up in place of an asterisk (*) in the InDesign file.

                               

                              Jongware -- I believe you you nailed this issue with:

                              If the document was edited from an earlier version (on another computer etc.) and the reported version of Zapf Dingbats was already missing, the PDF would show what the client asked for: an asterisk. Plus, on every open, a warning that a font was missing (which the client would not see in the PDF), and this asterisk with the familiar standard pink background (again, not visible in the final PDF). So everything is fine & dandy -- according to the client -- until suddenly the document migrates to a system where this version of the font is present. Presto! a hand!

                               

                              It does appear to be a case of a T1 version of dingbats being used at one point early in the designing of the file, and no one who is working on the file is taking note of missing font messages or pink boxes showing missing fonts and glyphs. When we open the file, there is no warning of a missing font, and also no pink boxes as a visual clue that something is amiss. Again, Jongware nailed this, since we have that version of the font on our systems, the hand suddenly appears!

                               

                              Thank you Peter and Jongware for taking the time to help dissect this issue. It will not be easy explaining this to the client and non-print savvy designers, but I believe I have a good starting point to open the dialog.