31 Replies Latest reply on Jan 27, 2013 9:34 PM by Jim_Simon

    Does CS6 handle large projects well?

    Christopher Duncan Level 2

      Hey, guys.

       

      I'm currently running CS4 and am starting to consider upgrade options for my editing environment. Quite some time ago (it was before FCP 10) I remember seeing back and forth about FCP vs Premiere. One of the things mentioned was a claim that Premiere didn't handle large projects (e.g. a 90 minute feature film) very well. This, of course, from the FCP guy. CS4 was the latest and greatest at the time. CS6 is a couple of major revs down the line and is also running on a 64 bit architecture so this may not be the case now (I can't say with certainty that it ever was, just repeating what I've read).

       

      Are any of you editing films of this length in CS6 and if so, how's it working for you?

        • 1. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          I just finished a 3 hour project (plus some DVD extras) without any problems.

           

          PP has never really had an issue with larger projects, at least not on the PC side.  If some did have problems, they were likely local issues, not overall issues that everyone would experience.

          • 2. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
            Christopher Duncan Level 2

            So you had a 3 hour sequence in your project? Cool.

             

            If it can handle that it should certainly be able to deal with anything I throw at it.

            • 3. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              This is what I'm saying.

              • 4. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                Christopher Duncan Level 2

                By the way, kinda OT, but does CS6 have the concept of a render farm yet, or is it still the paradigm of firing up AME on the box where you have Premiere installed?

                • 5. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                  lasvideo Level 4

                  As far as I know you stil export using AME. You can do it directly out of PrP which ties PrP up. Or by importing the project into AME which frees up PrP.

                  • 6. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Render farm seems to be a foul word in Adobe's vocabulary, despite many feature requests. No, it is not there and I wonder if it has any priority.

                    • 7. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      Render farm capabilities, along with Adobe Anywhere, would be a good choice for the next major step in PP's evolution, elevating it's usability further in the major post houses.

                      • 9. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        In fact, it may just be Adobe Anywhere that finally allows the implementation of a Render farm, as one of the key aspects of a successful render farm is proper networking.

                        • 10. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                          Christopher Duncan Level 2

                          Was poking around looking at upgrade pricing and just discovered that there is no upgrade path whatsoever for CS4. I wouldn't expect the same discount as CS5, but nothing? Wow.

                          • 11. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            I believe Adobe's upgrade policy did change in December.  That had deals originally going until August of 2012, but they got extended.  Looks like they're over now.

                            • 12. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                              Christopher Duncan Level 2

                              $1800 just for PP and AE. Plus, CS4 people also have to upgrade hardware and OS to move to a 64 bit world, at which point you're spending a fair chunk of change.

                               

                              Avid is still more expensive, but when you're dropping several grand, another grand or two isn't a showstopper. I'm surprised that they have no interest in courting CS4 customers. For this type of upgrade scenario I don't know why they assume they can take the business for granted.

                              • 13. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                Christopher Duncan Level 2

                                > Render farm seems to be a foul word in Adobe's vocabulary, despite many feature requests. No, it is not there and I wonder if it has any priority.

                                 

                                Yeah, that really seems odd. Doesn't seem like it would be rocket science to write. Maybe they figure most PP users don't do anything large enough to merit the effort.

                                • 14. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                  $1800 just for PP and AE.

                                   

                                  At that price, you're better off with the Production Premium suite.

                                   

                                  And there is always the Creative Cloud for $50/month.

                                  • 15. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                    Christopher Duncan Level 2

                                    Yeah, the suite is probably the better option. Either way, ouch. Not very kind to existing customers.

                                     

                                    Wouldn't touch the cloud stuff with somebody else's 10 foot pole. I'm accustomed to buying software. I have no desire to borrow it for a forever monthly fee.

                                    • 16. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                      lasvideo Level 4

                                      I heartily agree with that sentiment 

                                      • 17. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                        If you're not accustomed to upgrading regularly (as in, coming into 6 from 4), I guess I can see that.

                                         

                                        But 'borrowing' actually works out cheaper if you do upgrade often.  And it has the added bonus of getting major new features as soon as they're ready, without waiting (and paying a large sum of money) for a "new version" to be released.

                                        • 18. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                          I think of it more as renting, or leasing, than borrowing. Low up front costs along with getting the new features right away have to be balanced against the large up front cost with few free upgrades but a lower cost longer term.

                                           

                                          Yes, it may prove to be more expensive in the long run. But maybe not.

                                           

                                          The advantage of getting every single program that I could possibly want really helps. I might have trouble justifying Illustrator, or Flash or Acrobat, but they come with the Creative Cloud and I can use them as often or as seldom as I wish.

                                          • 19. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                            Stephen_Spider Level 3

                                            I'm using CS 5.5 at home, and CS 5&6 at work, and I'm happiest with 5.5 out of the three. It will likely last me a good bit in the home office. The next upgrade will have to be to the cloud service I'm sure.

                                            • 20. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                              Christopher Duncan Level 2

                                              I'm actually quite familiar with the subscription model and am a big fan of it when done in the standard manner. I've participated in Microsoft's MSDN and other such resources for decades as a way to keep up to date on my developer tools, latest versions of operating systems, etc. My strenuous objection to Adobe's creative cloud approach is their deviation from the norm.

                                               

                                              With MSDN and pretty much every other subscription based service that's been around, I own all the versions of the software I get through my participation. If I decide not to renew after a few years, all the software I have up to that point is fully licensed and mine to use forever, just as if I had purchased it, shrink wrapped, at a store.

                                               

                                              Not so with the creative cloud plan. If I pay for a couple of years and then decide not to renew, I'm completely stripped of all software and left with absolutetly nothing. In my case, if I stayed with the cloud through, say, CS8 and then stopped my subscription, I'd be bounced back to CS4,and would only have that because I bought it outright and not through the cloud. Of course, I also probably wouldn't be able to open any of the projects I created with 6 through 8.

                                               

                                              As Steve mentioned, this isn't a subscription service. It's a lease, and I personally think it's an extremely bad approach as it's effectively a way of blackmailing customers into paying a fee to Adobe forever. While I'd stop short of calling it unethical, it certainly goes against the grain of standard licensing practices and is not at all in the long term interest of customers. If Adobe ever transitions completely away from the ability to buy software and has the cloud as its only option, I'll immediately either buy either Avid or a Mac. I'm hoping that day never comes.

                                               

                                              I do stay up to date on my MS dev tools, but I also skip or defer upgrades from time to time. Just because a new version comes out doesn't mean I actually need it (Vista was a mess - I kept it on one box because I'm a developer, everything else on the network stayed XP). In the case of CS4, I have a network full of 32 bit boxes. To upgrade to CS5 / 6, I first have to shell out a chunk of change for a video worthy 64 bit box, and then add the cost of the software. Because my money has been spent in other areas (cameras, lighting, etc.) I've had to defer the software upgrade. With a purchased copy of CS4, I can keep working even though I don't upgrade for a couple of years. With the cloud, I'd be screwed and unable to work.

                                               

                                              It's really a shame. Were this an actual, legitimate subscription service, I'd pony up in a heartbeat.

                                              • 21. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                Christopher Duncan Level 2

                                                Stephen,

                                                 

                                                Why does 5.5 rank higher than 6 for you?

                                                • 22. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                  With MSDN and pretty much every other subscription based service that's been around, I own all the versions of the software I get through my participation. If I decide not to renew after a few years, all the software I have up to that point is fully licensed and mine to use forever, just as if I had purchased it, shrink wrapped, at a store.

                                                   

                                                  I'm not familiar with MSDN, but that's not really a 'subscription' service, it's more like financing.  With any subscription, you get the product only for as long as you subscribe.  That is the norm with any "subscription".

                                                   

                                                  As Steve mentioned, this isn't a subscription service. It's a lease

                                                   

                                                  Actually, what you described above is more a lease, making payments with you owning the product outright afterwards.  Adobe's plan really is the very definition of a subscription service.

                                                   

                                                  Now if you really don't like subscription services, if you prefer the leasing model, that's fine.  But it's not fair to criticize Adobe for offering what really is just another option for customers, one that very much follows standard subscription practices.

                                                  • 23. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                    Christopher Duncan Level 2

                                                    You're absolutely correct about the dictionary definition of subscription, and many industries (like magazines and newspapers before they became near extinct) follow that definition closely. However, it's also the name that's been used for ages in the software biz to describe the model I mentioned.

                                                     

                                                    It's actually not a financing thing but rather a significant value add for those willing to spend the money. The total cost of all the versions of products that I get on a subscription like that dwarfs the actual cost of the subscription itself. The price isn't cheap, but it's a good enough deal to make it worthwhile, particularly since the software doesn't turn into vapor as it would with creative cloud.

                                                     

                                                    As for unfair criticism, if I was too harsh I offer a sincere apology. That said, Adobe's approach is non standard for the software biz and in the long run may well cause significant loss of customers (particularly if they end up going with this as thier only method of sales, which I'm willing to bet will eventually happen unless they weigh the risks). While we've wandered a bit OT, I figure the Adobe forums are a good place to voice this criticism in hopes that customer feedback is of value. I know I'm not the only person who feels this way.

                                                     

                                                    Nonetheless, if it's inappropriate to ciriticize, just let me know and I'll keep my mouth shut - no small task! 

                                                    • 24. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                      Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                      Hey guys, you're going off topic. Feel free to start another thread about your concerns about the Creative Cloud.

                                                      • 25. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                        Christopher Duncan Level 2

                                                        Point well taken, Kevin. Will do.

                                                        • 27. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                          Stephen_Spider Level 3

                                                          I rank CS5.5 higher than CS6 for a few reasons. First, Cannon XF and Sony Xdcam codecs were broken when the software was released. Constant glitching during playback. Both of these codecs worked in CS5.X. There was a long wait for a crucial patch for this in the form of the 6.02 update. This was the first time in ten+ years that Adobe left me hanging with broken software for so long.

                                                           

                                                          It is my understanding that many users are still having issues with AVCHD material that function fine in CS5.X

                                                           

                                                          2nd, I didn't appreciate the GUI changes. I, like many others used the Jog and Shuttle interfaces often. While other controls were optional for the source and program monitors, someone one the design team laid down the edict that there shouldn't be transport controls. This sort of falls into an overall pattern of gui and keystroke command changes that I felt were not enhancements, just different, or worse.. neutering. For example, I recently posted about my displeasure with the changes to the three way color corrector. CS5.x I was able target and affect the Video input/output levels of Highlights, Shadows, Midtones separately. So if I wanted to stretch the blacks without affecting midtones or highlights, no problem. From what I can tell thus far, CS6's 3-way CC has only master Video input/output level adjustment. Less useful = neutered.

                                                           

                                                          I won't say that there hasn't been any utility added. However I think a lot of the design thrust was geared to appease or attract users from other NLEs (read Mac/FCP). PC users ended up with a product less functional than CS5.X.

                                                          • 28. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                            I think a lot of the design thrust was geared to appease or attract users from other NLEs (read Mac/FCP).

                                                             

                                                            I hear that.  Seems quite a few changes were not really improvements, just different ways of doing thing to appeal to FCP users.

                                                             

                                                            I still think they should have been the ones who got used to the way PP did things.  Adobe should have planned to attract those users with superior features and performance, not base familiarity.

                                                             

                                                            Having said that, I will argue that there are enough genuine improvements to CS6 that make it very clearly better than 5.5, assuming the media you work with doesn't have any issues.

                                                            • 29. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                              Jon Chappell Level 3

                                                              Jim Simon wrote:

                                                               

                                                              I just finished a 3 hour project (plus some DVD extras) without any problems.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              For me the concern is less about the length of the timeline and more about the number of clips you can import. Has anyone tried it with 1500+ media files?

                                                               

                                                              In Avid each bin is a separate file so the size of a project isn't really a concern. In FCP and Premiere everything is in a single file, however FCP uses a binary format and Premiere uses XML which gives considerably larger file sizes.

                                                              • 30. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                                Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                                                I came close to that in CS3  and it worked OK. However, I find it easier to segment the project into smaller portions. For example, I might have a project for the intro, one for the first act (or in my case, the first day of the class), one for the second act and one for the third act. Then another for the summary, and one for the credits.

                                                                 

                                                                What this does is make it easier for me to find things, and it keeps the files smaller and easier to manage.

                                                                 

                                                                Once I have finished each section, I import all of the main sequences into one new project and put it all together for export.

                                                                 

                                                                Another way to do this is to bring it all into one project, and when working on a sequence, as it gets a decent rough cut, import it into a new project and finish it off there. Then you can import it back in all ready to go. That allows you to work with a bunch of smaller files and still have a huge file as the center of your workflow.

                                                                 

                                                                If you keep your project on a drive by itself, and make sure you have lots of room for auto-backups, you should be OK. As long as the program can save the file easily, without having to deal with fragmented drives, you should be OK. Using a SSD is not a horrible idea for a project of that size. Just make sure you clean off the old auto-backups now and then, and make sure you back up your SSD every day to an external drive. During the backup is a good time to think about deleting the prior day's backups. Or maybe a couple of days back.

                                                                 

                                                                Basically, i am just saying be careful and you will be OK.

                                                                • 31. Re: Does CS6 handle large projects well?
                                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                  Has anyone tried it with 1500+ media files?

                                                                   

                                                                  I've had about 1200+ in previous versions of PP without any difficulty, but not in CS6 yet.