17 Replies Latest reply: Mar 8, 2013 6:52 AM by paul Dunsford RSS

    Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem

    paul Dunsford

      I am capturing live video in a studio situation using PrPro CS6 with the Black Magic Ultra Studio Express from an HDSDI feed from a Panasonic HPX 370 and I am having an intermittent problem. In about 1 and 10 or 20 captures, the capture would start as expected and after a few seconds the capture window freezes. My first thought was that the application crashed but I then let the scene play out, stopped the recording, checked the file and found that the recording is fine with no issues. When I press stop, save dialog lets me save the file but the video signal Capture interface staysfrozen. I then have to close the capture window and reopen it to continue.

       

      This is the first experience for me capturing video in Premiere Pro and I would like to know if anyone has had any issues like this one with the capture feature. I have spoken to Black Magic support and they have not heard of this issue with their hardware and thought the problem lies with CS6.


      MacBook Pro

      17-inch, Late 2011
      Processor 2.4 GHz Intel Core i7
      Memory 16 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
      Software OS X 10.8.2 (12C60)
      Lacie 2TB Thunderbolt

        • 1. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
          ECBowen MVP

          Are you chaining the Blackmagic with the Lacie and if so what order? Do you have any other TB devices connected such as a Apple Display?

           

          Eric
          ADK

          • 2. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
            paul Dunsford Community Member

            Yes.  Just the hard drive and the Blackmagic box with the Blackmagic box at the end since it does not have a loop-through.  There is nothing else connected except the power supply.

            • 3. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
              ECBowen MVP

              The drive first though is likely the problem since the drive would be significantly slower than the Blackmagic device. You may want to look for a TB hub/dock like this:

              http://www.belkin.com/us/thunderbolt

               

              Eric

              ADK

              • 4. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                paul Dunsford Community Member

                I don't realize how that can be the problem since the drive continues to successfully record the file.  I would think that I would have dropped frames or the recording would stop at the point of the interface freeze. Also, I am getting over 154 MB/s write speed which is sufficient for ProRes 1080i.  The Blackmagic tech said the hardware setup I am using should have no issues and is how they designed it (Although I did meantion that it would have been nice to have a second TB port). 

                 

                I'm not sure what the Belkin box will gain me other than usb 3. Isn't the second TB port on the lacie the same as the second port on the Belkin Box?

                 

                Thanks

                • 5. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                  ECBowen MVP

                  Chaining devices as stated by apple, slower devices ahead in the chain will cause the data stream to slow down for devices behind it which will cause issues. This is because the device ahead in the chain has to negotiate the data stream coming grabbing data expected for it and passing on data for others. This process causes latency in the time it takes the data to get down the chain to the devices that require far more data in a given point in time. This is the effect of chaining. However a Hub takes a communication line and then splits it at the controller for the Hub. So the Hub handles the negotiation of data and send the data to the appropriate device. In this design none of the devices are waiting on a device in front to negotiate the data to it. The Hub controller is handling that. This would eliminate the Drive from slowing down the data to the Blackmagic. However the choice is yours as to what to try.


                  Eric

                  ADK

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                    paul Dunsford Community Member

                    Eric,

                     

                    Thanks for the technical explaination and forgive my ignorance on the matter.  Unfortunately, I will still have to daisy chain with the Belkin box because it only has two TB ports, one to connect the computer and one to my devices.  The Blackmagic device will always be at the end of the chain since it only has one TB port.  I haven't had a chance to fully test the system yet and plan on doing some tests using Final Cut Pro and Blackmagic's capture application to see if I run into the same issue.  I'll post my results later in the week.

                     

                    Thanks so much for your help.

                     

                    PD

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                      ECBowen MVP

                      I was thought the Belkin had the main TB port on another side. I will see if I can find anything that can split the TB connection as a Hub.


                      Eric

                      ADK

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                        ECBowen MVP

                        Well after checking it looks like Hub options are not available yet for Thunderbolt beyond what the Belkin has. The symptom you describe where the stream is captured fine but the preview stream is not continuing really describes latency and the video stream not arriving in the time the application expects it.

                         

                        Eric

                        ADK

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                          paul Dunsford Community Member

                          Thanks so much for checking Eric.

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                            paul Dunsford Community Member

                            Update...

                             

                            I finally had some down time to do some testing with other capture software solutions and found that Black Magic's Media express is working well.  So far, I have not had any software interface freezes like I had in the PrPro enviornment.  I have captured several clips as long as 30 minutes without incident. 

                             

                            One strange thing I found was the timecode information is not being read with Quicktime 7 when I capture with PrPro but within PrPro I can see the correct timecode in the captured file.  I also checked the file in FCP and it did not recognize the timecode information that was encoded through PrPro.  I am seeing correct timecode in the BM encoded files.  Does PrPro simply tag the timecode information as the video is encoded somehow?  I am going to test further but I am leaning towards a software bug within PrPro. 

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                              ECBowen MVP

                              Media Express has a better ability to handle latency in the input stream versus Premiere. That is why it's working with MD Express better. The Latency expectation for a capture application would be specific to the app. Timecode in Premiere I believe is default set to use the system generated time versus source.

                               

                              Eric

                              ADK

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                                paul Dunsford Community Member

                                Eric,

                                 

                                On the timecode question, the time code was generated by the source and matched the timecode clock in the camera so is what you are saying PrPro is generating taking the timecode source and using that to generate the timecode information to be used within the application?

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                                  Harm Millaard Community Member

                                  The timecode that the camera recorded is an inherent part of the digital transfer. Adobe does nothing with the timecode as recorded by the camera.

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                                    ECBowen MVP

                                    Yes Harm but the person is Capturing/Digitizing from a live source. I thought Premiere just generates the timecode on a live source from the system versus the source.

                                     

                                    Eric

                                    ADK

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                                      Harm Millaard Community Member

                                      I would guess not, since capturing is simply a digital transfer. When using (in the old days) OL, On Location, and connected over firewire, the same digital transfer was still occurring, using the same digital data that the camera recorded, including the timecode stamps. So nothing was altered by Adobe. It was pure camera data being tranferred.

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                                        paul Dunsford Community Member

                                        Guys...It looks like Pr Pro like FCP can only encode the TC signal into the file if there RS422 connected.  The check box "receive timecode from source"  in the capture preferences needs to be enabled.  I can't confirm this but I susspect that Pr Pro was reading the timecode signal over my SDI cable and simply using that data to generate the timecode within the project.  Why it isn't embeded on the raw quicktime file, I don't know.  PrPro is better than FCP in this instance because it doesn't even see timecode unless RS422 is present.  For now, I will use the Black Magic Media Express for all my capturing needs because it seems to work.

                                         

                                        Thanks to you both for weighing in on this

                                         

                                        PD

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Pro CS6 Capture Problem
                                          paul Dunsford Community Member

                                          I have finally been able to run a complete test with capturing video from a live source as well as tape capture from HD Cam using the Blackmagic Ultra Studio Express and here are my results.

                                           

                                          iMac

                                          Processor  3.4 GHz Intel Core i7

                                          Memory  16 GB 1333 MHz DDR3

                                          Graphics  AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2048 MB

                                          Software  OS X 10.8.2 (12C60)

                                          Lacie 2TB Thunderbolt

                                           

                                          Using Premeire Pro 6.0.2 with the  the AV box either daisy-chained with the hard drive or directly connected to the computer, I was unable to capture the live source or a batch from a tape source without the PrPro capture window freezing.  The software completed the recording but the capture window would freeze and I would have to close and reopen the window in order to capture again.

                                           

                                          While using the Blackmagic Media Express capture software I had no problem capturing, live or batched from an HD cam tape source, either daisy-chained to the hard drive or with each device connected to it's own thunderbolt connection.

                                           

                                          MacBook Pro

                                          17-inch, Late 2011
                                          Processor 2.4 GHz Intel Core i7
                                          Memory 16 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
                                          Software OS X 10.8.2 (12C60)
                                          Lacie 2TB Thunderbolt

                                           

                                          I was able to only test with the devices daisy-chained due to hardware limitations but the results were the same as with the iMac.

                                           

                                          My conclusion is that there is a software bug in Premeire Pro using the capture feature.

                                           

                                          Thanks for all the discussion on this but I would love to hear from someone at Adobe to confirm my conclusions.