13 Replies Latest reply: Feb 1, 2013 8:25 AM by Stan Jones RSS

    glitches

    cfg_2451 Community Member

      Please help me diagnose a problem.

       

      I'm in the process of finishing a DVD. I've made two DVDs already that didn't pass my QA for various reasons. The third disc I thought would be a release candidate. But on playing the disc, I found a couple of interesting glitches.

       

      The first one is a single frame wrong. It looks like it was taken from the video stream 10 or 12 frames away. It really stood out; what I saw in real-time was just a flash of something being wrong (a big continuity break). When I went back and single-framed my way through the video, it was easy to see. It's a full frame, fully formed, but it's in the wrong place.

       

      The second glitch comes a few minutes later. It takes the form of several stutters. When I single-frame my way through the video, I can see that in several places frames repeat.

       

      Sound isn't effected with either glitch. Hmmm.... And isn't sound recorded separately on DVDs?

       

      This morning I went back to PPro to find these problems in the source. Except... these problems aren't in the source. The source is fine. When I single-frame my way through, there are no glitches to be found in either place. And both are in the middle of clips, not at a cut.

       

      So what's the cause? Bad encode from AME? Bad physical DVD? These are Verbatim DVD-Rs, 16x, part of a 50 count cake box. How does one diagnose a problem like this?

        • 1. Re: glitches
          Ann Bens CommunityMVP

          Try it with a disk burned half the speed.

          • 2. Re: glitches
            JSS1138 Community Member

            Dynamic Link to Encore or exported assets out of PP?

            • 3. Re: glitches
              cfg_2451 Community Member

              Jim Simon wrote:

               

              Dynamic Link to Encore or exported assets out of PP?

               

              Dynamic Link.

               

              This spurred me to look at earlier copies -- I found this problem on the third DVD (v0.3) of this project. The first one had menu problems (I had edited a menu in Photoshop and forgot that Encore would renumber my button order and hadn't remembered to check it. Oy.) and I hadn't watched it all the way through. So I went back and looked. This v0.1 disc doesn't show my first problem at all (at least, not within a couple of minutes of video on either side of where it occurs on disc v0.3), but it does show the second one, in the same place on the disc, but somewhat different set of repeat frames.

               

              Repeated frames is what I would expect a disc player to do if it came across a frame it couldn't read. But just because I expect it doesn't mean that's what actually happens. Anyone actually know?

              • 4. Re: glitches
                John T Smith CommunityMVP

                1st, try exporting MPEG2 DVD from PPro instead of Dynamic Link... which sometimes has problems

                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/936216

                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/938108

                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/938549

                Encoding notes http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1094516

                 

                2nd, create an ISO out of Encore and use Imgburn to write the actual disc... at the SLOWEST burn speed possible

                Create an ISO (Encore) or folder on your hard drive (Encore or Premiere Elements) and then use the FREE http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download to write files or folders or ISO to disc for DVD or BluRay (send the author a PayPal donation if you like his program)

                .

                Imgburn will read the ACTUAL disc brand from the disc, which is not always the same as the box label (Memorex is notorious for buying "anything" and putting it inside a Memorex box)

                .

                When you write to disc with Imgburn, use the SLOWEST possible speed setting, so your burner has the best chance to create "good, well formed" laser burn holes... since no DVD player is required to read a burned disc, having a "good" one from a high quality blank will help

                .

                Use Taiyo Yuden single layer or Verbatim Two layer Or Falcon Pro for inkjet printable Two layer

                • 5. Re: glitches
                  cfg_2451 Community Member

                  Went out and bought some more DVD-Rs locally (first batch from Amazon). Both batches of disc show the same problem in the same place. So it's probably not the physical DVDs.

                   

                  Next, used Encore to burn another disc, this time at the slowest speed (2x). Same problems, same places. So it's probably not the physical burning of the disc either.

                   

                  Now exporting directly out of PPro via AME, cutting Encore (and Dynamic Linking) out of the loop. AME is reporting that this transcode (56 minutes of footage, going from 1920x1080 29.97 fps down to 720x480) will take around 8 hours. When I did it through Encore, using AME, it took only two hours. I'm using exactly the same export settings:

                   

                  NTSC, 720x480, 29.97 fps, quality 5.0, progressive

                  VBR, 2 pass, min 1.50, target 7.00, maximum 8,00 Mbps

                  Dolby digital, 320 kbps, 48 kHz

                   

                  With the "use maximum render quality" box checked, and "use previews" box unchecked.

                   

                  So what's the cause of the 4x time increase? Both workflows use AME to do the export, and both are using the same settings to make an MPEG2-DVD. So I would think (oh, I could be way wrong here) that the export would be using the same CODEC to do the work. Yes? If not, what's the difference?

                   

                  I'll post results one way or the other, but since it's scheduled to complete the export at Midnight, I guess it'll be tomorrow before I can burn yet another disc and give it a try.

                  • 6. Re: glitches
                    JSS1138 Community Member

                    I'm using exactly the same export settings:

                     

                    Unlikely.  Premiere Pro, AME and Encore all use the same encoding engine, so something is different.  (The usual suspect is Max Render Quality, which adds significantly to render times.)

                    • 7. Re: glitches
                      cfg_2451 Community Member

                      Jim Simon wrote:

                       

                      I'm using exactly the same export settings:

                       

                      Unlikely.

                       

                      And yet, I'm not lying to ya. It's not that hard to read what it says, write it down, and make those same settings again. But your lack of trust is noted. This little side discussion isn't helping to uncover what's going on here, so it's not interesting. Just sayin'.

                       

                      To redeem this post with something that actually might move this forward, for what it's worth I counted frames and found that the "glitch" frame is a repeat of a frame that occurs around 44 frames previously in the video stream. I can't imagine what would cause a CODEC to replicate a frame that far from its origin. Can a CODEC get dyslexia? Best I've done is switch letters about 8 letters apart, but in the same word, but when I was typing like crazy.

                       

                      And why once out of around 100,500 total frames? That's.... bizarre.

                      • 8. Re: glitches
                        cfg_2451 Community Member

                        Finally got through that eight hour long export operation. Only took three tries. We've had high winds, and I lost power twice. First time at the seven hour mark. Grrrr.....

                         

                        That new transcode, directly from PPro to AME, actually took care of my glitch -- the first problem listed in my original post. The second problem, stuttering due to repeating frames, persists. I have a clue about that though. Seems I get this only after a still image from Photshop. Specifically, in a second or two after such an image is displayed in the timeline. This happens five or more times in my one hour video. Hard to see, but now that I know what I'm looking for I can see more of it. And it's not in the original timeline in PPro. Looks like a possible bug in the CODEC AME is using maybe. IDK. I'll make another post specifically for this and see if anyone knows what it is.

                         

                        This is the fourth DVD of a one hour class I've done for this client, and the first time I've had issues like this. All done with the cs6 suite. I must be hitting some parameters just right to set this off. Odd and frustrating, this is.

                         

                        Thanks all for your help and insights.

                        • 9. Re: glitches
                          John T Smith CommunityMVP

                          >still image from Photshop

                           

                          This may help... or may not, if you are already scaling your pictures

                           

                          Photo Scaling for Video http://forums.adobe.com/thread/450798

                          -Too Large May = Crash http://forums.adobe.com/thread/879967

                          -And another crash report http://forums.adobe.com/thread/973935

                          • 10. Re: glitches
                            cfg_2451 Community Member

                            Should have said that -- the stills are all 1920 x 1080 from Photoshop, so they are exactly the same size as the video frames in the PPro sequence. PPro and AME should treat them as "yet another video frame" when processing. At least, that's the aim.

                            • 11. Re: glitches
                              Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                              What Encore version (re updates)?

                               

                              There have been reports of "random frames," and I don't recall a single situation or fix. I recall something that was fixed by an update, but I don't think this was it. I did not find the threads I was looking for using "random frame" searching this forum. I'd try some other variations and use google.

                               

                              Did not read all the above in detail: the photoshop pix are in Premiere? Or inserted on Encore timelines?

                              • 12. Re: glitches
                                cfg_2451 Community Member

                                Encore cs6 v6.0.2.004 on win7. Stills imported from Pshop to PPro sequence, not added in Encore. Original footage is AVCHD 1080p30. Stills sized in Pshop at 1920 x 1080.

                                 

                                What I'm seeing on the physical DVD is two frames, one right after the other, that are duplicates. Gives the video a slight jerkiness because the duplicate frame isn't half way between the first frame and the third frame like it should be. When it happenes there are usually two or three incidences in close proxmity. Whole thing is over in a second, maybe two. It's just enough to catch the eye and make you think something is wrong, if you're looking for it (like when doing QA on a release candidate). Most people probably wouldn't see it at all. But it's not supposed to happen.

                                 

                                Interestingly, at least to me, is that it's not exactly repeatable. Every time I do a new export, I get a slightly different pattern. That is, different frames are duplicated, sometimes two sets of duplicates, somethimes three or four or five. And the spacing between the duplicates varies. Sometimes just a couple of frames, sometimes five or six or seven frames before the next set of duplicates. All without changing the frames in PPro -- except maybe changing effects on the footage, like tweaking the settings of a three way color corrector effect, but usuaally not even that. The changes seem to be tied directly to making a new export. I got exactly the same pattern on two different DVDs when I made a new disc to fix a menu button routing problem that didn't require a new export.

                                • 13. Re: glitches
                                  Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                  Very odd.

                                   

                                  Since you have nothing better to do (ha, ha!), I'd see if you can reproduce this in a very short version that one of us could test. But it sounds too unpredictable.

                                   

                                  You might file a bug report even if you can't precisely replicate it. No matter what you have done, it shouldn't do this!