13 Replies Latest reply on Jan 30, 2013 11:19 AM by Peter Spier

    Automatic Caption Numbering

    d3wey.com

      Hi Guys

       

      So this one is driving me a little crazy....

       

      I have a 185 page book with 60 chapters. Each chapter is a document. As part of the books panel option and as part of the format of the book I have opted to start each chapter on an odd page leaving a blank page where required... all good.

       

      Now while the title page of the chapter is on a right page, the adjacent blank left page of the previous chapter is to be used to place some images onto it... again no problem.

       

      The issue comes with the image captions. I have created an automated list in the format that shows chapter first then image number second e.g Fig. 1.3. This works great for the most part across a single document but of course because the blank left page is in fact at the END of a chapter it picks up the chapter number from this document not the one that follows it.

       

      My question therefore is can start a chapter on a specific page inside a document (as in not the first page but the last page). I know i can start a section on a specific page but I can't call the section number in the automated list can I??

       

      Any help is of course greatly welcome. I'm sure someone must have had this issue!?

        • 1. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Why not move the blank page to the START of the next chapter?

          • 2. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
            d3wey.com Level 1

            A valid question but the aim is to have all title pages on a right hand page. For that reason I've used the 'start new chapter on odd page' option. There are only a handful of blank pages prior to titles pages which is why it makes sense to fill them with images that correspond to the title pages (the first page of the new chapter). Really i'd love to overide the 'start new chapter on odd page' where needed but I can't seem to find a way of doing it.

             

            Worse case scenario I guess I will have to remove the odd page chapter start option and do that part manually.... not ideal though!

            • 3. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              FIrst off, moving the blank page from the last page of one chapter to the first page of the next chapter does not affect the number of pages or their order or numbering in a Book. The blank pages will carry the same even number they had before and your chapter start page will remain odd. Use the Move Pages command to move the last page to the start of thenext document and check the box to delete pages after moving.

               

              Now what is this "start new chapter on odd page" command? That's a new one for me. I know you can add a keep option to a aparagraph style to start on the next odd page, but I don't know the start new chapter command.

              • 4. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                d3wey.com Level 1

                Well I've given that a go Peter but still no joy.

                 

                I was not clear about the 'start new chapter on odd page' option (sorry about that). What i meant was the Book Page Numbering Options where I have selected the 'continue on next odd page' option with the insert blank page checked.

                 

                This creates the correct method for the book some (not all) of the chapters technically start on a left page (which is in fact the last page of the preceeding document). Moving pages under these conditions doesn't work.

                 

                I've spent most of the day/evening looking for a solution and I really can't find a work around that allows me to do what i need.

                • 5. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  I continue to think that moving the occasional blank page is the way to go. I'd uncheck the add balnk page box, and do the additions manually (and I would start, as you have them now, by inserting at the ends of chapters that have an odd number of pages so that your spreads don't swap sides), then move the page, as I described above. You only need to do this for those chapters that require the blank page, and you may already have all the blanks you need.

                  • 6. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                    d3wey.com Level 1

                    I think there is still an air of confustion here Peter. Probably caused by a clouded explination on my part. I fully agree that for the purpose of getting the pictures to show on the left hand page before the title page that your methord works. The problem is with the automatic figure numbering that I want. When you move a page to the end of a chapter it automatically belongs to that chapter. Say I Chapter 2 has 4 pictures on it, using the automated list I can make the captions work by using the ^H in the auto list. The result will be captions that have Fig 2.1, Fig 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4.... all good. You then reach that final page of the chapter that has been moved from Chapter 3.... this has 2 pictures on it that 'should' belong to chapter 3 and hence Fig 3.1, 3.2. Instead the ^H brings through 2.1, 2.2 (because those pictures are in fact still in chapter 2).

                     

                    I'll keep trying but I don't think it is possible to do without manually captioning. That is unless you can mark that last page of a document as a section and pull through the section number as a prefix in an auto list?

                    • 7. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                      peter minneapolis Level 4

                      Have you considered a cross-reference from the previous chapter's last page to the first page of the new chapter, with a format that captures the chapter number? You'd have to insert it manually on each last page, and either override the master page text frame that contains the chapter number of the previous chapter, or use a based-on master page that substitutes a new text frame for the one that displays the previous chapter's chapter number. You need to do this once for each instance; the cross-reference will maintain itself unless the the chapter sequence is changed.

                       

                      Search Google for terms like "InDesign using mastter pages," "InDesign based-on master," "InDesign using cross-references," without quotes for details.

                       

                       

                      HTH

                       

                       

                      Regards,

                       

                       

                      Peter

                      _______________________

                      Peter Gold

                      KnowHow ProServices

                      • 8. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        I haven't gone through the captioning part of the exercise (and I've never needed or wanted to use automatic numbering in a caption), but I'm quite confident that one moved from Chapter Two to Chapter Three a page no longer carries a section marker from the previous chapter. I suspect you need to replace the caption for those images that were already placed, or perhaps delete the image and caption entirely and place them again.

                        • 9. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                          Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

                          Another thing I would do is combine the 60 documents into 1 document. Life is so much simpler after that. At 185 pages, one InDesign document would be no problem, and all the other odd complexities would become a moot point.

                          • 10. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                            d3wey.com Level 1

                            All good points guys and thank you for your input.

                            Peter G - I'll take a look at the cross-reference idea but I have my suspicions that the chapters will end up changing as the person i'm doing this for is not entirely fixed on the final book content.

                             

                            Peter S - I take your point but with 250+ images in the book and captions/fig. numbers needed for all it just seems to make sense to use auto numbering. That way should the author want to slot one into the book somewhere I don't have to re-write 250 fig. numbers.

                             

                            Michael I'd given that some thought but I don't see how having an entire book on one document would help as a document can only have one chapter.... for that reason I'd be forced to use sections for the actual chapters and hence again I'd not be able to auto number the captions? Likewise if I added a large photo into a chapter it would potentially shift chapter starts to a left page (assuming the 'continue on next odd page' boook option is not available on a single document). All in all it seems uncomfortable not using the book feature for a book?

                             

                            The frustration is that the book function is working flawlessly for everything and if the ageed layout aloud just a blank page before a chapter start (with not pictures and hence no captions/fig. numbers) it would be no problem.

                            • 11. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                              peter minneapolis Level 4

                              d3wey.com wrote:

                               

                              All good points guys and thank you for your input.

                              Peter G - I'll take a look at the cross-reference idea but I have my suspicions that the chapters will end up changing as the person i'm doing this for is not entirely fixed on the final book content.

                              That's the value of x-refs. They update when something relevant changes. In this case, the chapter number that the left-hand page captures will update to whatever number the chapter becomes. However, if the two chapter files are separated in the book so they're no longer sequential, the left-hand page will remember the initial file and its chapter number; you'll have to re-point the cross-reference to the following chapter file, to capture its chapter number.

                               

                               

                              HTH

                               

                               

                              Regards,

                               

                               

                              Peter

                              _______________________

                              Peter Gold

                              KnowHow ProServices

                              • 12. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                                peter minneapolis Level 4

                                d3wey.com wrote:

                                 

                                All good points guys and thank you for your input.

                                Peter G - I'll take a look at the cross-reference idea but I have my suspicions that the chapters will end up changing as the person i'm doing this for is not entirely fixed on the final book content.

                                That's the value of x-refs. They update when something relevant changes. In this case, the chapter number that the left-hand page captures will update to whatever number the chapter becomes. However, if the two chapter files are separated in the book so they're no longer sequential, the left-hand page will remember the initial file and its chapter number; you'll have to re-point the cross-reference to the following chapter file, to capture its chapter number.

                                 

                                 

                                HTH

                                 

                                 

                                Regards,

                                 

                                 

                                Peter

                                _______________________

                                Peter Gold

                                KnowHow ProServices

                                • 13. Re: Automatic Caption Numbering
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  I didn't mean autnumbering wasn't a good idea, just not something I've needed or wanted to do, so I haven't palyed with waht happens when you use it and pages move.