13 Replies Latest reply on Feb 6, 2013 7:35 AM by Peter Spier

    switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding

    phyllisj9 Level 2

      So I have a long document (100+ pages).  It was originally saddle-stitched (but grew too long).  It's set up in facing pages, and now we want to coil-bind it.  Do I need to be concerned about inner bleed?  I have no idea how that's done, but I hear there are ways to pull the spreads apart and add bleed in the gutter.  How necessary is this?  I'm in a time-crunch but want to do a good printing job to the extent possible.

       

      Thanks, Phyllis

        • 1. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
          phyllisj9 Level 2

          I think I'm going to make a last-minute decision to switch to perfect binding.  I'm guessing that wouldn't need an inner bleed, would it?  Or at least not as much as a coil-bound book would need it? 

           

          Any thoughts?  My reason for wanting the coil-binding is because the book is narrow (3.625" W x 8.75" H).  I think it'd be more usable if it were coil-bound, but I also don't think I have the time to figure out the inner bleed.  That, and most of our advertisers ignored the live-matter settings and sent ads which will get punched into by the coil.

           

          Thanks, Phyllis

          • 2. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            The big question to be able to offer good advice is how large is the inside margin now, and is there content that extends into it?

             

            Coil binding is going to chew into the inside margin area, but if nothing is bleeding at the spine now there's no need to add any bleed just because you decide to change the binding method. If there's actual importan content that will get perfed or covered, though, you need to adjust the page so it's outside the binding area. Pretty much the same thing applies to perfect binding. The bleed disappears into the binding, so you may not really need to worry about it, but if the book is thick you may have trouble seeing anything positioned too close to the spine.

            • 3. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
              phyllisj9 Level 2

              Thanks!  Yeah I talked to the printer for a while.  He wanted me to add inner bleed (pull the spreads apart and add a bleed on all sides) if we did the coil binding (the advertisements do have bleeds all around).  But ultimately I realized our advertisers were going to lose info with the coil because they don't follow the live-matter specs.  It's a bummer because I think that was a more usable type of binding for this type of booklet.  But our advertisers ignore the specs in general and trying to get replacement ads is a nightmare.

               

              I opted for the perfect binding, and the printer I used said just leave the file in facing pages.  So I guess it's not as much of an issue for that.  I actually didn't know how to pull the pages apart for the inner bleed (and trying to figure it out at the last minute seemed unwise).  Once I'm freed up, I'm going to try to learn this stuff though!

               

              Thanks, Phyllis

              • 4. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                phyllisj9 Level 2

                I think I read somewhere (in my hasty research of this topic) that there's a script that will pull all the spreads apart.  Know anything about that?  I'd still really need to work in facing pages on this kind of thing (so wouldn't want to just set it up in singles).

                 

                Thanks, Phyllis

                • 5. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                  Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                  Phyllis, perfect bound books require a larger inside margin than saddle stitched books, and with your relatively narrow page, content may get lost into the gutter. Any text or art that crossovers a spread would also require special attention.

                  • 6. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    and the printer I used said just leave the file in facing pages... 

                    that there's a script that will pull all the spreads apart.

                     

                    Your printer is right, there's no need for single pages and an inside bleed with perfect binding. There could be a creep issue but it's up to the imposition software to handle that—it would almost be impossible to correctly adjust for creep in the pagelayout.

                    • 7. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                      phyllisj9 Level 2

                      Thanks all.  I don't have any artwork or anything crossing a spread, and the text pages all have plenty of margin (even if we were coil binding).  It's just some of the single pages are advertisements where the advertiser only allowed about a 1/4 inch margin.  I think that'll be okay with perfect binding though it was going to be a disaster if we used the coil.

                       

                      I do need to learn about adding the inner bleed in case we do some coil binding next time.  I do like the coil for this type of content (this is a program for people to use during an expo -- would be easier if they could bend the books all the way around).

                       

                      Thanks, Phyllis

                      • 8. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Crossovers aren't a problem with wire-o, but art or color that stops at the bleed would be.

                        • 9. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          phyllisj9 wrote:

                           

                          I think I read somewhere (in my hasty research of this topic) that there's a script that will pull all the spreads apart.  Know anything about that? 

                          See InDesignSecrets » Blog Archive » Breaking Pages Apart to Bleed Off a Spine

                           

                          I'm pretty sure the scrip is down inthe comments, but I have direct link: Split spreads scripts

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 11. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                            phyllisj9 Level 2

                            Really glad you posted that script as I ended up having to use it!  The printer reported that the job would be problematic if it were perfect-bound (something about not being able to do a final trim on the covers), so we did go with the coil binding and I added all the inner bleeds.  Good to learn this stuff!  I had to reduce a bunch of advertisements, but we let all the advertisers know (no time to wait for them to come up with revisions).  They'll get over it I guess.  I actually like the coil better for a narrow pocket-sized book anyway.

                             

                            Thanks, Phyllis

                            • 12. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                              phyllisj9 Level 2

                              By the way:  One thing I noticed in using this script is that the page content on all the right-hand pages was shifted slightly (by p6).  I moved everything back, but I'm not sure what caused that as the document still considers itself to be facing pages (so the margins didn't change).  Anyway, no matter.  Still saved a lot of time.  Thanks!

                              • 13. Re: switching from saddle-stitch to coil-binding
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                I don't think I've ever run the script, certainly not recently, so I can't comment on the shifting. You might want to drop Harbs a note though, and see if he has some thought.

                                 

                                I had a similar experience last week when moving pages from one file to another in CS6. All of the content onthe right-hand pages moved to the right .27 inches for no reason at all inthe new file. A real pain.

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