29 Replies Latest reply on Feb 2, 2013 5:52 AM by Bill Gehrke

    What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?

    qzyxya654

      My current computer is an old dell xps 7100

      Phenom x4 830 (Yes I know, I'd love to get an intel 3770k or something but I'm pretty strapped for cash)

      Some tiny amd gpu, not sure which (can use gpu-z if really needed)

      12gb ram

      1 500gb hdd

       

      The machine is really slow and the hard drive is filled up a lot, so I'm thinking of re-installing windows (possibly windows 8 for the faster boots and all) and clearing all of the junk. My other problem is that premiere and after effects are really slow, since its a pretty weak processor with no MPE acceleration. I have around $300 to spend on some upgrades, but I'm not sure which one to get.

      I was thinking of buying a gtx660, since it has 2gb vram (which is better for more complicated projects I think?) and is really fast and a good value for gaming, which I also do. I could also get a gtx 650 and spend the rest on some HDDs for a raid, or maybe an SSD. Or I could buy a gtx 670 or 660 ti if they're really worth it. I haven't needed to use more than 8gb beforehand in projects, so I don't think i'll need to upgrade to like 32gb or anything crazy like that.

       

      My main question is how much would the gpu acceleration accelerate everything? Would I just be bottlenecked by my cpu and hard drive? And If I did a raid array (raid 0), or got a SSD how much would that speed stuff up.

       

      Any help would be greatly appreciated, and sorry if I put this in the wrong forum or something. First post here.

       

       

      PS I read that cs6 is actually slower for exporting some stuff? Should I just use cs5 or cs4? I could just render the few things i need in cs6 first and do the rest in cs5 (like motion tracking and such). Or am i just overcomplicating stuff.

        • 1. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Hi qzy,

           

          Weird name by the way,

           

          With only $ 300 to spend, get some fast conventional disks and continue saving. The extra disk(s) can make a huge difference even on a slow system like yours. Forget about SSD and a new video card for the time being. When you have saved enough (think $ 1500+) you can upgrade to an Ivy Bridge CPU, new mobo, new memory, new video card and you can carry your newly acquired disks to the new system.

          • 2. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
            qzyxya654 Level 1

            Thanks, but I don't think I'm going to want to spend nearly that much on my computer. I'm just a high school student so I don't have nearly enough money to get that. Do you mean I should get another (or a few other) hdds and raid them together, or just get faster hdds and run them normally. Do I need to have the exports and scratch disks and everything on different hard drives?

            And why not get a cheapo gpu? Based on the ppbm5 site, it looks like even any cuda enabled gpu increases the preformance by like 10x. I'm also going to be using this computer for gaming (Obviously if I had money I would buy a seperate build for gaming than editing), so I'd like a better gpu for better graphics preformance in gaming also. I figured say a gtx 560, or a 650 ti would both give better gaming, and allow me to use the mercury playback engine.

             

            Thanks for the super fast reply by the way

            • 3. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
              RjL190365 Level 4

              I agree with Harm. $300 just isn't enough to get even one additional disk if you go with a GeForce GPU that's a worthwhile enough upgrade from your current AMD GPU. You see, GPUs that cost less than $230 are not enough of an improvement over your current GPU to justify their prices. And as Harm's SD DV export testing revealed, a truly single disk setup like yours (with the OS, programs, pagefile, media, projects, media cache and exports all crammed onto the same disk) is at least six times slower than that same system with even one additional disk (with the original single disk used only for the OS, programs and pagefile and the additional disk for everything else).

               

              And with such few disks, forget about RAID 0: While it is faster in exports when the source media and projects are located on another separate disk, it is actually twice as slow as a single disk when it comes to exporting within the same array.

              • 4. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                You have two basic problems:

                 

                1. A weak CPU
                2. Insufficient disks

                 

                and to a lesser degree the gaming stuff installed, and the video card. Points 1 & 2 are the really weak links and you don't have the funds to get a new computer. Getting a new video card will not solve your basic problems, but will deplete all your financial resources. You don't have the means for solving issue 1 either, so the best you can do is solving issue 2.

                • 5. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                  qzyxya654 Level 1

                  Wow that's a surprise, 6x slower? :O

                   

                  So what would be the optimal disk setup? One for OS/program files and then I export to another one? To do that I would just have to set the export location to the other disk? Or would I use it for scratch disks or something?

                  And where would I put the project files?

                   

                  edit: So does the mercury playback engine only really affects anything if you have a good disk setup and a good cpu? You'd think that it would just take some of the strain off of the cpu and let the gpu do some work, letting the cpu be faster.Where did you get that anything under $230 isn't worth it? How would a gtx 660 fare? I could get one for $195, or more preferably for me, get a gtx 650 ti for $130 (plus a free $50 game that i would buy anyways)

                  • 6. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    It would not really help you to spend your very limited resources on the video card.

                     

                    It is like having a 20 year old Beetle with a lot of mileage and spending $ 2K on a new set of wheels. It does not improve performance, it only looks good and you have to start from scratch to save for a new car.

                     

                    I suggest you read the FAQ section, since these questions have been answered numerous times.

                    • 7. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                      RjL190365 Level 4

                      Where did you get that anything under $230 isn't worth it? How would a gtx 660 fare? I could get one for $195, or more preferably for me, get a gtx 650 ti for $130 (plus a free $50 game that i would buy anyways)

                      Here's the deal:

                       

                      The cheaper GPUs will improve the timeline rendering performance. But because these lower-end GeForce GPUs are still on the weak side, the performance in transcodes (both SD MPEG-2 DVD and HD H.264 Blu-ray) will be slower than with higher-end GPUs., And in some systems, those lower-end GPUs will actually be slower in encodes than even the software-only MPE used with your current GPU. That is why I determined that the sub-$230 GeForce GPUs are not worth their asking prices. (And yes, I pointed out the full retail prices, not the discounted street prices, in my previous post.)

                      • 8. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                        lasvideo Level 4

                        I am getting very good performance on all levels with the Nvidia PNY GTX 570.

                        • 9. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                          RjL190365 Level 4

                          That's a different story. The GTX 570 was originally a $350 card (and with only 1.25GB of VRAM, at that). I really meant GPUs that retail for under $230 at introduction, not current street prices.

                          • 10. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                            qzyxya654 Level 1

                            How would a gtx660 do? It's $250 retail I believe. I'll check the FAQ, sorry if its a repost. Or should I just put that money towards some hard drives? If I have one media drive and one system drive would that speed stuff up decently? Or would I need some more?

                            I've heard of people using stuff like old gtx285 and it still speeding stuff up a ton (For example caleb at dslrfilmnoob.com did a test with it and it still went from 30 minutes software only to 11 minutes with mpe. He probably had a better processor and disk setup, but you're saying that it wouldn't help at all.

                            Has anyone here actually had experience with these cheap (super cheap compared to he $1000+setups with quadros and stuff) gpus?

                            • 11. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                              qzyxya654 Level 1

                              Would getting a second hard drive (or an SSD) speed up things like just scrubbing through files on the timeline and getting real time playback? Or would that be on the gpu or cpu? Could someone explain to me what exactly is done on the cpu and what is on the gpu (obviously everything is processed through the cpu, i mean what is limited by the cpu/used the most by the cpu)

                               

                              I just found a 500gb HDD from my old computer. Its probably 5400rpm and not the faster 7200rpm, but would it be of any benefit to me? Like should I use it for a scratch drive, or a raid array or something? What would be the optimal hard drive setup? I am getting the feeling that adding a gpu really won't do anything. Apparently the gpu only helps with rendering/exporting, viewing complicated effects (as long as they're cuda supported), and then changing frame rates/frame size. But if I'm not doing that it will all go on the CPU? Would a faster hard drive/raid/scratch disk help this, or would I just have to wait and like you (Harm) said save up for a better processor?

                              • 12. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                Dave Knarr Level 1

                                hi qzy

                                I have a similar system as your.  Putting in a GT640 video card will help your timeline rendering about 10x over the AMD card you have.  Exporting to mpeg-2 will be about 1/3 faster also.  I have tested that card along with other video cards in the same system.  You can see the results here http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5.htm scroll down to section 9. 

                                 

                                The video card will help as will adding a couple of drives to split the media, cache files, etc. On to different drives.

                                 

                                You should be able to do this for around $300.  It will not make it a high end system but it will preform better.

                                 

                                Dave

                                 

                                UPDATE:  Just to let you know you can get the MSI GT 640 for $79.99 and the Western Digital 1 TB Black drives for $99.99 each at Newegg.com

                                • 13. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                  Dave Knarr Level 1

                                  RjL190365 wrote

                                   

                                  The cheaper GPUs will improve the timeline rendering performance. But because these lower-end GeForce GPUs are still on the weak side, the performance in transcodes (both SD MPEG-2 DVD and HD H.264 Blu-ray) will be slower than with higher-end GPUs., And in some systems, those lower-end GPUs will actually be slower in encodes than even the software-only MPE used with your current GPU. That is why I determined that the sub-$230 GeForce GPUs are not worth their asking prices.

                                  Hi Randal,

                                   

                                  Just wanted to make you aware, that he is on an AMD system.  I have a similar system here and tested several video card with it.

                                   

                                   

                                  ALL of the video cards, when exporting to MPEG-2 and other formats, I saw at least a 20 to 25% speed improvement over using software mode only.

                                   

                                  Also, the timeline rendering was at least 10x faster than software mode.

                                   

                                   

                                  Now I know you run on Intel systems and what you said is probably true for lower end Intel systems.

                                   

                                  HOWEVER, when it comes to AMD, any of the older 4 core and dual systems will benifit from the lower end card such as the GT-640 with DDR3 memory.  I have this card and tested it in my older AMD quad core and saw a nice improvement

                                   

                                  Also, gzy can get two WD 1tb black hard drives and the GT-640 for under $300

                                   

                                   

                                  Just wanted to let you know how things are with the AMD systems.

                                   

                                  Best Regards

                                  David Knarr

                                  Studio 1 Productions

                                  • 14. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    RjL190365 wrote:

                                     

                                    Where did you get that anything under $230 isn't worth it? How would a gtx 660 fare? I could get one for $195, or more preferably for me, get a gtx 650 ti for $130 (plus a free $50 game that i would buy anyways)

                                    . That is why I determined that the sub-$230 GeForce GPUs are not worth their asking prices. (And yes, I pointed out the full retail prices, not the discounted street prices, in my previous post.)

                                    I do not know about that I liked my GTX 660 at $219 from Newegg so much that I bought a second one!

                                    • 15. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                      RjL190365 Level 4

                                      Bill,

                                       

                                      This is because the GTX 660 is on the low end of the REAL "bang for the buck" GPUs. Anything lower than a GTX 660 and the BFTB factor decreases.

                                       

                                      And Dave does have a point about lower-end GeForce GPUs being a better match to systems based on lower-end AMD CPUs. For such a CPU, then, it is a waste of money going with anything higher than a GTX 650 (which is a higher-clocked GT 640 with GDDR5 memory instead of DDR3 memory). If the OP is not going to edit much if any material above typical 1920x1080 HD, with most of that being lower-res clips, then a 1GB or maybe even a 2GB GTX 650 would leave just enough room in that $300 total budget for two additional 1TB 7200 RPM hard drives.

                                      • 16. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                        qzyxya654 Level 1

                                        Yeah I was thinking of getting a gtx 650 ti msi power edition (factory oc'd and with better cooling thats on sale for $130).

                                         

                                        EDIT: god damnit it sold out. I find it this morning (since it had a free borderlands 2 coupon, worth $50 and it sells out by tonight). Wow. My luck :/.

                                         

                                        Is there much of a difference between any of the higher end gpus and lower ones? Like will the number of cuda cores actually affect anything? I saw some benchmarks comparing relaly low end gpus to the gtx 670 and it was only a few seconds faster. Would a gt460 or a gtx650 non ti be better for $80? I found a 650 non ti for $80. I've asked some gamers and they've said the 660 is far better, 50% better than the 650 ti, worth it, but I'm pretty sure that it won't be for this. Wouldn't any even low end gpu be far better than my amd?

                                         

                                        Could someone go more into detail at how i should setup the hard drives and how many I should get? I at the moment have 2 old (probably 5400rpm) 500gb hdds, what should I get?

                                        • 17. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                          RjL190365 Level 4

                                          In your case, with such a slow CPU, then even that $80 GTX 650 non-Ti would leave plenty of room in what's left of the $300 total budget for two 1TB 7200 RPM hard drives (or almost enough for two 2TB Seagate 7200.14 hard drives).

                                           

                                          And even then, I'd only recommend this set of upgrades if you are sure that you're not going to upgrade the CPU/motherboard combo or RAM any time soon.

                                          • 18. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                            qzyxya654 Level 1

                                            Are the 1tb black drives going to be good? I found a couple segate ones with good reviews (from pcpartpicker cheapest per gb) for $70 1tb. Or are the 1tb black ones better?

                                             

                                            And yeah I shoot mostly dslr footage at 720p 60fps actually, some 1080p. I'll shoot some timelapses but I'd be fine with having longer render times for them.

                                            • 19. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                              Dave Knarr Level 1

                                              Hi Qzy

                                               

                                              The WD 1tb Black Drives are very good.  I know that Seagate has 1tb drives cheaper, I didn't recommend them because I have had too many of them fail over the last 2 years.  I guess I am a little gun shy recommending them.

                                               

                                              For  Premiere, there isn't much difference in performance with the GTX650 over the GTX640 on an AMD quad core non-FX cpu.  I just got in the GTX650 today and only did a quick test with it.  If you can get one for under $100, then go for the GTX 650 for game playing.

                                               

                                              Dave

                                              • 20. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                I personally would not go down to the GTX 640 as they are only DDR3 RAM you have to go to at least the GTX 650 series to get the much faster GDDR5 video RAM

                                                • 21. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                  qzyxya654 Level 1

                                                  Alright. I could get a 650 ti for $130 ish, 560 for $140, or a 650 non ti for $80. I heard the 500 series is better for gpu computing, is that true for premiere?

                                                   

                                                  I don't think i'm going to be upgrading my mobo and anything like that since it'm just replaceing components from my stock case with stock (crappy) fans and crappy psu. I'd get a whole new build if I were to replace the cpu and motherboard.

                                                  • 22. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                    Dave Knarr Level 1

                                                    For Premiere the GTX650 Ti will be approx. 15%  faster than the 560, at least in the tests I have done. 

                                                     

                                                    The GTX560 has 384 cuda cores, 320 memory interface width, 128.2 GB/s memory bandwidth.  Requires a 450 w power supply.

                                                     

                                                    The GTX 650 Ti has 768 cuda cores, 128 bit memory interface width, 86.4 GB/s memory bandwidth and requires a 400 w power supply.

                                                     

                                                    Okay in real word tests with a AMD quad core system, they provided about the same perfomance with the GTX 650 Ti being about 10% faster.

                                                     

                                                    As far as the GT 640 goes, I have found the GTX 640 with DDR3 memory was slightly faster than a GT440 with DDR5 memory.


                                                    Dave

                                                    • 23. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                      RjL190365 Level 4

                                                      For Premiere the GTX650 Ti will be approx. 15%  faster than the 560, at least in the tests I have done.

                                                       

                                                      The GTX560 has 384 cuda cores, 320 memory interface width, 128.2 GB/s memory bandwidth.  Requires a 450 w power supply.

                                                       

                                                      The GTX 650 Ti has 768 cuda cores, 128 bit memory interface width, 86.4 GB/s memory bandwidth and requires a 400 w power supply.

                                                       

                                                      Okay in real word tests with a AMD quad core system, they provided about the same perfomance with the GTX 650 Ti being about 10% faster.

                                                       

                                                      As far as the GT 640 goes, I have found the GTX 640 with DDR3 memory was slightly faster than a GT440 with DDR5 memory.


                                                      Dave

                                                       

                                                      Two small corrections, Dave:

                                                       

                                                      The non-Ti GTX 560 actually has only 336 CUDA cores, not 384 (that belongs to the GTX 560 Ti). Also, the GF114-derived GeForce GPUs have only a 256-bit memory interface width, not a 320-bit memory interface width. However, the 128.2 GB/s memory bandwidth is correct for a reference GTX 560 (Ti or non-Ti).

                                                       

                                                      On the other hand, the GTX 650 does have 384 CUDA cores (same number as the GT 640 since both are based on the same GK107 core). But it runs at a slightly higher clock speed, has a 128-bit memory interface width and 80 GB/s memory bandwidth (versus 28.5 GB/s memory bandwidth for the GT 640).

                                                       

                                                      In any case, the GTX 560 non-Ti is definitely holding back my i5-2400 auxiliary editing rig.

                                                      • 24. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                        qzyxya654 Level 1

                                                        Just saw that the  650 non ti only has like half the cuda cores as the ti version. How much of a performance increase would the 660 be? I'd rather have it for the gaming preformance and being able to SLI it later on. Would the 2gb and bigger memory bandwith (192 vs 128bit) matter?

                                                        How did the gt640 compare to the 560 and the 650 ti?

                                                        • 25. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                          Dave Knarr Level 1

                                                           

                                                          Hi Randal,

                                                           

                                                          You are absolutely correct.  I was getting the specs off the data sheet I have here and it was for the OEM version of the GTX 560 which has higher specs. I have so many video cards here, I guess I need to sort them out as OEM and non-OEM cards and keep them stored in different rooms.   lol.

                                                          As far as the GT 640, on an AMD system quad core, it did produce faster times than the GT440, even though the GT440  has a wider memory bandwidth.   That one is strange.  HOWEVER, on an Intel quad core, the GT 640 was slower.  Go figure.

                                                          Right now I am running tests with a GTX650 and a GTX 650 Ti.   So far the GTX 650 Ti is better than the GTX650 for rendering.  Even though they are both 128 bit cards, they seem to work well in an AMD system.

                                                          As far as the GTX 560 non Ti holding back your system, I can see that.  I am just finishing up building a new animation rendering system based on the AMD FX-6300 chip, so I am lookng forward to testing the various video cards I have here with it.   It was a budget build system, as I pulled the HD's, DVD drive, keyboard and mouse from an old system.  It is NOT being used as a Premiere editing system, just for rendering animations with ProAnimator, Lightwave and a few other programs.  But, I will use it to test video cards with.

                                                          Dave

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          RjL190365 wrote:

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Two small corrections, Dave:

                                                           

                                                          The non-Ti GTX 560 actually has only 336 CUDA cores, not 384 (that belongs to the GTX 560 Ti). Also, the GF114-derived GeForce GPUs have only a 256-bit memory interface width, not a 320-bit memory interface width. However, the 128.2 GB/s memory bandwidth is correct for a reference GTX 560 (Ti or non-Ti).

                                                           

                                                          On the other hand, the GTX 650 does have 384 CUDA cores (same number as the GT 640 since both are based on the same GK107 core). But it runs at a slightly higher clock speed, has a 128-bit memory interface width and 80 GB/s memory bandwidth (versus 28.5 GB/s memory bandwidth for the GT 640).

                                                           

                                                          In any case, the GTX 560 non-Ti is definitely holding back my i5-2400 auxiliary editing rig.

                                                          • 26. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                            RjL190365 Level 4

                                                            Unfortunately, neither of the GTX 650 series GPUs is SLI capable at all. You will have to spend the extra for a GTX 660 just to even get SLI capability at all with a GeForce 600 series GPU.

                                                            • 27. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                              RjL190365 Level 4

                                                              Dave Knarr wrote:

                                                               

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Hi Randal,

                                                               

                                                              You are absolutely correct.  I was getting the specs off the data sheet I have here and it was for the OEM version of the GTX 560 which has higher specs. I have so many video cards here, I guess I need to sort them out as OEM and non-OEM cards and keep them stored in different rooms.   lol.

                                                              As far as the GT 640, on an AMD system quad core, it did produce faster times than the GT440, even though the GT440  has a wider memory bandwidth.   That one is strange.  HOWEVER, on an Intel quad core, the GT 640 was slower.  Go figure.

                                                              Right now I am running tests with a GTX650 and a GTX 650 Ti.   So far the GTX 650 Ti is better than the GTX650 for rendering.  Even though they are both 128 bit cards, they seem to work well in an AMD system.

                                                              As far as the GTX 560 non Ti holding back your system, I can see that.  I am just finishing up building a new animation rendering system based on the AMD FX-6300 chip, so I am lookng forward to testing the various video cards I have here with it.   It was a budget build system, as I pulled the HD's, DVD drive, keyboard and mouse from an old system.  It is NOT being used as a Premiere editing system, just for rendering animations with ProAnimator, Lightwave and a few other programs.  But, I will use it to test video cards with.

                                                              Dave

                                                               

                                                              Actually, on that i7-920 system you tested, the GT 640 is still slightly faster than the GT 440; it's just that the difference in the scores between the two is narrower than on the quad-core AMD system you used for the main testing.

                                                              • 28. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                                qzyxya654 Level 1

                                                                But do you know if the mercury playback engine can actually take advantage of SLI? I remember reading in a thread somethwere that it can only use one gpu at a time. They had dual gtx690s I believe (or something else crazily expensive).

                                                                I kind of want to just get the gtx660 since it will be so much better in gaming and for stuff like blender (I also do a bunch of 3d work, but not as important as the actual editing).

                                                                 

                                                                I'd really appreciate it if somebody would go into detail about what disk setup I should get? Which things need to be on seperate drives (or, which benefit from it). If I got a SSD and a gtx660, That would be my ideal setup for gaming, but I don't know about editing. Would one extra drive speed stuff up considerably?

                                                                 

                                                                BTW I can put in a slow older 5400rpm 500gb drive from an older computer, possibly as a place to store exports or something (again i'm not sure if it would be best as exports, previews, project files/media, exports or scratch drive or something else). Would that be good?

                                                                • 29. Re: What GPU to get for CS6 + Are SSDs worth it for editing?
                                                                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  SLI connected GPU's actually cause problems with Premiere, you have to disconnect them to use Premiere.

                                                                   

                                                                  I  would suggest you get an external box for the drive so it does not have to be connected all the time and just use it to archive old projects.

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