6 Replies Latest reply on Feb 27, 2013 4:13 PM by John Dunning

    Fireworks to Edge Reflow?

    FLYBOY

      I know Adobe don't like Fireworks but I'm hoping that they will have a workflow from FW6 to Edge Reflow. Is there any info on this?

       

      Photoshop is great for image editing but it sucks real hard for web and mobile design, I just can't use it for that sort of work. I still find it mid-boggling how many people have FW installed and yet use PS for all their web and mobile design work. Unbelievable.

        • 1. Re: Fireworks to Edge Reflow?
          ninotindultat Level 1

          + 2 and many others expencting this

          Hopefully yes, as well as many other improvements! We need them.

          • 2. Re: Fireworks to Edge Reflow?
            John Dunning

            How would you imagine the Fw to Edge Reflow process working?  I've thought about creating an extension that would export to a .rflw file, but I'm not sure how useful it would be.  Would you want to create the text blocks and images in Fw, then have them appear in Rf?  Would you want to set up different media query layouts in Fw and then export to Rf? 

             

            I'm wondering if it would be better to just do a smarter HTML output from Fw that would include the CSS media queries.

            • 3. Re: Fireworks to Edge Reflow?
              FLYBOY Level 1

              Hi John, I agree that a FW to ER export isn't the answer to the current set of workflow bottlenecks but it would be the minimum I would expect Adobe to do ie. not rely on FW enthusiasts like yourself to write one...

               

              My current workflow is:

               

              1. Design in FW
              2. On approval, slice graphics and export them
              3. Build page structures in DW DIV by DIV including required CSS (sometimes I might start with an existing HTML page that is similar to what I need)
              4. Load into CMS

               

              The pain point for me is the HTML/CSS creation step in that I have to recreate the entire FW layout in DW using HTML/CSS. The current FW HTML/CSS output is not even close to being usable in my opinion and attempting to make it so requires you to build your FW layout in a particular way which ends up being a waste of time anyway. Your FW page IS the layout so I think the ulimate outcome is for FW to be able to switch into HTML mode where it acts/is like DW/ER. Just like in DW, all your structure and page elements are controlled by CSS now, you'd have a code/split view and all the other. Done properly, I'd never use DW again, which would be aproblem for Adobe. It would also be a potential problem for PS as FW would attract more users in the web/mobile space and I doubt Adobe would want that either.

               

              FW was built for creating web graphics and layouts and it has no peer in this regard. Strip out all the crap from FW that people never use for creating web layouts (I'd guess at least 50% of it) and insert the really useful features like HTML mode and media queries a la ER. Now that would be the ultimate web/mobile app. Chances of that happening? Zero, and I'm an optimist!

              • 4. Re: Fireworks to Edge Reflow?
                John Dunning Level 1

                "The current FW HTML/CSS output is not even close to being usable in my opinion and attempting to make it so requires you to build your FW layout in a particular way"

                 

                The output is bad, but it doesn't have to be, so I'm wondering which steps in building the FW layout in a particular way are most onerous.  If you had to put all the elements you want to appear in a div together in their own sublayer, would that be too bad?  What about naming elements in a particular way to specify how they get output?  What if you had to use a special div auto shape instead of a rectangle to draw backgrounds and things?

                 

                "the ulimate outcome is for FW to be able to switch into HTML mode where it acts/is like DW/ER"

                 

                That would require rebuilding it from the ground up, but I also believe that a graphics app built on an HTML renderer is the future, since you get layout reflows and rich styling for free.  Reflow is nowhere to having sufficient tools for even a very basic drawing app (not that that's what it's trying to be right now).

                • 5. Re: Fireworks to Edge Reflow?
                  FLYBOY Level 1

                  The output is bad, but it doesn't have to be, so I'm wondering which steps in building the FW layout in a particular way are most onerous.  If you had to put all the elements you want to appear in a div together in their own sublayer, would that be too bad?  What about naming elements in a particular way to specify how they get output?  What if you had to use a special div auto shape instead of a rectangle to draw backgrounds and things?

                   

                  I tried this process with great excitement when FW became able to export CSS-based layouts but the results were terrible so I abandoned it and just went back to producing the layouts as they were required visually. Your ideas are on the right track in terms of setting up the FW page and getting good output (with a better engine). Personally, I don't like to use lots of layers and never use sub-layers (selecting objects on the canvas in FW is so easy), so the sub-layers approach is less appealing but I do like the idea of a DIV auto shape. It would have to act as a container and be able to 'hold' the elements inside it, including other DIVs and possibly tables. I think shapes and text (content) should be styled using FW styles which would be converted into CSS styles (does it already do this? I haven't checked).

                   

                  I think to really test the integrity of this process would require some more thinking and scenario-based documentation, which I would gladly do if you were interested in doing something in this space. I love FW and use it every single day.

                   

                   

                  That would require rebuilding it from the ground up, but I also believe that a graphics app built on an HTML renderer is the future, since you get layout reflows and rich styling for free.  Reflow is nowhere to having sufficient tools for even a very basic drawing app (not that that's what it's trying to be right now).

                   

                  I totally agree re the graphics app on HTML renderer which is why I'm so interested in moving the design and layout process onto a real HTML layer right from the start. This includes interactivity as well eg. rollovers, content flips, sliders etc. etc. ER immediately made me think like this but as you say, it's miles away from it and I don't expect Adobe to go to that place.

                   

                  John, if you're interested in pursuing any of these ideas, I would be delighted to provide input and research into any effort. I am a UI designer/strategist for a web-based CRM/CMS company.

                   

                  Cheers

                   

                  Paul

                  • 6. Re: Fireworks to Edge Reflow?
                    John Dunning Level 1

                    Sure.  Ping me at fw()johndunning com.  I've been thinking of various approaches to improving the HTML output but I haven't built anything yet.